W.T.B.-Wood Steering Wheel "R" cap

February 26, 2012

Hello,

I'm needing a Center Cap "R" for my wood steering wheel. i will consider any condition if the price is reasonable.

Thank-you,

Kevin

February 26, 2012

Make that two.

BTW Kevin, you can buy re-pop's. Not sure of the quality of them, however.

February 27, 2012

Rob,

If you have the link for the repop's, please post it. I'm definitely interested. I had p/m'd a guy on here who sells hornbars and center caps, but no luck yet.

Thanks,

Kevin

March 3, 2012

Just got the new Riview, and there is a guy advertising he reproduces these parts.

March 3, 2012

Yeah.... I called him, 3 Benjamin's, 1 Jefferson, and 1 Lincoln will get ya 1!

Gonna hold out. My project is just getting under way!

I could buy a steering wheel on eBay for that, get the cap from it and put it back on eBay as just the wheel!

March 3, 2012

I know, they are bucks. Not to mention usually you've got to buy a horn bar as well. Oh well, that's the price we pay to have a uniquely cool car to drive and bring to car shows. As much as I love 69 Camaro's, they are a dime a dozen, unlike us 65 Riv guys. Life is short, Work hard, make money, and spend it on your car(s). You can't take it with you when you kick the bucket.

I need more garage, and less house.

RivNut · March 3, 2012

Now you wonder why there are not many reproductions made for our cars. If all you're looking at is price, we'll never get anyone to reproduce anything for us.

If I rember correctly, the guy who produces these made the molds etc. just so he could have one; for his car. You think the ones he selling are expensive, just think what it would cost you if you had to do the R&D and produce just one for your own use.

The reproductions are actually better than the originals. The originals were die cast, these are solid metal. The horn bars won't break when you press on them like the OE ones will and these repos will never pit.

You're going to get what you pay for and your car will look like it too.

Ed

March 4, 2012

I totally agree Ed, which is why I will be buying a horn bar, and horn cap from him. They are costly, but I don't mind paying the price and supporting the folks reproducing parts for our cars. Now, who is the gentleman whom is supposedly making the plastic under armrest pieces? I need a set or so of those, especially the power window/seat plate plastic armrest base plate, thing a ma jiggy.

March 4, 2012

Ease up... I didn't say I wasn't going to buy one, I said I was going to hold out. Thankfully I held out 1 week on the wheel, I was looking at a wheel on eBay with no center cap, no horn bar and splits. I searched "all Craigslist" found my wheel with an original non broke hornbar and no splits for $130 and he shipped it to me for another $10.

Again, Thankfully, that gave me a little more coin to put towards my absolutely perfect rechromed dual quad air cleaner I bought from Nelson in Hialeah, Fl last week.

I really don't think a restoration suffers from proceeding with caution and reserve while part hunting.

I'm sure I'll be knocking on his door in the next few weeks, but if something else comes up a little cheaper and of BETTER or same quality, well I would have to be rich to pass it up! And I'm just a working class hero! I hope I'm worthy of a Riviera... Only time and pics will tell!

buickbonehead · March 4, 2012

I am the guy reproducing the horncaps and hornbars and I COMPLETELY understand the shock at the $'s. I knew they would be a hard sell when I sat down and added up the cost to produce. The whole process has been a fun and learning experience. Fortunately I haven't kept track of what I've spent to get to this point. :confused:

Let me explain why the horncaps are so expensive. I'm not necessarily writing this to justify the price, but to let you guys know what it took. We're all car guys that like to fix things or at least figure out how they work. I am a CPA and not in the parts business or even in the metal machining business. Obviously on March 4 I am at work and should be reviewing tax returns

First stop and think of all the parts this piece has in it. The metal cap itself, the -R- insert, the backing plate, the locator pins, the clips, and the tiny screws to hold it all together. I know.....I know.....the project was doomed from the beginning.

The Cap-There were untold iterations of the cap cut. I have several prototypes before the final version was settled on. The cap is machined from a solid puck of aluminium. No pot metal! They are not produced from a mold. Look at the cap you have on your car and ask yourself the question "How the hell could I make this". Look at all the angles (how the face slopes down toward the -R- ending in a ridge, how ther -R- is a slight blister that bulges slightly above the face of the cap, how the outer perimeter of the cap bulges a little), the clearances (how little metal there is to mount screws to hold the backing plate on, how little metal there is for the locator pins to mount, how close the hornbar cup is to the back of the cap, how tight the hornbar arms are to the cap as they exit the cap), the fitment (not only of the cap itself, but also to the wheel), and the finishes (the overall chrome and the frosted finish around the -R-).

