Guest bofusmosby Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I am in the process of running power into my garage that I rebuilt, so this morning (the temp was about 35) I tried to start my car to back it up, but it wouldn't start. I tried using some starting fluid and the engine would start, then sputter and die. I have been meaning to send out the fuel pump to have it rebuilt, so I suspected this to be the problem. I finally got it started by running a hair/blow dryer aimed at the fuel pump for about 5 minutes. My guess is that the old diaphragm is barely doing its job as it is, and with this cold weather, it wouldn't work at all.Do you believe that I am correct on this assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay144 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You could be correct.Another possibility is that there may have been a little condensation in the gas, and an ice crystal or two was clogging things up at the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 There is a huge possibility the problem may be what is known as "phase separation" of E10 fuel if the fuel is more than 30 days old and the fuel system is vented. "Phase separation" begins occurring when the alcohol reaches full water saturation and you end up with a layer of water in the bottom of your gas tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What is the age and make of your auto? And what grade of gas are you using? Much has been discussed concerning ethanol blends, especially if you have exposed rubber parts. 35 degrees is springtime up here, should not be a problem in Florida. I'd guess bad pump.Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thanks guys for you feed-back. The car is a 1937 Pontiac, and from what I understand, the fuel pump is the same one that was on the car when the previous owner found the car parked behind a barn. The car had been sitting there since the 50's, and the previous owner "discovered" the car in the 80's. I was told that nothing was ever done to the fuel pump, no rebuild or nothing. Once I finish with the garage wiring, I'm going to remove the pump and send it out for a rebuild. Are there any tricks to removing and re-installing this fuel pump? I was reading on another thread about some difficulties on re-installing, but not with a 37 Pontiac. I was reading in the service manual, but there were no details mentioned on doing this. I've already bought another fuel line that goes between the solid gas line and the fuel pump. Anything else I need to get, or need to know about this? Any tips or insight would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You shouldn't have any problem putting a fuel pump on. You may have to exert a little extra force to line up the holes if the cam that the pump arm rides on is at its high point. You definately should replace the old pump. It's a wonder it works at all, what with its age, and because of what E10 will do to the old diaphram material that was used back when. Best to use flare (5-sided) wrenches to prevent damaging fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You shouldn't have any problem putting a fuel pump on. You may have to exert a little extra force to line up the holes if the cam that the pump arm rides on is at its high point. You definately should replace the old pump. It's a wonder it works at all, what with its age, and because of what E10 will do to the old diaphram material that was used back when. Best to use flare (5-sided) wrenches to prevent damaging fittings.Believe it or not, the MTBE used to oxygenate gasoline in winter months was worse for certain types of materials used for diaphragms and gaskets than E10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 MTBE was worse on everything, everyone, and possibly criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I agree time to rebuild the pump anyway. I did all three of my cars with new materials when the first one died. I get my kits from "Jacksons Old Time Parts" I have had great luck. They also offer a rebuilding service.Jackson's Old Time Parts : The Best In Mechanical Wearing parts for all Cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 MTBE was worse on everything, everyone, and possibly criminal.Yup, but it only took some 35 years for everyone to figure that one out. Yes, 35 years as MTBE was first put into gasoline as an octane booster when lead additives became illegal. Truly nasty stuff, as are some of the injector cleaners being placed into gasoline. "Some" because refiners might stick any number of different chemicals into fuel to act as injector cleaners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Another fun side effect of the cleaners is when they start cleaning our 80 year old fuel tanks/systems and all kinds of neat stuff comes through the fuel system into the carb/engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Another fun side effect of the cleaners is when they start cleaning our 80 year old fuel tanks/systems and all kinds of neat stuff comes through the fuel system into the carb/engine.Most certainly. That is another issue with E10 as well. Ethanol (alcohol) is a solvent and once it cleans out the crud it begins attacking steel and any castings made of pot metal or aluminum, most particularly carburetors. Today's gasoline can be best described as the "perfect storm" when it comes to aging fuel systems for normally aspirated engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Pretty soon we will have to drain the "gas" for the winter so we do not wreck anything. I did try this once but my carb leaked like a sieve for about 20 min till the gaskets swelled back up....big pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I plan on draining the gas on mine this weekend before the re-built fuel pump arrives. After seeing all that crap in the old pump, I'm going to do all I can to minimize and future problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If you are lucky you have a drain plug on your fuel tank, great way to drain it, getting rid of the gas is another problem. I use an aftermarket in line fuel filter to supplement my stock glass bowl between the pump and the carb. Also I only use K&N air filters, the stock one goes on for shows. If you go to the K&N web sight they have almost every size and shape you might have room to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yes, mine does have a drain plug at the underside of the tank. I've god some weeds at the base of my fence that I need to kill anyways.About the fuel filter, I was thinking of getting one from NAPA. It should be a simple job. I have never seen an original gas filter on a 37 Pontiac. If they were an extra add on, would it have a glass bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambarn Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Bofus, the glass bowl "filters" are really just sediment tanks. use an inline filter. Cut and spliced mine in so that if you kneel down at the right rear wheel, you can see it on the frame rail. that way I can visually check for crud in the filter and if need be, remove and clean or replace it with no gas spills in the engine compartment. Good luck. - Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bollman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 What I did this year with my F1 was run the tank dry and then dumped a gallon of Av Gas in and ran it long enough to get everything nicely filled with good gas. For the last 100 miles or so of driving in the Fall I carried a small can of Av Gas with me. I ended up running out in front of my shop door as I was leaving for a short drive. Will have to wait till I put it back on the road to see if it was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thank you Sam. On mine, the line runs along the frame on the drivers side. I do believe that I will install one between the fuel pump and the carb., but as you have done, I might also install one somewhere before the pump. No sense in letting all that crap get into the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD in KC Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If you are lucky you have a drain plug on your fuel tank, great way to drain it...Be careful! The drain plugs in 70 year old gas tanks are notorious for twisting right off of the tank... fitting and all... leaving you with a big hole to repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Be careful! The drain plugs in 70 year old gas tanks are notorious for twisting right off of the tank... fitting and all... leaving you with a big hole to repair.Thank you for the heads up! The previous owner had pulled and cleaned the tank, along with putting in a coating on the inside of the tank. The drain plug looks like it has been unscrewed in recent years. I'll be sure and put some penetrating oil on it for several days before I try to remove it. Can't be too careful.On another note (and concern) I had a good look at the fuel line that goes between the fuel pump and the carb., and I see that the fuel line gets real close to the manifold. About the only place I feel I can install is the short run of tubing from the carb to before it gets next to the manifold. What is the danger of a plastic fuel filter melting from being too close to the hot manifold? What would be considered a safe distance to keep this filter away from the manifold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Pretty soon we will have to drain the "gas" for the winter so we do not wreck anything. I did try this once but my carb leaked like a sieve for about 20 min till the gaskets swelled back up....big pain.More than a good indication that MTBE in gasoline had done its job of ruining your carburetor's gaskets. That carburetor needs to be rebuilt with gaskets known not to have swelling issues with either MTBE and/or Ethanol to be safe to drive, assuming it hasn't been rebuilt at anytime since around 1985 or afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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