Tapedeck solution. 88/89 owners youre gona love this

[Guest Recian]

I have come up with a fix for the tapedeck issue since I cant seem to get a good deck. The idea isnt mine. That credit goes to NCReatta. However i do take credit for modifying his idea, doing the work and coming up with needed equipment.

Needed tools:

Soldering iron

Crimpers/strippers

Drill

Center-punch

Drill bits - 21/64" and 11/64 (or 3/16 if 11/64 is not avail.)

Jig saw, (with hack saw bits) or any cutting tool. I used a pheumatic cut-off wheel.

Needed parts:

1/8" Aux input (female) from Radio shack. Available at the same section as the resistors and capacitors. Labeled as a "Phone Jack 1/8"

Cable male to male about 3' to connect ipod or mp3 player to above listed jack

3 male and 3 female spades, red or blue both work. Red fits better

A solid piece of preferably metal. Its easier to work with. About 12" by 12" and between 1/8-1/4" thick. Can be cut from a hood or trunklid.

Wire 18-20ga. 3 colors would be easier to work with.

Let's get started:

First, remove your old tapedeck from the car, 4x 9/32" bolts. Then take your piece of metal and determine first which side will be inside (not seen) and outside (always seen) I used the inside of my trunklid that had the sticky spots where it was welded to the skeleton as my inside. Lay the tapedeck face-down on the back side and trace it with a sharpie. Cut the plate to match the tapedeck. Remember, measure twice cut once. Once you've cut it lay it to the tapedeck and trim it until it's matched the dimensions of the tapedeck. It can varry over or under about 1/8-1/4". After you've done that you should have this:

Now lay the deck back on the rear of your plate. Use the sharpie and mark the holes for screwing the tapedeck down. Then use a center punch and the listed 11/64 drill bit and drill out the screw-down holes. From there you should have this.

At this point put it back in the car and make sure it screws down and fits. If it's to your satisfaction re-install the trim cover and shapie the corners of the trim so you'll know what part of the trim cover wont be seen. (like where the screw holes are)

From there you know where to drill the aux port. I recommend the left side since the shifter sits more towards the right. Dont get mixed up by this point. The left side is the side (Looking at the front) that has the 2 holes sitting higher. Now determine while it's in there where you want the aux port. I did the bottom left. Use your center punch and make a mark then use the 21/64" drill bit and make a hole. Note: 5/16" will work but it's a little tight around the aux port's threads. From that point here's what you should have

Now let's make the aux port ready. Unscrew the black cover from the back of the aux port and you'll note 3 contacts. 2 small ones one gold one silver and the body (the part that sticks out in the back) is a ground and MUST be used to get the clearest audio. Now cut about 3" of each wire like before mentioned 3 diff colors and thread them through the 2 holes on the 2 tabs and solder them to the tabs. Make sure they dont touch. Then solder the 3rd to the rear tab as a ground. DONT get ahead of me at this point, dont crimp your tabs on yet. Here's what it should look like. Make sure the solder doesnt exeed the body of the port or contact the port. This could ground the + or - messing up audio or keep the black sleeve from sliding on. Note, dont worry if you mess up the pack you buy comes with 2 ports for $4.99.

Once you have that, you can paint your plate whatever color you'd like. I used black semi-gloss to match my previous tapedeck keeping to a stock look. Once you put this port in it's not coming back out.

After the plate is ready slide in the aux port from the front. From there slide the sleeve over the 3 wires and screw it back down. This should secure the port to the plate. Once that's done strip the 3 wires and put the 3 male or 3 female spades (as long as all 3 are the same).

Now it's time to modify the car Cut the connector off and there should be 4 wires. Green, Grey (probably faded to a greyish tan after 20 years) black with white and the 4th is an un-covered larger just wire, no sleeve. Fold it back and wrap it up. That wont be used. You need the green, grey, black/white. Now from here is where hoping you used 3 color wires. Whatever colors hook to your gold, silver and body must go to the color wires i tell you here or it wont sound right ( as in bass on the right instead of rear or voice on one side of the car only)

Gold contact --> Green wire

Silver contact -> Grey wire

Body contact --> Black/white wire

With everything back together hook up your ipod or mp3 player, turn on the radio and hit "Play" and enjoy For my car I spliced in another power socket since one isnt enough to power my ipod and GPS at the same time. I used a 1 1/8" drill bit to make that hole.

[KDirk]

Very nice. I especially like the auxiliary power jack, I rather dislike the stock location in the ashtray, even though it makes sense as a cigar lighter. Another possible variation on this would be to incorporate a pocket or mount for an ipod or MP3 player of one's choice that would latch it onto the backing plate, rather than filling the dead space with the hood emblem. Just thinking out loud here.

KDirk

[Guest blue72beetle]

I was thinking a cubby hole, like 90/91's.

[Guest 89Reatta]

I like it. I understand the value for show cars of keeping the stock tape player, but for the rest of us tape players are of little use today and this is a nice repurposing of the space.