The -R- I have to buy the -R- and I pay what you would pay. They aren't cheap.

The backing plate is nothing spectacular. But it does need to fit properly. The OEM uses an oversized -R- with no backing plate. The oversize -R- is not reproduced.

The locator pins The OEM's were molded in the pot metal. Cutting these in the the cap itself is impractical. They obviously need to be in the proper location to mount to the holes in the wheel, they need to be proper diameter and length, and they need to be strong enough to stand up to use.

The clips Not only do they need to be located in the proper place to clip to the wheel, they need to be the right tension, have the flare at the end of the clip in the right place, the right length to mount snugly, be strong enough to hold snugly yet weak enough to allow it to be pulled off, and finally be mounted to the cap in the minimal amount of metal, firmly enough to withstand it being pulled off and snapped back on in normal use. The OEM's put the clip on pins and melted the pot metal pins to hold the clips on. As you all know the clips fall off pretty easily.

The finish You've all used a chromer. They are expensive, slow, unreliable and produce unpredictable results. I can't tell you how many finished pieces (caps and hornbars) are F'd up by chromers. The caps have very tight tolerances. If they put too much chrome on the cap then the -R- insert doesn't fit properly, the clips are suddenly too long, the hornbar arms now rub the cap where they exit the cap. Then if the chrome finish itself doesn't look good and you try to rechome you are almost guaranteed to have fitment issues. We also had a hell of a time figuring out the frosted finish.

The customer Once you get them to swallow the price based upon just pictures and your literary BS skills, they will likey hide the ridiculous price from their wife, their friends and probably even from themselves. They will then open the package with great anticipation and hold the part in their hands and go over it with a microscope in detailed judgement. (I just described myself if you're wondering). It better be damn near perfect and rightfully so! (again....myself here). It would be a much easier sell if they saw it on a car in the enviornment where it will ultimately reside. I know as a customer I have high expectations when I spend that kind of money. That's why I always offer a refund within 7 days of purchase. If you don't like it.....send it back.

As you can see, they aren't easy to make (and then sell).....even after you spend the R&D money to figure out how to make them. Any "business" would not be making these as they just don't sell and none do make them. Look at the hornbars, OPGI had them on their website for over $300 and I understand they were cast pieces and they never had them in stock. Did they really ever sell any? I would hope they would be better metal than pot metal. I think there is another guy in the Riview who advertises the hornbars, but I don't think he really makes them anymore.

I have about ten of the finished honbars in my garage. They've been there for over 6 months. I haven't advertised anywhere but in the Riview....and that is free. I would have stopped that but I'm too lazy to send an email to tell them to stop. I really haven't pushed the hornbars or the caps. I have one horn cap that is marketable that I call a second because it has too much chrome and the -R- doesn't sit properly (in my opinion). Would you notice had I not told you? Maybe, maybe not. I doubt you would if you saw it in a car at a show. I also have 4 caps that I paid to be cut, paid to be chromed and the chrome is way to thick. They are junk.....a solid LOSS. I have 4 more in the process of being cut. I'm only doing that because I already have the -R-'s, the backing plates, and the clips. I'll have to face the chromer problem again. I've been through probably 6. I had a very good one who did great work, slow, but good work. He did a great job on the hornbars and the caps. I went to pick up my parts and the place was locked up and he was in prison. My parts were gone. I finally found out that another chrome guy essentially packed up and took all the parts from the original guy's shop. I did get the parts back but the new guy put the chrome on way too thick (the ones discussed above). The chrome was beautiful, but too thick . I have found a new guy who has done good work on the hornbars and did a couple of Wildcat custom horncaps, but none of the Rivi caps. I'll use him on these last few.

I don't hold anything against anyone complaining about the price. You can certainly find acceptable OEM units on ebay. I even have a presentable cap on ebay right now started for .99...and a repop hornbar started for .99. See the links below.

