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Jerrys 49

starter stuck on, almost caught fire.

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JERRY;check the selenoid [unsoldered,vibration],motor doesnt turn,check your head lights while attempting to crank[battery connections],still could be back to the starter[armature/brushes],guage showed a charge when it was running?regulator is hooked up correct?sparks and cables are not good,worse if it was longer than brief.nothing can touch nothing and short,big sparks are not good.could be vapor lock,but your motor didnt run,or even crank after you shut it off.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

I had just taken the starter to the shop.. the guy cleaned it up. Everything was fine on it at the shop... Gauge did show charge while I had it running.. regulator is hooked up correctly... I have new CORRECT gauge cables for the battery.. I got rid of the sparking problem...

After I had the car running I turned it off to see if it would start back up. That's the problem now.. When I go to start it up when it's hot, there is nothing. Actually NO sound at all. No motor turning, no starter, nothing. Kind of odd.. Not sure what it could be.

Jerry

1949 Roadmaster

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I had just taken the starter to the shop.. the guy cleaned it up. Everything was fine on it at the shop... Gauge did show charge while I had it running.. regulator is hooked up correctly... I have new CORRECT gauge cables for the battery.. I got rid of the sparking problem...

After I had the car running I turned it off to see if it would start back up. That's the problem now.. When I go to start it up when it's hot, there is nothing. Actually NO sound at all. No motor turning, no starter, nothing. Kind of odd.. Not sure what it could be.

Jerry

1949 Roadmaster

Jerry will it start if you jump 6v to the solenoid or that terminal at the starter relay? An answer to that question will help narrow it down.

Willie

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Haven't had much time if any this week to tinker around on the ol' Buick... This weekend I should be able to attempt to problem solve again, and this time hopefully with GREAT results..

Willie, how exactly would I jump 6v to the above mentioned locations? (ok ok.. everyone laugh now... :) I can take it.. I have a good sense of humor!

Jerry

1949 Roadmaster

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I'm NOT laughing, I too want you to be able to CRUISE, and not thinking the whole time, 'WILL IT START'.......

I am sure you will get to the bottom of this.

I wish you well,

Dale in Indy

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Haven't had much time if any this week to tinker around on the ol' Buick... This weekend I should be able to attempt to problem solve again, and this time hopefully with GREAT results..

Willie, how exactly would I jump 6v to the above mentioned locations? (ok ok.. everyone laugh now... :) I can take it.. I have a good sense of humor!

Jerry

1949 Roadmaster

First use a simple test light from the ground cable of the battery and see if you are getting power from the ignition switch to the switch on the carburetor. One side should have power all the time with the switch in the run position so the light should light. The other wire will have power when you move the throttle and it closes and the starter should then turn. The test light should light only when you work the throttle to start position and the car is not running. Start the car, get it hot, and then do these tests to see if it is a faulty switch on the Carb first.

Wiring is a lot like plumbing. You need to see where you have, and do not have flow. Dandy Dave!

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

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First use a simple test light from the ground cable of the battery and see if you are getting power from the ignition switch to the switch on the carburetor. One side should have power all the time with the switch in the run position so the light should light. The other wire will have power when you move the throttle and it closes and the starter should then turn. The test light should light only when you work the throttle to start position and the car is not running. Start the car, get it hot, and then do these tests to see if it is a faulty switch on the Carb first.

Wiring is a lot like plumbing. You need to see where you have, and do not have flow. Dandy Dave!

OK, this is good detail on the carb switch, however the starter relay could still be bad. To jump the solenoid look at it and you will see 2 connections: one is large with a battery cable attached, the other is smaller and is the signal for everything to work....that is where you jump 6v. This will activate the starter whether the key is on or not. (another jumper to the coil and you have just "hot wired" your first car.:D) This technique bypasses your neutral safety switch, so be sure it is in N or P or you will be chasing a car.:eek:

Willie

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OK, this is good detail on the carb switch, however the starter relay could still be bad. To jump the solenoid look at it and you will see 2 connections: one is large with a battery cable attached, the other is smaller and is the signal for everything to work....that is where you jump 6v. This will activate the starter whether the key is on or not. (another jumper to the coil and you have just "hot wired" your first car.:D) This technique bypasses your neutral safety switch, so be sure it is in N or P or you will be chasing a car.:eek:

Willie

Hey Old Tank,.... Wonder if he s corn fused yet??? This is when the corn your boilin gets fused together by extreme heat while you talkin bout how it.... LOL. :D I really think we need to collaborate and get him though this one step at a time. If the solinoid is jumped out and works every time then all he needs is a push button hid under the dash. Dandy Dave!

