I'm such a Greenhorn......1919 Coupe window mystery solved

[Guest brian j]

Hi. Everytime i look at this car i find something new i didn't know. It makes me realize i'm quite the Greenhorn when it comes to Dodge Brothers cars. I'm thankful for the help you forum members give me, or else it would take me quite a bit longer to get to know this car well. I've been around Ford Model A's before, but these ain't yo average Model A. I'm pleased to tell you....i've solved the 1919 Convertible Coupe rear side window mystery. In one of my other posts, i commented how the window has a strap at the base, and wiggles loosely in the window frame, but it would stop short of being able to lower it. There were a couple of things i noticed that led me to the answer. The window itself has a sort of "reverse" "cat whisker" setup. There is a padded piece applied to the window pane itself, but the window frame channel itself has no "whiskers" or padding. Just bare wood. Looking at the padding i discovered it had become hardened, and had little "give" to it. I'm adding a pics to show what i've found. You'll see the channel, and padding in this pic of the "lowered" window

[Guest brian j]

Continuing..... Because of the stiff window padding, i discovered it was not able to be pushed any distance side to side. You will see in the next pics i discovered an upside down metal "U" channel attached to the base of the window itself. As i wiggled the window up and down, i could see the "U" channel rides on top of a straight piece of sheet steel, but can be lifted off the straight piece manually. Seeing the "U" channel can be lifted off, i tried to push the window to the side to clear the straight piece it sits on, but because of the stiff window padding, it wouldn't go far enough to the side to "clear" the straight piece. So i tried the opposite side window, and lo and behold i was able to clear the straight steel, and lower the window in the channel. (padding was more supple)Here's more pics to see this.....

[Guest brian j]

Continuing....... I also notice the inside window trim was "replaced" on both rear side windows, and is screwed down rather than nailed. The screws imply that the trim is actually a structural part of the window, and performs the role of a "stop", preventing the window from being pulled too far "in". I suspect when they replaced these pieces they MAY have been placed a hair too close to allow the window "U" channel to clear it's straight metal rest. Along with the window padding itself being stiff, the combination of these may be what's preventing the other window from operating correctly. Here's pics of the inside trim.

Edited March 19, 2012 by brian j
addition (see edit history)

[Guest brian j]

To continue on...... I also discovered yesterday a cool setup the way the front side window operates......IT also has the upside down "U" channel at the base of the window frame that rests on a straight metal piece. When you wind the window up.......at the very end of cranking the handle.....the inner cam device that forces the window up or down has a "bend in the end" so at the end, AFTER the "U" channel clears the straight metal piece, it is moved over.... (the base of the window) by the by the bend in the cam guide. That moves the window base "U" channel OUTWARD directly over the straight metal rest. Cranking the handle a bit more drops the window cam in a notch in the channel dropping the window "U" channel directly onto the straight metal, effectively locking the window in place in the fully raised position. What a genius setup. I'm posting pics of the window and the inner door, showing the cam and channel "ramp".

[Guest 1930]

Good to hear Brian, if you have a chance can you post a picture of the rear window down and have a pointer aimed at the deelio that needs to be cleared in order for it to be dropped, I think I have it visualized but a picture would confirm that.

I think there is a possability you may find that the cat whisker that is attached to the window was originally attached to the window framework but over time has maybe come lose from it and bonded to the glass. Just a guess, maybe someone can confirm this.

[R.White]

Hello Brian.

Don't you just Love these cars! Thanks for such a clear explanation - and the photos are great as well. I think you could have been around really old cars all your life and the beauty of them is that there is allways something 'new' to find.

I suppose before everything was made in the same way, everything was, by necessity, made differently. Craftsmanship.

Have you an idea of what material the padding was made from? Could it have been a velvet covered canvas? Also, what do you think would be the best way to soften up these 'cushions' to get them back to working order?

I thought that perhaps the screwed down parts could be adjusted 'just so' by slightly slackening off the screws. Does this make sense to you?

Ray.

Edited March 19, 2012 by R.White (see edit history)

[R.White]

Jason, you make an interesting observation. In my experience, the padding would normally be attached to the timber framework; for no other reason that it is easier to tack it to the wood rather than try bonding it to the glass. I doubt that this was the case here; perhaps there were plans to make the window frames from steel and this would assist the changeover; I am just throwing out ideas because I just don't know.

Ray.

[Guest 1930]

Jason, you make an interesting observation. In my experience, the padding would normally be attached to the timber framework; for no other reason that it is easier to tack it to the wood rather than try bonding it to the glass. I doubt that this was the case here; perhaps there were plans to make the window frames from steel and this would assist the changeover; I am just throwing out ideas because I just don't know.

Ray.

Hi Ray, this particular body ( although there were changes ) was wood frameworked and had been roughly the two prior to this particular year of manufacture I believe.

I am still learning about this particular model so we are all in the same boat I guess

Edited March 19, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest brian j]

I suspect that the reason for the reverse window channel setup is that in the previous years the true "convertible" coupe with removable wood window stanchions may have neccessitated it be done in reverse from a "regular" car. Also to Jason and others; if you click on the pics and enlarge them it shows the "U" channel and straight piece better......it takes a while for the pics to enlarge on my computer, so you might have to wait awhile.