[Guest Recian]

if i was good at metal and had a welder i would have made a cubby out of it. That was my intention. Maybe down the road i can find a cubby from another car about that size and incorporate the aux jack in that.

[KDirk]

Recian-

Would likely be easier to make a cubby from plastic sheet, or from wood (neither would require the specialized tools needed for sheet metal fabrication). Either material would be easier to work - cut, drill, etc. ABS plastic sheet can be bought from Parts Express, this is used by a lot of installers for custom panel work in cars that get specialized stereo setups.

My plans for the cassette deck location are more drastic: I will be mounting a full double DIN nav head unit there. This will require extensive modification of the console housing around the cassette deck, and some inventive wiring as the stock radio will remain as well. Both units will share the stock antenna. I have an extra console housing and bezel, and have begun work on chopping them, but it will be a bit before it is ready to go.

KDirk

[Guest Recian]

i started making it from plastic but the only thing we can get around here is acryllic and the first time you push the cable into it's aux port the acrylic will crack. It cracked while trying to cut it. Metal to me is easier to work with since i've got all the equipment at my disposal being in a shop. I can get a welder if i wanted to i just didnt wana put all that time into it yet. I just wanted to get the basics out there and give you guys a guide to making this work for those of you who havent done it yet. Plus im tired of the radio i just wanted my aux port already

[Rawja]

Question:

I thought the BCM or radio needs to "see" the cassette deck in order to activate the input. Does this mod achieve a work-around or are you going to have to re-connect the cassette deck any time the battery has been disconnected in order for this to remain operable?

[KDirk]

Rawja,

Yes, the RIM (radio module) needs to see a signal (tape in) from the logic board in the cassette deck to enable the tape controls on the touch screen. It only needs to see this once (until power is lost - as in a dead or disconnected batter) and then the tape deck needs to be re-attached with a tape loaded to re-enable the input.

My plans are to gut a bad tape deck for the logic board, and hard wire the "tape in" switch input closed, then leave it attached to the E&C data line. I will enclose the logic board in a small plastic housing that can be tucked up in the dash out of the way. This will preclude ever having to reconnect the tape deck to get the tape input and controls to work.

KDirk

[DAVES89]

Kevin, If you make me two, I will barter parts for you. PM me if interested...

[handmedownreatta]

i still prefer what i did here eventhough i like daniels setup best.im still not happy with the look yet.i may redo it and center it.

[Guest blue72beetle]

My plans are to gut a bad tape deck for the logic board, and hard wire the "tape in" switch input closed, then leave it attached to the E&C data line. I will enclose the logic board in a small plastic housing that can be tucked up in the dash out of the way. This will preclude ever having to reconnect the tape deck to get the tape input and controls to work.

KDirk

That's what I did.

[Guest Recian]

you do need the deck in but only the first time you hook it up. Once you've used it you can disconnect the deck. I dont use the deck or an input. All you have to do is hit PLAY on the radio screen and it'll play your ipod. The controls of audio pause, stop and etc are on the ipod. The inputs(4-wire connector) from the deck are deciphered by the radio regardless of tapedeck being used or not

[KDirk]

Recian,

Just keep in mind that when you have to disconnect the battery (or if it dies) or the radio module is disconnected and loses it's memory, you will need to reconnect the tape deck with a tape in it to spoof the radio into thinking it is still there. This works as long as the memory of the radio module is maintained, or until the eject button is pressed. Bottom line, keep your tape deck handy for future use, you will need it at some point to "fool" the radio again.

KDirk

[Rawja]

All you have to do is hit PLAY on the radio screen and it'll play your ipod. The controls of audio pause, stop and etc are on the ipod. The inputs(4-wire connector) from the deck are deciphered by the radio regardless of tapedeck being used or not

The current prevailing wisdom is that if your battery is ever disconnected or goes dead, you will have to re-connect a tape deck in order to re-activate your aux input.

Care to test out the theory? (not being sarcastic) I say this because the early models ('86 Riv for sure) had control buttons on the tape deck and you'd press play and it would cause the radio to switch automatically, it's entirely possible that your iPod pushing signal through the aux input could cause the radio to switch, and we can dispense with a lot of the complicated surgery that others have done thinking it was necessary for proper operation.

[Guest Recian]

yeah disconnecting it will need to fool it again, so rigging it with a jumped connector like kdirk mentioned would help if battery ever dies. Im just lazy i guess. I think the fuel pump issue has kept me from looking too deep into it but i've still got an aux port

[KDirk]

Rawja,

While the earlier version tape deck in the 86/87 Rivi (also used in the Toronado) had on-board controls, the real issue is that the tape deck needs to present a signal to the radio module that a tape is present before the play control will work. Now, I don't know if the early version tape deck would start playing (and switch inputs) without a tape in it, but looking at the service data for that deck I have in PDF format, there is a tape-in sensor switch present. Thus, I have to figure it works the same as the 88/89 version that was built for outboard (touchscreen) controls only.

