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MarkV

Soon to be Collectable Front Wheel Drive Vehicles

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Seems like 64-66 or 72-74 is a cutoff for a lot of people for any vehicle. Next could be from 84-87 you started seeing the last mid to full size rwd 2 doors. Granted you can always turn a 4 door into a 2 door, add HP, and if you get real brave swap a FWD car body onto a RWD setup, etc. Cords and 66-85 GM E bodies are definitely collectible along with the Reatta and Allante. I don't know if performance versions will do much better as original and stock isn't as popular as it used to be, and a lot of the FWD weren't so great performers original in stock.

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Delving back to the 60's- the '66-'70 Toronados. '71-'78's for those that like the Big Ride Toros!

'67-'70 Eldorados. Ditto for the '71-'78's like the Toros.

1993-97 Cadillac STS Northstar (I have a '94- awesome and fast car!) The second gen STS ('98-'04) are pigs. Not at all like the first Gen Northstar STS's.

1993-97 Ford Taurus SHO

1993-97 Cadillac Eldorado Tourinc Coupe (ETC)

1983-87 Pontiac 6000 STE (decent car for the times and a decent effort from Pontiac)

1984 Chrysler Town & Country Convertible (they brought the convert back and were interesting looking).

1987-93 Cadillac Allante (def the Northstar cars)

1988-91? Buick Reatta (can't remember the exact production years. Am I close?)

1995?-2005 Pontiac Bonnevilles/Grand Prix's with the 3800 Supercharged Engine

Collectible automobile did a series a couple of years ago about Collectible 90's cars. The STS and Eldo were on there, as was the Taurus SHO. It also had some RWD's - Firebirds, Mustang, Camaros, etc.. But this thread was specificially for FWD cars. I love the '37 Cords but come on guys, there's been some cool kick butt FWD's made since then!

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There is some truth both ways. Some cars, such as the Reatta and Allante already have a collector following. Aside from that I don't know how many actual FWD cars will be collectible, but Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, and any kind of newer muscle car or more unique vehicle will have a following.

However, cars are simply not viewed in the same light anymore. There isn't the big excitement with all the neighbors gathered around when someone pulls into the driveway or gas station with a new car. It isn't generally viewed as a means of independence anymore. Simply an appliance to get you where you want to go. Now instead of heros, car manufacturers are the enemy. Taking our money as bailouts, and producing gas guzzling unsafe vehicles. Read some of the comments from the general public about GM and Chrysler during the time of the bailouts. Lots of nasty vitriol spewing comments, most of which are untrue, but that is still the perception from the general public. And kids today are not looking out the window checking out what cars go by on Route 66 during the family roadtrip vacation. They are in the back watching DVD's, texting, or playing some video game. So I simpy cannot see something like the average family Honda Accord or minivan reaching the same kind of collectible status of 1957 Chevys or Model T's based on nostalgia. Someone might collect them, but it won't be to the same degree as the 1957 Chevy or Model T were.

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Is it the plastic covered styro bumpers that turns everyone off? No chrome? The computerized 'era'? That your kids or Grandkids have one? What's your daily??? Or your wife's or Husbands? 90 or newer, probably fwd. Even the new awd stuff is based off of the fwd. :'wheels that slip to wheels that grip.'

maybe they're too complicated for some...hopefully not. There are some really cool, fast, sport and family fwd cars. Even minivans that everyone will be kicking themselves for beating later on down the road. Sounds unbelieveable but I remember my Dad telling me stories about how Mickey Mantle rookie cards sounded great in his bike spokes!

I think cars are built nowadays around what people need. Heat isn't an option, it's expected. Radios are standard too.

Edited by dminer (see edit history)

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If the narrow minded views expressed here do not change, this hobby will be left to museums to enjoy.

Not everyone today can afford or has an affection for 57 Chevies and Model T's.

Move with the times or keep your eyes on my Buick Reatta's 1990 FWD driven Taillights.

