Trucks & Trailers... where to begin?

[RoadsterRich]

Now I have this nice 1930 Chrysler 77 Roadster well under way on restoration. I have started looking for something to tow it with and on (in?). At first I was looking at enclosed trailers and something along the lines of a Dodge 2500 or 3500 truck. Of course as luck would have it, in my search for a truck I ran across a 1966 Chevy Pickup with a 327ci V8 in it. This is smaller than I had assumed I would need, but it sure is a nice truck and it sure would be nice to tow my antique car with an antique truck.<P>I know these are very broad questions and it isn't likely I can get an all comprehensive answer in the space allowed, however any information is most appreciated.<P>What are the characteristics of an acceptable truck for towing a car? I would assume torque is important as would be the suspension, beyond that I'm not sure.<P>What about trailers? What are the pro's and con's of open verses enclosed trailers, and what should one consider when looking for a 'first' trailer. Are aluminum trailers worth the extra expense? Will a good used steel open trailer do the job? How much risk is there between an open and a closed trailer? What would the difference in towing vehicle requirements be for an open verses a closed trailer?<P>Thanks for any information!<P>Rich

[Guest]

Rich ~ Do a search on this forum on trailers & tow vehicles. There have been many extensive discussions on the subject within those threads, and I feel they were loaded with useful information. They go back from recently, to as far back as 18-24 months ago.<P>Those of us who put many hours into those threads probably aren't willing to go through the whole exercise again. However, some of the newer members of this forum may be interested in giving you the benefit of their experience or expert knowledge and advice.. <P>I will tell you this. How you want to protect your car will determine whether you go open or enclosed. That little truck you fell in love with does not have enough engine to pull an enclosed trailer with your Chrysler in it. You might get away with it if you never leave the flatlands of Florida. ~ hvs

[RoadsterRich]

Howard,<P>I sorta guessed a 327 was a tad under powered for the job. As you could tell I was originally looking at modern beefier trucks. Though the whole exercise may have me looking for an older pickup (60's or earlier) with a beefier engine. I certainly do like the looks of them. Well I am off to search the older threads now. I usually search them first, must have been another blonde moment (hey I was born blonde, I may have outgrown the color, but I still live up to my roots! Besides ya'll won't let me get away with calling them 'senior' moments here where I'm considered a "Young" member.)<P>Rich<p>[ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: Roadster Rich ]

[ronbarn]

Rich, hvs has more towing experience than most of us so his responses on previous threads should be read carefully. I believe that matching the trailer and tow vehicle is important. A light short-wheelbase pickup might be fine for a short trailer with a light load, but a larger trailer (enclosed) with a heavy car will start pushing that pickup all over the road. If you are starting with the tow vehicle go for long wheelbase, best brakes possible, large engine with HP and torque - then whatever trailer you select you will be safe.

[RoadsterRich]

Just an FYI the car alone weighs in at just under 3500 pounds according to the owners manual. Other sources list the roadster at just over 3200 pounds.<P>Rich

[Guest]

Look for a truck with a "tow package" : 3/4 or 1 ton, heavy brakes, tranny cooler, large radiator, oil cooler, large motor, beefy transmission and gears in the rear-end that keep the engine in the rpm range that it makes it power in. One with a reese style hitch and a good brake controller would be a bonus. Good luck.

[JohnMyer]

I started towing about 12 years ago, not knowing where to go to get information. I think the advice that HVS and Ron have given you is excellent. Learn all you can before you make a purchase.<P>I started with a used enclosed trailer and a used tow vehicle. I soon found out that neither was what I needed. I have ended with an enclosed trailer, 20' long (but wish I had 22' at times). The 20' trailer is fine for pulling my '31 Chrysler Roadster, but a bit short for my '56 Cadillac. I have a steel trailer and get reasonable mileage with it. If you purchase a new trailer, I recommend a 'bubble' on the front.<P>I have settled on a Dodge Ram 3500 Dually with the Cummins diesel engine. The long wheel base make for easier towing, less side pull when the big rigs pass you. Traveling at speed of 65-70 MPH, I get about 18 MPG w/o a trailer behind me, about 12 MPG with a trailer in tow. I have had the Dodge for a year and a half, and really like its towing ability. The truck came with a towing package with all of the items that I find I need, except for extended mirrors. I have had to add them, and I strongly recommend them for passing other vehicles.

