Guest rsmalling Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Now that you guys and this forum have inspired me, my next plan is to rebuild my GS's engine. Right now Im getting the engine ready to pull. I snapped some shots of the engine codes. Does anyone know what the #'s after the LX means?This shot is of the cam oil groove. It's a bit over .100 wide so from what Ive read, if its the original cam than its not the most desirable cam. But I will know more after I get it out.Thought some of you would like to see some of thisThat head bolt with the spacer is there because I had to remove the head bolt to get the ac/alt mount out. So I used the nut as a spacer and torqued the bolt back down. Probably could have left it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Rob,The 3 digit number is an approximate production sequence code. Perhaps someone else can clarify in more detail.I'm not sure I understand your comment on the cam oil groove. I'm thinking you may have that groove confused with the groove in the cam casting right next to "center" bearing journal that indicates an original 65/66 dual quad camshaft.Here is a pic of the groove on my 66 2x4 cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thanks Jason!Yeah I just assumed it was the oil groove. Thanks for the photo. And thanks for responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Here are the casting #'s and groove on my Cam. Looks like it's still the original cam. the lower numbers are different from yours Jason. What do the #'s mean? Thanks for any and all input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Attached is a scanned page from an old Riview. It details all of the specs for nailhead cams. Perhaps this will help you some. As you can see, the number on the shaft doesn't necessarily tell you exactly what cam you have. But if you use a combination of shaft numbers and groove widths, you can perhaps figure out which cam you have. Hope this helps. Make sure you read Dennis Manners response as well as looking at the specs.Ed Edited February 28, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Nice Pics! You must have a good camera.It looks like your groove is about 1/16". Is that about right? Mine is about 3/32 wide or about .090 which is a variance from Denny Manners info of .120 that Ed posted above. I think regardless of the width of the groove whats most important is that its there which designates the 2x4 profile which we know the 63 shared.Kinda looks like the cast in numbers could be the same on both. As you can see from looking at the Denny's chart, the 1362241 number doesn't indicate the dual quad grind specifically but is relevant to the same base casting being used for the 2x4 and standard grind profilesBy the way, what is the build date on your car? Edited February 28, 2012 by JZRIV (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Attached is a scanned page from an old Riview. It details all of the specs for nailhead cams. Perhaps this will help you some. As you can see, the number on the shaft doesn't necessarily tell you exactly what cam you have. But if you use a combination of shaft numbers and groove widths, you can perhaps figure out which cam you have. Hope this helps. Make sure you read Dennis Manners response as well as looking at the specs.EdThanks Ed, this is good stuff on the Buick Cams. Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 By the way, what is the build date on your car?How do I find the build date? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 How do I find the build date? :confused:Your build date is on the Fisher Body Tag. Here is an example circled in red. 01 indicates January (65) and the B indicates the 2nd week of January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Right on Jason, Ill chk it out tomorrow. Pulled the engine today and broke it down. All the bearings and pistons were the original parts, it had what looked to be the standard steel head gaskets, bore is standard and very little ridge. The only thing I didn't expect to see was the last four rods were stamped (5,6,7,8) on the caps and the rods and the #8 piston was knurled. Once again all Buick part #'s inside the pistons and "Buick" cast inside as well. At some point something must have happened and work was done on #8. Any thoughts on this you guys want to through out would be interesting. But at any rate something was causing them to go after #8. Ive had the car since the late 80s and it's been a great running car. One thing though, when I first bought the car, it had a dead #3 cyl. pulled the valve cover and #3 exhaust rocker arm was broken in half, the push rod was bent and lifter was still in the bore. So I just wanted to see what I had, I replaced the lifter, rocker arm and pushrod. Its been running fine ever since. That lobe is starting to round. Ill gets some photos up of the piston knurling and other action shots tomorrow. got it to the machine shop today. So the process has begun. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Make sure you post up some pics. You know the rules. No pics, didn't happen.Got my engine on the stand last night, and begun tearing it down myself as well. Trying to find a good machine shop now. That's not easy here in scammer land South Florida.:eek: Wish me luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Piston is knurled to increase its diameter to make up for a sloppy fit in the bore. This was done back in the day as a low cost alternative to replacing pistons. No one does it anymore. The knurled piston along with no or little ridge in the cylinders indicates to me your motor may have been re-ringed with a ridge cut and honing performed. Mic the cylinder bores and their dimension will tell the story.Your broken rocker and bent pushrod was due to running bad gas thru the motor after prolonged storage. The bad gas causes the valve to stick in the guide and the pushrod and rocker are the weak links in the valvetrain. Tom Mooney Edited March 1, 2012 by 1965rivgs (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Thanks Tom,Makes good sense to me on the rocker arm situation, and the knurling, It just seems like more than one piston would have needed to be knurled, but who knows, maybe they just went in and did the bare minimums. Thanks for your input! Its like being a CSI! Edited March 1, 2012 by rsmalling spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I go out for breakfast once in awhile with a retired tech who worked at a Buick Dealer for 30 years when these cars were new. I was asking detailed questions about the frequency of 60s nailhead and 430 engine failures that would occur very early on in its life and/or while the