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However, cars are simply not viewed in the same light anymore. There isn't the big excitement with all the neighbors gathered around when someone pulls into the driveway or gas station with a new car. It isn't generally viewed as a means of independence anymore. Simply an appliance to get you where you want to go. Now instead of heros, car manufacturers are the enemy. Taking our money as bailouts, and producing gas guzzling unsafe vehicles. Read some of the comments from the general public about GM and Chrysler during the time of the bailouts. Lots of nasty vitriol spewing comments, most of which are untrue, but that is still the perception from the general public. And kids today are not looking out the window checking out what cars go by on Route 66 during the family roadtrip vacation. They are in the back watching DVD's, texting, or playing some video game. So I simpy cannot see something like the average family Honda Accord or minivan reaching the same kind of collectible status of 1957 Chevys or Model T's based on nostalgia. Someone might collect them, but it won't be to the same degree as the 1957 Chevy or Model T were.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

My sentiments exactly.

Not everyone today can afford or has an affection for 57 Chevies and Model T's.

Quite true. Sometimes I look at my parents wedding photos and see the cars of the 40's in the pictures. Mostly utilitarian autos. If they knew then what we know now. With that said I still refer to the quote above, the allure of the car, automobile or freedom of the open road are long since gone. Listening to the hum of tires on the highway on a warm summers night is no more. The car today basically is an appliance as suggested. Some cars are about an era and not necessarily the car itself. Many people collect old things from a time when life was a bit simpler. There was no electronic items to fill the hours. Cars had options like heat. It would seem the more modern we get quite a few would prefer the non-modern simplier times. I remember life before MTV. We talked on the phone and played with friends outside. Life was simpler. For the most part I'm inclined to believe the classic car owner generally finds an escape from todays world for a while when driving/working on the car. So, any car from any decade short of the 90's or including some can be that classic car to them. I can say I certainly get lost in my own mind when driving, waxing or fiddling with my 54 Buick.

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Collectible automobile did a series a couple of years ago about Collectible 90's cars. The STS and Eldo were on there, as was the Taurus SHO. It also had some RWD's - Firebirds, Mustang, Camaros, etc.. But this thread was specificially for FWD cars. I love the '37 Cords but come on guys, there's been some cool kick butt FWD's made since then!

What makes a vehicle a desired so called collectible is not solely on speed performance issues. Regardless of what make or what year, styling both inside and out is what can determine whether a given car becomes one revered as worthy of having.

As a personal opinion very few cars produced after 1979 exhibit unique styling either inside or out. Most are about as exciting as watching a mud puddle dry up! Makes no difference whether they are rear wheel, front wheel, or all wheel power trains most are a study in unexciting BLAH. Bean counter styling and engineering!

No one should discount the future maintainability of any of the cars of post 1979 production. One of the joys of owning a car more than 25 years old has been in restoration maintaining a car and given the general increased complexity found in automobiles since 1979 many will avoid them and/or the associated cost of having someone deal with computer issues and/or CV joint issues when front wheel drive. With so many of the cars produced after 1979 having significant numbers of parts produced in other countries there will be a problem with parts support thanks in part to a change in OEM and aftermarket parts distribution systems and dealer inventory practices virtually eliminating those hidden treasure troves of OEM and aftermarket parts that somehow keep showing up for pre 1980 cars. Aftermarket suppliers may or may not jump in to pickup the slack, but probably not considering there are already parts used on 1980-83 cars one might not find for months, if ever.

Cars produced in this country before 1980 were produced to last through the warranty period without repairs or five years with repairs. Cars built after 1980 were built to be crunched after five years or anticipated new car financing period. Thanks to the EPA, we no longer have parts support from the old fashioned "junk" yards. What we have today is auto parts recyclers who remove the most salable parts from salvage cars and scrap the rest, which will also determine who is keeping what cars in the future, front wheel drive or not.

