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Dave Mellor NJ

Souping up or tearing down?

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Looks like a church in the background, there is a Hot Rod club in Massachusetts called the Alter Boys, maybe these guys are the founding members?

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Looks like a church in the background, there is a Hot Rod club in Massachusetts called the Alter Boys, maybe these guys are the founding members?

Looks more like a school. Maybe it's their vocational auto shop??

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A close up of the hubcap should reveal the make. I would like a pair of seats like that for my own project.

I wonder if the car might be a Knox.

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Thanks to 1937hd45 letting for letting me know that this photo was up on here.

We were never able to ID this car....I just looked at several photos in our archives of Knox engines and they have both the intake and exhaust manifolds on this side of the car and the pushrods are on the drivers side.

It would be interesting if someone figures this one out.

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A close up of the hubcap should reveal the make.

The hubcap has what appears to me to be a tall, elongated letter "F" (lying on its side). Could this be a Flanders Model 50-Six*? :confused: The cowl hood and radiator shape are very similar to other four cylinder Flanders and E-M-F cars I've seen, but I can't find any pictures of the six cylinder cars.

(*Of which on "a handful" were made according to Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942.)

post-30638-143138833793_thumb.jpg

Edited by Dave@Moon
added asterisk line (see edit history)

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I zoomed in on that hub cap and sure do not see an "F" laying on its side, but what I do believe I see is the word Dayton. With that being said I was out looking at a few google images on the net and my take is that this is a 1909, 1910 or 1911 Stoddard Dayton. Right or wrong, that's my 2 cents. Scott...

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I zoomed in on that hub cap and sure do not see an "F" laying on its side, but what I do believe I see is the word Dayton. With that being said I was out looking at a few google images on the net and my take is that this is a 1909, 1910 or 1911 Stoddard Dayton. Right or wrong, that's my 2 cents. Scott...

Man, you've got some good eyes!!! I don't see it.

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This car has a distinctive 'tall' radiator filler. Most of the S-Ds I found on the net do not have that. This car also does not have that distinctive shape on the radiator front seen on S-Ds. I thinks S-Ds had a different ohv setup.

As far as I can work out S-D only built a T-head six in 1908 and their later six - 1912 and 1913 - was a Knight.

Edited by nzcarnerd (see edit history)

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Not a Stoddard Dayton. The Radiator is not right. Also, they did not build a six cylinder until they introduced the Knight Engine in 1912, which is a sleeve valve engine. Dandy Dave!

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I've cropped out the picture and did a reverse image on it and I may have it wrong in it being a Stoddard-Dayton but I would swear that the cap does say Dayton. Anyone here that has the tools could pull the picture down to their computer and do the same thing and should see the same results. All that being said I am at a loss as to what else to offer here. It is a neat original picture though. Scott...

post-59683-143138836466_thumb.jpg

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I've cropped out the picture and did a reverse image on it and I may have it wrong in it being a Stoddard-Dayton but I would swear that the cap does say Dayton. Anyone here that has the tools could pull the picture down to their computer and do the same thing and should see the same results. All that being said I am at a loss as to what else to offer here. It is a neat original picture though. Scott...

Expanded 5X:

post-30638-143138836471_thumb.jpg

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Ok, maybe my eye sight is a bit different. I just again opened the reverse image of the picture I just posted above in another tab of my browser and than changed the browser zoom level (located in the lower right hand corner of my Internet Explorer) from my normal 100% first to 200% which I can read and then to 400%. In both cases the hub cap and its wording is not distored as you have displayed. What I myself see is Dayton but just maybe it might read Dalton. Again, that's me and my eye sights and yes I'm not a spring chicken and could just be seeing things. Everyone please take this for what it is and remember it's just my 2 cents. Scott...

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A look in my copy of The Standard Catalog shows the only "Da..." car maker of that era that built a six was Davis who did a Continental-powered six in 1914. Probably a red herring as I presume the Continental engines of the era would have been side valve. I reckon our mystery car is 1912 at the latest because of the lack of a cowl. The front fenders with the considerable dip at the front also point to a date of around 1911-12.

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Is the star-like design on the hub a clue to anyone? Also, if they are building a hotrod speedster and not dismantling it, maybe it's an engine swap!

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I like the trade (Normal School) idea since the car behind them is also apart. Looks like the floor boards are out and they are working on the transmission....maybe in, maybe out? If it is a trade school, most likely for the 50th time....

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I found this pic of a 1911 Isotta Fraschini which has a lot in common; the tall neck and the downward fenders but the wheels only have 10 spokes and the frame horns are different. The headlight brackets look right

1911IsottaFraschini.jpg

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I like the trade (Normal School) idea since the car behind them is also apart. Looks like the floor boards are out and they are working on the transmission....maybe in, maybe out? If it is a trade school, most likely for the 50th time....

Most likely the clutch as that is where they are pointing. Clutches were a common problem in the early days. Dandy Dave!

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See what you can find on Abbott-Detroit six cylinder cars

No, not an Abbott. The Abbott Detroit has a very distintive "V" in the upper part of the radiator.

Picture of 1912 Abbott-Detroit Model 44 Touring

I've been trying to nail the engine down. Northway listed that they did produce a 6 in 1913 that had open overhead valves, but I have not been able to find a photo of that paticular engine. The other Northway engines do not look like this and the cam is on the right on the single cam engines.

I found this link on Ralph E. Northway with links to some photos of his designs.

NORTHWAY Family Church Records, Etc.

Unlike most engines with a single cam, which the cam is most commonly on the right side of the car, This has the cam on the left for both the intake and exhaust valves. Also the cylinders are cast in pairs. That unique engine should be a dead give-a-way as to the auto maker. When I first saw it, I thought J.I.Case.

Looking around the net, Case did have a 6 cylinder car entered in the Indianapolis 500 in 1912 but I can find no photos of the 6 cylinder engine. Only 4's. I see Alco also had a 6, but the valves appear to be in the block, and also twin cams.

No matter what it is, I would love to have that Mystery Roadster in my garage even in the condition it is in at the time that the photo was taken . :D Dandy Dave!

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

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