Sorry to vomit on everyone, put I thought you guys might be interested in the story.

Rick

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Edited March 4, 2012 by buickbonehead
Spelling (see edit history)

sharknose1 · March 4, 2012

I applaud you for all the hard work,research and diligence to see it through to the end resulting in a beautiful part. I too have looked into short runs of these specialized Buick parts that larger vendors will not make. They don't make them because the market is so small compared to say a Camaro or Chevelle. They figure that with time to research and develop that the price will not be marketable. So that leaves us where we are. We can find them used,NOS or take a chance and make them but price will be higher than comparable Camaro and Chevelle items. I will support guys like you.I want a horn bar! Brian

March 4, 2012

I apologize if I sounded harsh... Trust me, 1 of those you have I gladly buy, i understand that they are few and far between and thankfully you had taken to the task of reproducing them. Again, thank-you! I sincerely mean that!

March 5, 2012

Thanks for your efforts Rick. I'll take a horn bar, and a cap when you have them ready to go. Let me know. I'll need a second set for my other 65 Riv GS, but that restoration is about 1 to 2 years out.

Rob.

lrlforfun · March 5, 2012

OK Rick: First of all thanks for your response. Most people have no idea of what it takes to even begin to do what you did and I enjoyed reading your thread. Personally I think that GM really did an great job with the First Gen Riv and Corvette steering wheels. They really enhance the appearance of a cars interior.

Back to the repro deal. A while back I posted in the General section of the BCA forum and asked why GM Ford and Chrysler didn't reproduce a bunch of popular items and sell them in their parts departments. To me that would be a fantastic way to get people into their dealerships and ultimately familiarizing them with their current products leading to sales. The responses I got were all over the board. The bottom line is that until I could be proven wrong, I still believe that a company like GM could make reproduction parts still sell them at a loss and ultimately wind up making a huge profit because of the increase in sales from their parts customers coming into a dealership and buying a new car.

Back to your project. It's not many guys that have the courage to do what you did along with the humility and I encourage you to keep exploring because it will only get better! Mitch

buickbonehead · March 5, 2012

Thanks guys. I appreciate your comments. I didn't intend to make it a marketing ploy. I'll keep the guys interested in the caps posted on the status of the ones in proceess now and for the guys interested in the hornbar, bid on the one on ebay. You may get it for less than the regular $250. I've got some in the garage for after the auction if you don;t get that one.

Kevin-Don't give your comments a second thought. They ARE expensive. You did a great job on the wheel you landed on Craigslist.

I need to be clear that I did not "make" these. I know a talented machinist who had just started a machine shop and I proposed the idea to him. It was a combination of the fact that I wanted to try to make them and he needed the work. We talked and emailed a bunch to finally get to the finished product.

Here's what started it. I wanted a cap for my Wildcat and someone had already put the '66 black and chrome cat in the Rivi cap. that's a cut up '65 Wildcat road wheel cap laying on a Rivi cap.

Here is the first prototype. It is an unchromed cap and an unchromed hornbar. That cap is cut from steel and is WAY heavy. The red Wildcat emblem fits in that one. But it is not the final for my Cat.

Here is the wheel that is going in my car. .....yes it is painted black.....I know many of you are cringing. The wheel had numerous splits and even a cigarette burn....it was a "rescue". Still not the cap that's going in the Cat. Heck, I can't find a picxture of it right now. Only the Electra and Rivi had wood on the interior. The cat is chrome and black.

Tell me that setup wouldn't look fine in a black on black Electra or put a -R- in it and mount it in a black on black Rivi.

Here's one with a silver medallion.

In case not everyone has seen one of the repop horn caps. That is an OEM hornbar. The repops fit the same.

March 5, 2012

Thanks for the pics Rick. That -R- horn cap looks very nice. Let me know when you've got those ready to ship.

Thanks, Rob.

March 8, 2012

yeah those are super nice looking caps, Great Job Rick. Im looking for wood wheel, then I will for sure be needing a cap from you.

Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel · March 8, 2012

Rick! Any chance you would have a Wildcat one? I have a wood wheel and need everything else for the black car...

Cheers

Ted

buick5563 · March 11, 2012

Good for you Rick, they look great!