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I'm young, and prefer older cars. I don't think I'd ever have one for a long time, but I think a GM X,J, or W car, Ford EXP/Mercury LN7, Dodge Rampage/Plymouth Scamp, or Dodge Stealth could have some potential. If you want to stay somewhat brand specific in your build though, you basically have to go Mitsubishi motor with Mopar FWD.

Let's just hope the import tuner stuff dies out, so at car shows when they get people to rev their motors it doesn't sound like a popcorn warehouse is on fire.

If FWDs do catch on though, the 3800 will be those cars' 350.

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Cars produced in this country before 1980 were produced to last through the warranty period without repairs or five years with repairs. Cars built after 1980 were built to be crunched after five years or anticipated new car financing period. Thanks to the EPA, we no longer have parts support from the old fashioned "junk" yards. What we have today is auto parts recyclers who remove the most salable parts from salvage cars and scrap the rest, which will also determine who is keeping what cars in the future, front wheel drive or not.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

I would have to agree here. Today's cars are 'throw away cars' in my opinion. I would love to have my 78 Buick Regal back. 231 V6 that never missed a beat well past 100,000 miles.

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If the narrow minded views expressed here do not change, this hobby will be left to museums to enjoy.

Not everyone today can afford or has an affection for 57 Chevies and Model T's.

Move with the times or keep your eyes on my Buick Reatta's 1990 FWD driven Taillights.

I think that the statement, that the likes and dislikes of car people is narrow mindedness, is unfair and incorrect. I stated my preferences as to which cars I prefer. I cannot wrap my head around the idea that cars from the 80s or 90s would interest anyone. To me, they are used cars. To someone else, they are the berries. Good for him. I don't dismiss his tastes , they just don't coincide with mine. It would be the same as someone suggesting that instead of old cars, you begin collecting rocks. I mean, a collection is a collection, isn't it? I'm not going to move with the times if the times are moving in a direction that does not interest me. I'll be on the lookout for your tail lights on the side of the road when your computer packs it in. BTW, where do you buy FWD driven tail lights? Is there a little pulley on them that connects to the half shafts?:D:eek:

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There is some truth that people collect cars and other stuff from their youth. However, there are a lot of people that collect brass era, 1920's, even 1930's era cars. I don't think too many are living that remember brass era cars when they were new, or even 1920's era cars.

It has to be about more than just remembering your youth and nostalgia. The cars have to be interesting too. There are even many low end utilitarian early 1950's cars that can easily be bought for under $10,000 because collectors just generally prefer the flashier mid-late 1950's cars. If you look at mid-late 1970's cars there generally isn't as much interest in them except for muscle cars and to a much lesser degree luxury cars, and convertibles. Even personal luxury coupes that were so popular new don't get as much attention now as collectibles. So I think as time goes on there will be fewer flashy and interesting cars with each passing decade to catch collectors attention. Plus there will be more parts and restoration issues simply because the cars keep getting more complicated. Plus these cars will be competing for collectors dollars along with everthing still around from pre-1979. So some will start collecting those cars instead of cars from their youth just like some collect brass era cars now.

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Many of you have noted how the cars today all look the same. I was reading a article by Jim Richardson in Hemmings Classic Car magazine called Going Out in Style which seems to back up what many of you have said. I got to thinking about that and so I began to look back of the cars of 1930. If you took my grandson and lined up those cars I'm sure he would say most of those cars look alike. If you lined up most of the cars from the late 30's to early 40's I'm sure the answer would be the same. Perfect examples of this era would be a 39 Chevy has a Cadillac ft end and is commonly called the BABY Cadillac, and a 41 Chevy ft end is commonly known as the BABY Buick. Take a look at a 40 Pontiac and a 40 DeSoto. One of the styling cues on the Pontiac is the three hood vents on each side of the hood. The DeSoto also has them in the same place and the same general shape. At a glance the cars could be mistaken for each other. Of the three makes of cars I collect only my beetles (1964 & 1965) really look different from other cars of those years. The beetles styling cues are from 1935-1941. I say 1941 because in 1942 running boards start to go away and pontoon fenders start to extend into the doors. My 69 Pontiac LeMans has a general body appearance of a 69 Chevelle, Olds Cutlass, Buick Skylark in fact the windshields and some canopy trim is shared.