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Hey Old Tank,.... Wonder if he s corn fused yet??? This is when the corn your boilin gets fused together by extreme heat while you talkin bout how it.... LOL. :D I really think we need to collaborate and get him though this one step at a time. If the solinoid is jumped out and works every time then all he needs is a push button hid under the dash. Dandy Dave!

I pride myself on being an equal opportunity corn fuser...can't wait for Jerry's next post to see how misguided he is now:D.

Jumping the solenoid establishes that the starter and solenoid works or not. Then we move on to other parts in the system that could be defective: starter vacuum switch, starter relay, voltage regulator, generator...

Willie

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Willie.. I started her up and let her get hot. Turned her off and same situation. SO, I jumped the starter solenoid like you said. The starter motor ran but did not engage the flywheel. Not sure if this is what is supposed to happen. I am going to try and jump the carb switch now..

Jerry

1949 Roadmaster

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Dave.. I hooked up my test light to the carb switch. With the key in the OFF position, only one side lights up. With the key in the ON position, BOTH side light up (with out me even pressing the gas pedal to start her up)..

Give me insight PLEASE! :)

Jerry

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Aaaa haaaa. There is your culprit. it should not light up on both sides without the peddle pressed. Question is, is it adjusted correctly??? Or being back fed from something else??? It could be being backfed from faulty starter connections that are feeding it. Dandy Dave.

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I wonder why is it that a hot engine causing this switch to all of a sudden malfunction?? I jumped the Carb switch as well, and all i got was a "click" when I turned the key only to off or on..

Jerry

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Ok.. so I've been tinkering with the ol Buick again. It wouldn't start still after about 3 hrs. So I grabbed the two wires going to the Carb switch and started moving them around. I noticed (through the frayed and old cloth wiring) that while moving them around I would get a spark. So I held them together while sparking (minimal spark) and boom! She starts right up. Essentially I think I've jumped the Carb switch (with the key in the ON position). So, is my goblin of a problem a defective Carb switch or old wires??

Jerry

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If you have old cloth wire, and you see sparks in a section of that wire that you have to hold together. You definetly have to replace the faulty wire. If it is sparking in the switch, then the switch is either bad, or out of adjustment. If the cloth is brittle on all the wires and breaks apart with some flexing, then it is time for a new wiring harness. Dandy Dave!

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The first thing I did on both my 41 buicks was to disconnect the carb switch in favor of a under dash momentary switch. Also gives you the option of not pressing the pedal to the floor which is desirable in some starting situations.

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Willie.. I started her up and let her get hot. Turned her off and same situation. SO, I jumped the starter solenoid like you said. The starter motor ran but did not engage the flywheel. Not sure if this is what is supposed to happen. I am going to try and jump the carb switch now..

Jerry

1949 Roadmaster

Jerry the solenoid wire/terminal is the smallest on the back of the solenoid. If you inadvertently jumped 6v to the terminal closest to the starter if will spin the starter only. If actually jumping to the small solenoid terminal only spins the starter then the solenoid or starter is defective.

Willie

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Willie.. I jumped 6 volt to the terminal facing the front of the vehicle that has the copper strap connecting it to the starter (not the terminals with wires). This terminal was the one that DOES NOT have the positive battery cable connected to it. Was I supposed to jump 6volt to the small terminal on the back with the wire? If so, those are not different in size.

Jerry

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Dave.. yes pretty much all of my wires are brittle with the exception of the ones under the dash. All the engine wires are crusty. I realize I must buy a new wiring harness, but I wish to buy one made in the original fashion (cloth and braided with bullet terminals already crimped on). YNZ's has one, but will cost me $1000.

If the problem is the carb switch ( i know my wires are old), how would one adjust that? I took it apart last night and I can not see any adjustment area on it. Just a spring which connects the switch to the carb mount..

Jerry

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Was I supposed to jump 6volt to the small terminal on the back with the wire?

Jerry

yes, the smallest wire/terminal. The one to the starter with the strap will spin the starter only.

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Thanks.. I will go out and try this test on the starter... But, I believe both terminals are the same size. If I am correct, then I will try the test on the terminal on the same side as the strap?

Jerry

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Jerry, try to post a picture of the backside of that starter and solenoid.

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Those wires SCARE me........I would encase with sleeves, or GENTLY tape. Picture two looks as thought BARE wires are showing, and could be shorting out. IMO

I wish you well,

Dale in Indy

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