[Guest]

Rich, I will always swear by my Dodge. Its a 95 2500 4x4 with the 8.0L, V10. She has 130k miles and has never given me any grief. I average between 8 - 15 MPG whether I'm loaded or empty. I've got the 4.56 gearset and am running 36" tires (I do quite a bit of off-road recovery). I've pull a 40' 2 car open trailer and can hit the hills all day at 75+ mph with a 9000* load. My buddy has the 5.9 Cummins in the exact same rig, and his fuel economy isn't that much better. If you are not planning to do any "off-highway" traveling, stick with the 2wd version. It will save you gas and increase your towing capacity. A covered trailer will give you protection from the weather and vandals, however it will cost you more and will definitely be a factor with fuel economy.

[Guest]

One additional item to mention regarding the older truck. If you are going to beef it up with a new engine , etc, thats great, you will get alot of attention, however, these new trucks have a lot of creature comforts that make a long pull more comfortable. 4 hours on a newer Dodge vs 4 hours in my ol'66 pickup. This is a no brainer.

[Steve Moskowitz]

The advice to take your time and think thru this decision is a good one. My advice also is to not just think about the car you own today but what you may want to buy in the future! I have been thru too many truck and trailer combinations which I could have avoided with some careful thought.<P>Although, I have towed with a 1/2 ton, I would not reccomend it! 3/4 ton and above will make your life much easier and an enclosed trailer is definitely the way to go if you can afford it. You can usually find some great buys on used trailers from guys like me that screw up and decide they want a new one. Think of the features, width, door height etc. also, make sure you do not try to cheat on your hitch set-up like some folks do. Get equalizer bars, anti-sway stuff etc. your hook-up is important!

[Dynaflash8]

I've had three trucks and two trailers. Only yesterday I towed a 3950 48 Buick from Virginia to Florida. The trailer is a 24-ft Haulmark enclosed. I had a lot of extra stuff including heavy old jackstands in the front of the trailer. The tow vehicle is a '99 GMC 3/4 Suburban with a 454. It got 8.01 on average yesterday running with A/C. It gets about 14.8-16 without the trailer. Some might say "what do you expect?", but if there is something better out there, with the cost of gas today, I'm all ears. The Suburban is okay, but in cruise it will downshift on the least hill, and the ABS brakes stink. Thank god forthe Haulmark brakes. But, a pickup is much less passenger friendly. Personally I don't like a pickup, so for now I'm sticking with what I've got despite the horrible gas mileage.<BR> Make sure you get the load leveling bars with your trailer, and if you don't get a dually truck, get the anti-sway bar. It doesn't stop the semi sway, but it gets 90% of it.<BR> As for the haulmark trailer. Most antiquers get the accessory driver's side door. It helps get in and out of your car when it's inside, but Haulmark does not build the opening close enough to the fender well. So, the bottom of the door is too high for cars like this '48 Buick. I installed two pairs of rough cut 2x6 boards as runners to get the car higher, but it wasn't enough for the '48 Buick. I still couldn't open the drivers door. I made some board "pedistals" for this trip for just under the wheels, but when I get back to VA I'm going to install another set of runners on top of those already there. First I have to be sure my taller, '35 Buck will still go in the door with the second set of boards in place. This is the only problem I've discovered with the Haulmark trailer. Otherwise, it's a nice rig with great brakes. I don't have the bubble. If it would help mileage I wish I had it. <BR> Before this I had a '90 Ford 3/4 pickup with a 351 V8. It wouldn't pull the hat off my head. Sorry wasn't the word for it. It did get a little better gas mileage as it struggled along.<BR> Before that I had a 79 Ford 3/4 pickup with a 460. It got 10 mpg pulling or not, no difference. A/C knocked it back to 9.5. All things considered it was the best puller. A club cab, it was very cumbersome for anything but pulling. <BR> Last Saturday night I talked to a friend who tows for a living. He has a rollback Ford with a Power Stroke Diesel V8 and a Dodge dually pickup with a Cummins diesel 6 that he tows a three car trailer with a fifth wheel setup. He said the Dodge will outpull the Ford.<BR> I guess I'd like to see Dodge come out with a 3/4 enclosed vehicle like the Suburban with a Cummins in it and see Haulmark make the fender wells lower and the side door lower and I'd be happy. Well, it would also be nice if gas was 29.9 cents like when I was in high school too...might as well wish for the sky, huh? <BR> Seriously, with gas prices here in Florida 1.45+ a gallon, mileage becomes important. It was only $1.23 in VA when I left yesterday, but had been going up every day.<P>[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]<p>[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Dynaflash8 ]