Back to the point, I was also of the opinion that cars today all look the same until about a month ago when I bought a 2012 new car. Before when I saw the model I bought it looked like any other car, and now that I have one I notice cars of my model all the time and can recognize all the different types of cars out there. I think all of this has more to do with Interest in cars than cars looking all the same. Last year I would have thought that statement was nonsense.

D.

Edited by helfen (see edit history)

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Thank God i will be gone for collections like the above,show up,hope so.By no means am i saying the cars are not worthy,most not ,but it is what is is

Edited by old car fan (see edit history)

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Thank God i will be gone for collections like the above,show up,hope so.By no means am i saying the cars are not worthy,most not ,but it is what is is

Which collections??

D.

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There is some truth that people collect cars and other stuff from their youth. However, there are a lot of people that collect brass era, 1920's, even 1930's era cars. I don't think too many are living that remember brass era cars when they were new, or even 1920's era cars.

It has to be about more than just remembering your youth and nostalgia. The cars have to be interesting too. There are even many low end utilitarian early 1950's cars that can easily be bought for under $10,000 because collectors just generally prefer the flashier mid-late 1950's cars. If you look at mid-late 1970's cars there generally isn't as much interest in them except for muscle cars and to a much lesser degree luxury cars, and convertibles. Even personal luxury coupes that were so popular new don't get as much attention now as collectibles. So I think as time goes on there will be fewer flashy and interesting cars with each passing decade to catch collectors attention. Plus there will be more parts and restoration issues simply because the cars keep getting more complicated. Plus these cars will be competing for collectors dollars along with everthing still around from pre-1979. So some will start collecting those cars instead of cars from their youth just like some collect brass era cars now.

You are correct it is much more than just being cars of one's youth, though that is a major factor for those who were of their teen years in the 1950s and 1960s. Those two decades uniquely personified the automobile being a major social factor in everyone's lives. Hanging out at the drive-in burger joint and going from car to car. Going to the drive-in movie, hopefully for a bit of "making out." And who can forget the two week family driving vacations that took a great many to places in the country former generations only dreamed of ever seeing. In the 1970s the country began to change socially and the automobile began to again be somewhat looked upon as basic transportation as in the Model T era. And guess what by the 1980s things had pretty much gone full circle. We once again had automobiles as exciting as a Model T, only no one could work on them.

I have yet to see a variety of 1900 to 1930 cars that one could seriously say "They all look alike." Similar most certainly, but while looking similar it isn't too hard to see some styling differences simply because they ranged from austere basic transportation to ornate examples of artistic expression. All steel bodied cars brought a lot of similarity but even then one could see styling differences. Many of the pre 1930's cars had lavish interiors for their time and most certainly many of the top end 1930s cars had truly lavish interiors including built in bars and that new fangled thing called a radio. Elegance of design and appointments can never be labeled "look alike." We see that coming down from the top to the lesser priced cars of the 1940s and most certainly the cars of the 1950s and 1960s. By the time the 1970s rolled around even the bottom of the line cars had some what lavish interiors and a complement of gadgets. Then 1980 and a race for being the first to produce a horribly blah car. So many were so successful at that they lost their market!

Front wheel drive cars of the 1980s and up will not be unique in their failure or success in being considered desirable in the future by someone. As for me, I'd rather see large ball of belly button lint in the garage than an '80s up front wheel drive car with a lack of unique styling and having a totally blah interior.