So, while the radio module likely assumes the tape deck is present at all times (even if disconnected from it's harness) pressing play on the touchscreen will not switch inputs unless it thinks there is a tape loaded in the deck. This is easy enough to test for 88/89 owners: with no tape in the deck, press play on the touchscreen and see what happens. What happens is nothing, the radio continues to play because it will not switch sources (and thus audio inputs) unless it sees a tape in the deck before the play button is pressed.

The only on-screen tape control that works with no tape loaded is the eject button, for obvious reasons. So, what is really happening is that the RIM module is not checking for the presence of the deck itself, but rather the presence of a tape in the deck at the time the play button is pressed. If it sees that, it will switch inputs and the tape transport is commanded to start playback by way of an E&C bus signal.

I think the other source of confusion is that some are not aware the tape-in signal is not simply a discrete switch closure sensed directly by the RIM module. This is why the tape deck is needed, and wiring cannot just be "jumped" to simulate the needed signal. The tape deck generates a coded signal from it's internal CPU that is transmitted over the E&C bus data line to the RIM module acknowledging when a tape is loaded.

In other words, while there is an actual switch closure within the deck, this sensor switch causes a command to be generated and sent over the network to tell the radio module that it is ok to allow playback (and by extension source switching) as a tape is in the deck. If no tape is loaded, this signal is not sent and pressing the play button is ignored.

For a bit of useless trivia, the CPU used in the cassette deck was made by none other than Alpine - their logo is marked right on the quad flat-pack IC on the logic board in the 88/89 versions. I am guessing they were contracted to make this for Delco as they were one of the earliest auto sound companies that developed gear with an interconnect/expansion bus. Of course, now everyone has this type of setup for outboard CD changers and HD/satellite radio tuners. That said, it was a fairly new concept in 1986.

KDirk

[Rawja]

Thanks for the explanation. I was just speculating as I know the new-style aux inputs people are getting added to factory radios sense incoming signal which causes them to switch inputs.

[handmedownreatta]

The current prevailing wisdom is that if your battery is ever disconnected or goes dead, you will have to re-connect a tape deck in order to re-activate your aux input.

Care to test out the theory? (not being sarcastic) I say this because the early models ('86 Riv for sure) had control buttons on the tape deck and you'd press play and it would cause the radio to switch automatically, it's entirely possible that your iPod pushing signal through the aux input could cause the radio to switch, and we can dispense with a lot of the complicated surgery that others have done thinking it was necessary for proper operation.

my satelite radio doen't turn it on automaticly.i have to push play.i pulled the tape player wires over above the fuse box so all i have to do is remove the side panal to temperarily plug in the tape player to reset it.they are long enough.

[padgett]

Sounds more like an "I am here" signal, kind of early plug and play. The coded signal probably tells the BCM "what" is there

[KDirk]

Padgett,

I have found scant documentation for the E&C bus, outside what is discussed in the context of the TECH 1 scan tool diagnostics. In any case, it is a random access bus, with packetized data being sent only when there is a change in state, or an operational command needs to be sent. Unlike the ALDL bus that is always active, most of the time the E&C bus is "quiet", as nothing is being sent or received. There is no continuous token or state of health sent at set timing intervals. It is also unusual in that it utilizes a pulse width modulation means of transmitting data, rather than the more typical binary (0 volts=0 bit, 5 volts=1 bit) of the ALDL bus. Consequently, it is more difficult to interface with than ALDL, which aside from its unusual baud rate, is a pretty straightforward communications scheme much like RS-232.

There are quite a few commands (stop, eject, play, ff, rew, skip forward, skip back, tune, seek, scan, etc.) as well as status and display data (tape in, disc in, radio frequency, band, preset #, DNR on/off, CRO2 on/off and so on). Really, every action taken on the radio, tape deck, or CD player in an E&C equipped car, and every response in turn, results in data being sent from one device and acted on by another.

Many of these are sent as variable length data packets to the control head (the CRT in the case of the 88/89 Reatta) from the RIM, or radio interface module, where the display data like radio frequency, clock, preset #, volume/balance/treb/bass/eq level is interpreted and shown. Other commands go the opposite direction, from the control head to the RIM module or an outboard device like tape deck or CD player.

This was actually a fairly robust protocol that was expanded on a number of times as new devices (like cd players) and uses were developed. E&C stands for "entertainment and comfort" bus, as it was also used in some vehicles for sending/receiving climate control data between a remote climate control head, AC programmer, and BCM.

It appears to be used for HVAC control in the 88/89 Reatta. In the 90/91, HVAC data is sent and received on the ALDL data line instead, as the E&C bus was all but deleted in the 90/91 models. In fact the only use for it in the two later years of the Reatta was rudimentary interfacing of the outboard CD player to the head unit.

I believe the E&C bus has been entirely obsoleted by GM in favor of newer, faster communication standards. Last use was probably in the early 2000's, before CAN bus became the standard in all cars. E&C was still used in a few GM vehicles in the late 1990's having the "class 2" bus as the primary communications facility, but was already largely phased out by then.

KDirk