Patrick91914 · March 12, 2012

Some of you know that I reproduce the "Super Wildcat" air cleaner decal. It's a small, three-color smile-shaped metallic sticker made from gold anodized aluminum. I needed one for my car and refused to use paper one that has been available for years. The project cost about $1500 for art, material, and tooling. I give mad props (i.e., I appreciate and applaud) to anyone who takes the time, effort, money and risk to reproduce any part for a small customer base. I say if you need a cap, buy one today from this man because if you procrastinate, they may not be available tomorrow.

buickbonehead · March 17, 2012

Thanks again guys. I purchased several of Patrick's metal decals sometime back and they are top notch. The paper ones just don't cut it. I think it was on V8Buick.

I've got 4 new caps ready to go to the chromer. I just need to find a break in tax season to run them over to him.

Ted:

I did make two of the low profile red cats. I sent you an email with more pics to an iac.net address. I don't know if it is still good. I can resend to another email if you want.

Anyway, here is a pic of the setup for my car.

sharknose1 · March 18, 2012

I received the horn bar from Rick and it looks great! Also thanks to Patrick for the beautiful Super Wildcat air cleaner decal.Thanks again.

Brian

March 18, 2012

I got my air cleaner metal decal this week too. Top notch product Patrick!

March 27, 2012

I was talking with Rick and I ended up buying a horn bar and a Rivi Cap for the wood wheel I recently found for my Buick. It came in the mail today. I couldnt be more happy. These parts are are of the highest quality. The pictures dont do them justice. I wanted to see the one he called a second. I cant see anything wrong with it. Super job Rick! Im really happy.

Rob

July 20, 2012

Rick, any updates on stock? I'd like to get a horn bar and -R- Centercap. Thanks.

Also TTT to help your sales:)

60FlatTop · July 20, 2012

I just read this string of messages. I know how much goes into the offerings my company provides and how simple the end result looks.

The thing I am very grateful for is being around in 1979 to be able to buy what I think was the last horn bar from GM stock. As I remember it cost $17.00. That was probably a better deal than my AM/FM radio. My radio was still mounted in the original showroom display and sitting on the back bench of the service shop. It was the mechanic's music. I asked the mechanics if they would trade for a new "store bought" radio. They said sure and I made the trade.

Bernie

buickbonehead · July 21, 2012

Rick, any updates on stock? I'd like to get a horn bar and -R- Centercap. Thanks.
Also TTT to help your sales:)

Rob:

Thanks for the bump. I do have hornbars (I guess you saw the auction on ebay). If anyone is interested send me a PM. I currently have 6.

The new horncaps came back substandard from the chromer. He was sick (and he was sick) and one of his flunkies did it. Some of the definition was buffed out. He's giving me "chroming credit" for the cost of the parts. He's promised me only he will do them from now on. But I am tired of the disspointment, losing money on the part and all the handle time it takes. We have -R- inserts, clips and backing plates already made for at least 4 more caps. i may try again for several wheels I have, but it won't be anytime soon.

I will continue to make the hornbars. They are a sorely needed part and can be made with a high degree of success.

Regards,

Rick

July 21, 2012

I have a question, the left side"paddle" on my horn bar is loose/has a lot play. Does this means the hornbar itself is broken or can I fix it by taking off the cap and tighten it up?

Edited July 21, 2012 by Gseago (see edit history)

RivNut · July 21, 2012

Broken. I hate to be so blunt, but the horn bar from end to end is one piece of chrome plated pot metal. Breakage ususally comes from someone pushing too hard on the horn. To honk the horn (and we all know the harder you push the louder the horn is, right?) and not damage the horn bar, you need to learn to push up on the horn bar from the back side. It gives your middle finger another kind of exercise which will keep you out of bigger trouble. Pushing down pries the bar away from the shaft tearing it away. Pushing up from the back pushes the bar into the shaft.

It's time to contact BuickBoneHead for a repo. His won't break because of the material he used. Or you may be the first guy in ?????? years to finally come up with a solution for fixing the broken ones.

Ed

July 21, 2012

Ha ha ha. Thanks Ed the horn bar was like that when I bought my Riviera. I was asking because a saw BuickBoneHead's reply and wanted to know if I should contact him to preorder one of his.Btw both his hornbars and caps look BEAUTIFUL

W.T.B.-Wood Steering Wheel "R" cap

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