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Guest my3buicks

Kind of like the un-unqiue long in the tooth styling of a 2003 Lincoln Town Car - other than being rear wheel drive, would fall in that same description. Belly button lint I wouldn't want to see in my garage lol

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Kind of like the un-unqiue long in the tooth styling of a 2003 Lincoln Town Car - other than being rear wheel drive, would fall in that same description. Belly button lint I wouldn't want to see in my garage lol

We all see you have chosen not to purchase U.S. built cars and have settled for the worst of Blah!:D

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Guest my3buicks

That's OK, when you are sitting on the hill spinning your rear wheels in the deep snow I will waive as I drive buy. I would also bet my Outback has a better consumer report rating than your Lincoln. Oh, and I will also bet I will leave you in the dust at a stoplight with the H6 in the Outback. Being an L L Bean it probably has most of the bells and whisles the Lincoln has also. And the styling can't be any more bland the the Lincolns of that vintage.

When Buick comes back out with the smaller SUV in January, I will more than likely be back in a Buick again.

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)

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Let's not date ourselves too much. There are reasons that cars became commodities for most of the world... because they always were. IMO , young people are attracted to cars that remind them of their youth... just as we were. Why? Because we were young, verile and had our whole lives ahead of us. Those( in most cases) were the best of times. No responsibilities, or fear of pain or illness. Go to your local cruise in. The young folks, in their 20s +, pull up in a Honda, 1990 Mustang or the like. They are proud of their efforts and cherish the friends that they make through the hobby. They are the future of the AACA. Welcome them, complement them on their effort. I got started with a 15 year old used 1964 Fairlane. and after being welcomed to the hobby, discovered prewar and brass era cars and late 40s as well. I was born in 1949. I did not remember riding in my grandpas Hudson at the age of 2. Never the less, I own one today, because the "good old days guys" and commugions never got to me . Sure there were some poor quality cars sold, that's sad, but someone mentioned Cord. The 36-37 Cord had more then its share of issues too. Back to the question: Caddillac Allente and Buick Reatta I personally like. Maybe some 20 year old feels the same way and after joining the AACA becomes interested in a Hudson.

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Well . . . as most of the comments have been as they've been, I'm going to make a suggestion which some might find "counter-culture" in some respects, but it might expand some horizons (in several ways), or at least awareness of one area of the vehicle hobby. That suggestion is to head up to the 32nd Annual Mopar Nationals at National Trails Raceway, east of Columbus, OH on the August 10th or 11th, maybe even stay for the 12th.

This is an all inclusive Mopar hobby event. It regularly attracts over 50K visitors each year. PLUS, it is a full representation of the Mopar hobby. Including their "Young Guns" classes and race classes for all Mopars. Yep, you'll probably find a Dodge Caravan with the factory Turbo 2.2L 4 cyl with racing slicks on the front . And Neon SRT-4s, turbo K-cars running faster than you'd ever expect, plus the expected older and newer drag racers. Even grandmothers holding their grandkids under the Viper tent (observed one year). In other words, ALL generations of Mopar enthusiasts are alive, well, and "playing cars". One year, I watched a high school guy swap out the slicks on the front of his modified Neon for the drag race class it was in, as his father supervised his use of a torque wrench on the lug nuts. Although I didn't see it, his grandfather could have just as easily been there too, watching on and probably remembering the Flathead Plymouth he souped up in his youth. Certainly, there are some there who wouldn't look 1/2 at a fwd car, much less believe that a reasonably stock one could run quick 1/4 mile times and NOT sound like a "madddd weedwhacker".

And then check out the show classes for the Young Guns, too. One year, a high school shop class group did a suicide-door Plymouth Acclaim fwd car. Fully customized, lots of chrome, great workmanship, and something that would turn heads anywhere, even with 4 doors. Obviously, they spent well more than the purchase price of the car on just the things they put in and on that car . . . which started out as a mundane 4-dr fwd sedan. When done, though, it looked awesome and definitely something they were extremely proud to have done . . . although it might not suit the taste of others (due to the base vehicle being what it was). The stock side of the Young Guns show class included the more popular musclecar era cars. The later model fwd class had some of Dodge's fwd performance cars, as the fwd 1992 Daytona IROC R/T coupes with the DOHC Lotus cylinder headed Chrysler Turbo 4cyl, LH car sedans, and some Chrysler Maserati TC coupes. At some time, these cars were "just used cars", but obviously "used cars" that somebody's extremely proud to own and enjoy showing them at shows where they might be appreciated (I suspect the normal weekend cruise event would not be one place, for example).