[Guest]

Earl ~ You might consider not using cruise when pulling a trailer. That way you control when the trans downshifts and not some electronic device. You know my Suburban and it is about the same as yours, 3/4 ton & 454 but with 4 wheel drive and a '93. I learned very early on that cruise is no good when pulling a heavy load unless you are crossing Kansas, and even then it would downshift if there was a rise in the road at a bridge. <P>Another thing you might consider is not using overdrive when pulling heavy loads. It will raise the RPMs about 400 at similar speeds, and will probably cost you about 1 MPG, but the performance is much better. Ask Joe V what is the best operating procedure for your Suburban & transmission.<BR>He helped me out with that info years back.<P>The new Suburbans have a tow haul mode that eliminates all of the extra shifting and even lets you get away with using cruise in fairly flat country. It's never any good in hilly country. Also you can get an engine of about 500 ci in the new Suburbans. I have a 2001 equipped that way and it pulls a loaded trailer like you are driving a car. Believe it or not, trailing mileage is about 1 MPG better than the old Suburban although mileage when not pulling a trailer is about 1/2 MPG less.<P>If you, like me, prefer the creature comforts of a Suburban, you might consider trading up to the 500 ci while your present Suburban is at the top of its resale value.<P>As for trailer door location, the best way to get them where you want them is to order the trailer, and not buy one off of the lot. That way you can specify exactly what you want and where. My first enclosed gave me the same problems yours gave you. Roadside door too high and not where it needed to be, front to rear. My next trailer was speced by me and everything is perfectly located. ~ hvs

[Ron Green]

I too have a 24' enclosed Haulmark but rather then try to match the special cut in doors to 3 different cars I haul I have found it easier to have a electric winch installed to just pull the cars right up on to the trailer. Can hall any car with no problems.<P>I used to tow a open trailer with a Suburban that had the towing package with a 350 Vortech and 3:73 rear and with a #4000 vehicle it struggled. Now have a Chevy 4 door, 4 wheel drive 1500 (rated 3/4 ton) pick up with the 350 Vortech and 3:73 rear that has no problems except the 8 miles to the gallon when towing everything. The longer wheel base really makes the difference and according to the owners manual has only slighty less towing capacity by a few hundred pounds then a standard cab dually.<P>Get the load and sway bars and you can feel the difference. A enclosed trailer also prevents stone chips and helps you sleep better at night when on the road.

[Ron Green]

hvs, the Suburban I used was about 5 years old and I know from reading that they have made big improvements in them the last few years. I know the big motor would have made a difference however in my pick up the 350 works fine and rides like a caddy. Now I am getting the itch to hook everything up and go somewhere.

[Dynaflash8]

I've known a few people at home in VA who also said that their 350 Vortec would do the job, but after my 351 Ford I just found it hard to believe and I wanted something bigger.<BR>I forgot to mention my '99 Suburban has a 454 Vortec, not the old 454. I will also say that it uses a little oil, which is disheartening. It only has now, after this trip to Florida, 24,800.<BR>This next is a bit off the subject, but today I went to the bank and felt a peculiar thumping like a tire separation. It couldn't be, of course, with 24,800 on the non-recalled Firestones? Wanna bet? It was!! The left rear tire had a bald spot in it about two inches wide and two feet long (part of which was thru the first layer of rubber), while the rest or the tire looked new. Just think, I ran 17 hours yesterday at around 72 mph most of the time, pulling the trailer with the '48 Buick in it. Judy and I are glad to be alive this afternoon! The Firestone dealer said they'll prorate half the price of a new tire, $69 + tax. I said okay and will get the tire in the morning, but I also have the Customer Relations 800 number for Firestone, and I think tomorrow they will, at minimum, hear my opinion about the whole thing and the fact they wouldn't even replace that tire in full. After all, but for the grace of God, our name could be added to that long list of people, both alive and dead, who are suing them.