car was still under warranty.....which wasn't very long back then. He said failures were common and initially when there was a problem with the lower rotating assembly, Buick would sometimes supply a short block as the repair but that didn't last long due to the volume of replacements which brought cost into it.He said it became very common to salvage whatever parts they could and only replace what was absolutely not repairable. He said because of this, the techs were forced to be real "mechanics" in the deepest sense of the word vs more of a parts changer. He said the factory was a bit sloppy when it came to quality control holding clearances consistently in spec. Of course he has seen some of these engines go for 150k plus miles and explained part of the reason is because that engine was lucky enough to have been assembled to spec as well received quality castings for pistons, rods, block, etc.That kind of supports what you are seeing in your engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Here is a link to the photos from my big teardown day! It was fun and interesting. I really enjoy the comments and sharing from you guys! 65 Buick Engine Teardown pictures by rsmalling - Photobucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Rob, There is a good possibility the hole with the knurled piston required extra honing due to a broken ring which can leave a deep, deep scratch in no time. Also, I have found the rear cylinders tend to show more wear and especially on dual quad engines. I have not done a statistical analysis but my theory is that raw fuel (think cold start and choked engine) tends to flow toward the rear cylinders diluting the oil film on the cylinder walls so wear is accelerated. I`m sure others will disagree but I have seen that situation enough times to at least raise questions. I`m doing a dual quad Nailhead now, .005 to .007 wear on most cylinders except the driver`s side rear which is at .016. One of the rings was broken in that cylinder. Car only has 63K original miles, ran as smooth as any Nailhead I have ever owned, but showed a little too much blowby under load and would use oil at highway speeds. Almost couldn`t bring myself to tear it down. There was a choke issue when I bought it so the engine was probably running too rich most of the time. Another pooch, Tom Mooney Edited March 1, 2012 by 1965rivgs (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Tom,I like your theory on fuel washing the rear cylinders causing excessive wear. Makes real world sense. And for sure if the choke isnt coming off or is stuck, can cause a real bad scene. Yeah mine was a good runner too, never used any oil, but all the rings were intact. I just knew about my patch job with the lifter, rocker arm situation I did in the late 80s that I was on borrowed time with cam wear. Plus I know I will enjoy the car a lot more with a fresh Mill. My distributor drive gear was really bad off, knife edged and actually coming apart! Any ideas on why that was happening? I inspected the cam gear, and it shows no signs of wear. the dist drive must be a softer material. Dist drive update:As stated earlier in this thread, when I first got the car the the rocker arm, push rod, lifter, I just remembered that the guts of the lifter were also shot out of the lifter, so the plunger, spring or clip got tangled up with the dist drive gear and most certainly caused the damage to the drive gear.Thanks for sharing. Edited March 7, 2012 by rsmalling dist drive update (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) While waiting for the machine work to happen Ive started working on prepping the engine compartment for paint. Luckily my car wasn't a real leaker, but I still spent a lot of time degreasing. Im also going to shoot the outer fender wells and A arms and as much of the frame going back while I have the devilbiss fired up. I found a chassis black 1 stage urethane satin finish that should be close enough color wise. Once I have the engine job phase done and dialed in, I plan on my next phase to continue with the undercarriage sanding, priming and painting. I dont have any cancerous rust, but I do have some surface rust starting on the undersides of the floor pan in spots. After that it will be time to address the rear suspension bushings and then the complete exhaust system. Pictures to follow as progress continues. Edited March 17, 2012 by rsmalling poor spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomuchvinyl Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just had to throw something in that I had heard from a guy in my town. He saw my '64 at a gas station and stopped to talk. He has a 65' that had been a dual quad car. It was mostly used by his late wife and the engine was replaced with a later model 430 at a pretty low over all mileage. He was told by the dealer that his wife's short trips to work caused the engine's demise due to not "fully warming up". Maybe another reference to excess raw gas causing premature wear in the rear cylinders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The moisture from condensation never gets "burned off" if the engine isn't warmed up. You can imagine what an engine full of water could end up like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewatersky Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Here is a link to the photos from my big teardown day! It was fun and interesting. I really enjoy the comments and sharing from you guys! 65 Buick Engine Teardown pictures by rsmalling - Photobucketcool photos.thanks for sharing them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 While waiting for the machine work to happen Ive started working on prepping the engine compartment for paint. Luckily my car wasn't a real leaker, but I still spent a lot of time degreasing. Im also going to shoot the outer fender wells and A arms and as much of the frame going back while I have the devilbiss fired up. I found a chassis black 1 stage urethane satin finish that should be close enough color wise. Once I have the engine job phase done and dialed in, I plan on my next phase to continue with the undercarriage sanding, priming and painting. I dont have any cancerous rust, but I do have some surface rust starting on the undersides of the floor pan in spots. After that it will be time to address the rear suspension bushings and then the complete exhaust system. Pictures to follow as progress continues.Hear are all the photos of the mask and paint (view as a slide show):Prep and Paint of 65 Rivi Engine Compartment pictures by rsmalling - Photobucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Looking good Rob. Keep it up! Whose Satin black paint did you end up using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Rob,I got it online in a 1 quart Kit to see how I liked it. Item DetailAnd I was sweating bullets to get everything shot with 1 quart (but It mixed to 1.5 qts) I think if I keep doing this I will pop for a modern gravity feed gun, less over spray and lower pressure= better coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrlforfun Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 OK Rob: You've gone this far, why not take off the front clip? I have done it and it is not that hard. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Looking great Rob! Finish gloss looks excellent. Very nice photo documentation. Its now official, I suck at taking sequence progress photos compared to you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Mitch,Yeah, on removing the clip, I probably should have, but my thinking or lack thereof was to just scuff up the engine compartment and paint it while the engine was out, then I got totally into the AC system, replacing all the lines, hoses and zeroing out that part of it, then I figured while painting the engine compartment just go ahead and shoot the wheel wells at the same time.It gets to a point of how far do I want go.... So, I just got busy prepping and never really thought about just pulling the clip. Would have made the prep much easier, but I took a lot of time and am happy with results so far. Jason and Rob J, Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Hopefully your wipers are working okay. The easiest way to get to the motor is with the driver's side fender removed. :eek:Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ed,You are right, mine was working ok, but I pulled it and am taking it in to get it checked out. Thats a Hell of a place for the wiper motor!Ive never had good luck with the GM W/S washer pump kits. whats the best solution on the washer pump?I appreciate all of you guys keeping an eye on me! Where can I get the Grommets for the cruise control diaphram to firewall mounts? and also the evap drain tube grommets in the firewall?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I haven't tried them yet (they're on one of my shelves) but I'm going to try to adapt a pump from a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee like I once had. The pump is a continuous pressure pump (not a pulse pump) that mounts on the bottom of the washer fluid reservoir. I'll have to enlarge the hole in the reservoir some so it will fit, then a nut from the inside holds it in place. It's the pick up for the fluid as well and there's a small electric pump built into it. As long as you apply 12 volts to it through a switch (the button on your wiper switch; the lever on the Jeep) the pump will push water through it. I don't know if the hoses are the same diameter where they connect to the reservoir, but an adapter could easily take care of that. I'll have to run the pump wire out to the reservoir, but that shouldn't be any problem either. Because the washer isn't mounted to the body, I'll also have to run a ground wire to it. If you're thinking about doing something similar, make sure that you get the pigtail from the donor car's wiring harness. It's a sealed connection and a simple terminal connector won't work.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 here are some shots of the engine compartment as I reassemble.http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/rsmalling/65%20Rivi%20GS%20Engine%20Overhaul/65%20Rivi%20Center%20Console/Centerconsole/centerconsolerightsideunderdashEC012.jpghttp://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/rsmalling/65%20Rivi%20GS%20Engine%20Overhaul/65%20Rivi%20Center%20Console/Centerconsole/centerconsolerightsideunderdashEC001.jpghttp://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/rsmalling/65%20Rivi%20GS%20Engine%20Overhaul/65%20Rivi%20Center%20Console/Centerconsole/centerconsolerightsideunderdashEC002.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Killerbunny Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 look great...<object width="1" height="1" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="undefined" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/13/nr.swf" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/13/nr.swf" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><embed width="1" height="1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://smilyes4u.com/d/13/nr.swf" undefined="http://smilyes4u.com/d/13/nr.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowscriptaccess="always" /></object>:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Okay, I have a couple more photos. Didnt want you guys to think I gave up and hauled off :rolleyes:my Rivi! Ive been busy with it, but a lot of my time is starting to go to the engine. Im trying to do as many of the little things during engine assembly as I can that will help it out. Anyway, took these this morning: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 here is a short video I took after installing my crank. .0015 bearing clearances. http://youtu.be/qaolP2o-F0A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Back on the Rivi Job the last couple weeks.Got the engine assembled and stuck back in today. Went Smoothly. Here is the proof: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Congratulations Rob on a major step behind you. Looks great! With those two boys an engine hoist probably wasn't even necessary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Thanks Jason,Yes, my two stepsons are a force for sure! We all had a good time yesterday stabbing the engine, they had never done anything like that before. Looking forward to lighting it off soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Looks awesome Rob. Nice job on that motor. In the middle of the build of my engine right now. Make sure and post a start up video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Coming along nicely, thanks for sharing. Keeping me motivated to keep working on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Right on guys!Yeah Rob, Ive been thinking of getting it on vid from the first Crank up. Ill see what I can do. Im going to run it up and break in the cam then shut it down and retorque the heads, intake and exhaust manifolds. yeah Chris, just keep pluggin away, I just try to something everyday and it gets done. I pulled my mill in Feb, and here I am, one thing led to another... I kept finding things I needed to address, But its all good, its a great car that is finally getting some tlc. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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