There might be other single-manufacturer-orientation shows which might be of similar orientations, but compared to the Super Chevy Sundays I've been to, they don't even come close to the total diversity and full model range representation (even trucks) that the Mopar Nats does. Every parts vendor that does Mopar stuff is there, too, plus a full swap meet area. Sunscreen and comfortable shoes/clothes are recommended, too.

I realize that many are not "tuned in" to the Mopar section of the hobby, but you can look at the vehicles and see the people involved with them . . . AND their age diversity . . . in ONE place at the same time . . . everybody with a common thread and interest . . . all enjoying themselves and having fun. If I'd had an older relative that wanted to take me or go with me to the Mopar Nats (if it had existed when I was in high school and was something close by), the age differences between us would not have mattered at all, it would have been more about the experience and what there was to see and learn about AND the cars I was interested in back then (and now). I'm sure that many others would have had similar feelings regardless of the manufacturer involved.

And back then, every one of those cars would have been a "used car" as we would have had NO inkling that anything other than a Model T or A (or similar) or some car you'd see in a museum would ever be "collectible" and "desireable". Even the beloved '55-'57 Chevies were just "used cars"!

I know that some will not pay to go to a Mopar-oriented event, which I understand, but as many have said . . . it's about the people and not the cars, per se. It's an illustration of how multi-generational this hobby can be, IF we let it be that way. Plus illustrating a diversity of vehicles which others might like and be proud to own . . . even if they might lay rubber from the wrong set of wheels or be of a vintage some might not approve of. It's one of those events that I would not have believed (or perceived to be what it was) until I saw it with my own eyes in the bright light of day.

And there there were the events on Bryce Road in Reynoldsburg on Saturday evening!

I might have gotten a little off-subject again, my apologies.

Respectfully,

NTX5467

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That's OK, when you are sitting on the hill spinning your rear wheels in the deep snow I will waive as I drive buy.

With all due respect, I've driven past a good number of fwd cars in snow in my '77 Camaro. My "secret weapon"??? Posi-Traction G80 Limited Slip Differential and radial tires (usually BFG Radial T/As, although I did have two sets of Pirelli P77s when they were out--one set at a time) AND a little bit of driving finesse . . . analog traction and stability control included. But with the snow deeper than 5", it makes a poor snowplow.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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That's OK, when you are sitting on the hill spinning your rear wheels in the deep snow I will waive as I drive buy. I would also bet my Outback has a better consumer report rating than your Lincoln. Oh, and I will also bet I will leave you in the dust at a stoplight with the H6 in the Outback. Being an L L Bean it probably has most of the bells and whisles the Lincoln has also. And the styling can't be any more bland the the Lincolns of that vintage.

When Buick comes back out with the smaller SUV in January, I will more than likely be back in a Buick again.

I've a bit better sense than to attempt to drive in deep snow, but a horse tends to work just fine. Of course the last time there was any deep snow in this part of Texas was around 1824 if I recall my history correctly.

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Jim, the Outback LL Bean is the new Pacer Levy. Take that however you want.

Anyway nice to see another Caddy and Lincoln man in Texas. Where in Texas do you live? My problem is that I like about a dozen other things besides Lincolns and Cadillacs not to mention all the Lincolns and Cadillacs I like.

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I like the Outbacks a lot--I freely admit that I am an old Subaru man. I've been talking with many people about them, and what I want in my next daily driver, etc., and a couple of people have suggested at least taking a look at what "equivalent" US-made vehicles there may be out there. And that's when I discovered the Ford Escape ("front wheel drive" basis architecture too, to go along with this thread theme). Not sure when or if I may end up with one, but happy to see decent Consumer Reports ratings, etc., and also have rented a couple for business trips recently, and have been pleased. Have to keep saving my pennies now and watching those used car ads...

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