[Guest]

Earl ~ You lead a charmed life. But then you had your BIG accident about 2 years ago and that fills your quota for a while, doesn't it.<P>What was the size and model name of your bad Firestone. I have Firestones on the Yukon and if they are the same model I might bail out on mine. I tried to order it without Firestones, but you can imagine how far I got on that.<P>Out here NO tire dealer would give me anything for them in trade when I took delivery of the Yukon a year ago. They did offer not to charge me the disposal fee. ~ hvs

[Ron Green]

My friend has a Ford 4 door Centurion dually that has the power stroke and pulls a 52' enclosed trailer and man does that thing pull. But then he is in the restoration business. We took it to Florida last year but that big power stroke and all that clanging kept putting me to sleep. <P>My truck is odd according to the build sheet as it started life as a Chevy Fleetside 2 door and was shipped by GM to the Centurion vehicle factory. There a Silverado rear half was welded together to the front part of the Fleetside to create a 4 door pick up. The truck was all but hand build. Now when I go to order parts they look at me and say the truck does not exist. Luckly enough that I bought it with only 24k miles so the original owner paid the big upfront dollars. <A HREF="http://www.centurionvehicles.com" TARGET=_blank>www.centurionvehicles.com</A>

[Dynaflash8]

The tires are LT245/75R16, load level "E". Since I'm not going to Topeka, and Wisconsin is looking more difficult, the only long hauls left this year are Florida to Hiawassee with the '48 and Montross, VA to Lexington, KY and back with the '39. Maybe next year I'll buy tires on general principles if I don't trade the Suburban. Frankly I'd rather spend the money to buy another old car than to buy another Suburban. This one was supposed to last me until I quit towing myself. <BR>Regarding the man with the Power Stroke V8. My current favorite car painter has a motorhome with that engine. He says it will run rings around Chevrolets in the mountains. Now I'm not saying he is fibbing, but I know he is Ford-predjudiced. He even has a sticker on this Ford pickup that says "Friends don't let Friends drive Chevies". Chevy guys don't jump me, he said that, not me. But, he is really a good body man and painter, so I wouldn't care if he liked Mack trucks. <BR>My old favorite painter is my next door neighbor here in Florida, and he's gonna detail the '48 for Hiawassee, GA, after my new favorite painter did the paint and body work in VA <BR>Finally, that big wreck in VA two years ago wasn't my fault. He got the ticket and I collected, but in Florida the insurance people charge you whether it was your fault or not. My rate from Virginia was doubled here in Florida. No taxes, but auto insurance took up much of those savings. Can't win for losing.

[29 Chandler]

A little off subject, but still relate to towing and Firestones. A few years ago when we got into this hobby we went after our 1929 Chandler, then located in Nebraska. The five of us left California and picked up a U-haul trailer in Nebraska to bring the car home. Other than the bottom of the hitch a few inches off the ground we had no problem. The Explorer has the 4.0 OHV with the towing package. What Ford failed to include were rear springs to handle the weight of the trailer. We took two steps of precaution before we left Nebraska. A set of helper springs for the rear and 50 psi in the rear Firestone tires! We only bottomed out a few times the whole way home. The Explorer ran like a champ up and over the Continental Divide. It was not until after we got home that Firestone anounced the big recall on our Wilderness AT tires. With only 20k on the tires we happily traded them in on a new set of Goodyears!<BR>Needless to say the next time the Chandler leaves the garage on a trailer it will be with a bigger tow vehicle. Even so we have not had any trouble with out '99 Explorer. <BR>Just happy we all got home safely!

[Guest]

Ron ~ My 2001 Yukon XL [GMC's name for Suburban] gets 9 MPG pulling a 4250 # trailer with a 4200# car inside. It is a 3/4 ton, 3.73 rear, 4 wheel drive unit equipped with the 8.1L [496ci] engine. My old 454 got 7-8 MPG pulling the exact same load. The additional cost of the 8.1 vortec was $600.<P>Last year I hauled 10,000 miles with it. Assuming a 2 MPG difference with gas at a very conservative $1.35 a gallon, and nobody bought gas at that price last summer, the <BR>savings amounted to $430. In two years the engine is paid for in gas savings. The power and handling were therefore a free bonus. However, if you are going to use the vehicle very much for straight driving, it is not anywhere near as economical as the smaller engines. It is a specialized vehicle and since I trailer 10-15K miles a year, it suits my purposes. I expect at least 10 years service and by then I will be too old to do that kind of driving anyway. <P>Of course that engine is available in the 3/4 and 1 ton P/U and it comes with tow/haul.<BR>It is really a great combination if you are looking for a specialized heavy load vehicle. ~ hvs

[ply33]

29 Chandler if I understand the news articles I have read on the Ford Explorer/Firestone issue, that 50 PSI in the tires is probably what saved you. Apparently the situation was made much worse by low tire pressure...<P>I am not an expert on towing, but this photo came across my email today. I guess it pays to have a good hitch and safety chains. It might save your bacon.

[Guest Dave Mills]

just bringing to top....

[R W Burgess]

I was just wondering if Roadster Rich bought his 66 Chevy tow truck, or something else along those lines? I'm one of Earl's, Buick flash, back home friends and have been telling him that a Vortec Chevy will pull anywhere he needs to go plus get 20 mph while empty. He won't listen to us old professional truck drivers. Of course, he won't take a ride with me either, something about a rule he has about riding with a nut.

[R W Burgess]

Oh! I guess I got Dynaflash8's wrong too. I keep telling him, I know nothing about Buicks.

[RoadsterRich]

Haven't bought a truck yet...<P>Did pop up to North Carolina to pick up a spare engine. The van I was using to tow a trailer with developed a terrible shimmy on the way back. Checked it a couple of times, could not find anything wrong, drove 700+ miles further on the shimmy to get home. Took the car in to the shop first thing Monday (of course travelling on a rainy weekend.) Seems Firestone strikes again, the tire was seperating. You could only see it visibly from the inside of the tire, once it was demounted. Scary! Not sure of the choice, but it now has new Cooper's on it. And no they were not Wilderness AT tires either.<P>I second Chris' happy to get home safely!<P>Rich

[R W Burgess]

Hey Chris, I wouldn't rule out the older pickup. It would have to be a long bed though to pull an enclosed trailer. You can always put a strong crate motor in it with a new 3.73 rear, save money and still go anywhere in the country. I know guys are saying the new stuff is better, but the lack of big truck & insurance payments go a long way when you're on a tight budget. Wayne

[Dynaflash8]

On this Kentucky trip I had a panic stop in both directions. I've had guys tell me to feel the trailer brakes and others say not to (meaning the trailer brakes go on first). The 99 GMC Suburban has no brakes, at least so as you would know it, but with the trailer tires screaming and the GMC brakes pumping under my foot, it did stop in about three car lenths. The moral of this story is to always leave four car lengths to stop from sixty if you have a Suburban with a 3600 pound car and an enclosed 24-foot Haulmark. It's such a comfortable feeling to feel those trailer brakes apply as the GMC pedal heads for the floor. GMC said, "don't worry, it'll stop before it gets all the way to the floor." I guess I proved them right, but there's a Ford in my future I think.

[R W Burgess]

Hey Dynaflash, I bet it won't be another "gasser"! You really need to let me demonstrate my Chevy pulling your trailer loaded.

[Guest]

Earl ~ Four car lengths is not enough! Try four car <B>AND</B> trailer lengths. In your case, about 192 feet at anything more than city street speeds.<P>Just my opinion ~ hvs<P>PS: I know. You don't always get to pick and plan your stopping situations <p>[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]