stealthbob Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I want the original look but demand the durability of powder coating....so here I am.I have had a shop powdercoat my frame and other chassis bits but I am doing the stuff that I can fit in a normal oven....I am trying to match the colour of Cad plating though....I know it is impossible but would like to get close (sans the green blue viens look).I have never really seen true Cad plating in person so all I can go by are the pics out there. The thing is I think most are paint anyway so I really don't know? Any thoughts on this: Edited February 10, 2012 by stealthbob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Have you looked at EASTWOOD, they have lots of coatings?I wish you well,Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yea I have a sample of their powder as well but I think it is identical to the powder I got from 365powder.If I can't get it to look close enough I will just have them plated...I just like the extreme durability of powdercoating.Also I can't ship Eastwoods aerosols over the great Canukistan wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That looks very good...I would be more happy to powder coat the "faux" cad plating, rather than to try my various other methods of painting to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The backing plates look teriffic in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I think you nailed it on those backing plates...almost good enough for a driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) The parts look great! Really good for powder. I agree with Adam. Bob, if you go back to the 57 Buick thread on the plating for the bolts. As you posted in that thread, Caswell Inc. - Copy Cad® and Zinc Plating Kit they have a cad style zinc plating. They also have a gold cad -like bath for the plated parts as well that will provide that "golden cad / golden chromate look" to the parts. As for me, I went the way of Adam..used the Eastwood paint on the parts. It is all about the technique, and does turn out pretty well for paint to simulate a golden cad plated part, especially if it is a part not in the spotlight. TP Products also has a golden cad style paint as well.Also, unless I want to eat car parts, the oven is off limits for powder coating per my wife! Edited February 11, 2012 by 1957buickjim (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Thanks guys...I was worried it looked "cheap" or way off.I really like the concept of powder coating...it is freaking strong! I looked into the plating kits...I just love the chemistry and fun factor but in the end it was the fact of the expensive rectifier and that I doubt it would be economical to do all the plating myself. Now that I am confidant that I have the right mix for my powder, I will do the other three plates.For the record this will be a driver...all the way to the first National after it is done. Jim, your project is how I should have done mine....I envy your wisdom in being able to complete your restoration with the balance of doing it correct and complete but doing it in a way that saves time energy and money. Beautiful work, its a model for all of us!Me I got caught up in the "Might as wells"..... Edited February 11, 2012 by stealthbob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Thanks Bob..those "might as wells" are there regardless of the level of restoration you do, even the driveway style..Your car will be outstanding when you are completed with it. I can't wait to see more of your in progress pictures, that's for sure. Hopefully, the drive to Nationals won't be too far for you (read: South Bend 2013 ). Heck, maybe we could car pool, you basically have to drive through Detroit to get to South Bend! That would be a blast!Great job and keep up the faith and good work. Your attention to the details really shines through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Just asking............If you haven't seen CADMIUM plating, especially on 1950's Buicks, how do you know it's suppose to be gold and not the silver gray?Al Mack"500 Miles West of Flint" Edited February 12, 2012 by 1953mack (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Very good question....I have simply followed the lead of some very knowledgeable restorers. These are top notch guys and I have full trust in them when they say that some things are, the way they say they are.Names not required...just look up the 3 longest threads in the Buick section and you will see who I am talking about There is also a wealth of 54 Buick info on the 54Buick site....where a MrEarl hangs his hat. He is the one who has a whole garden of 54 Buicks to draw info from.....just saying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 a picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Geeze I could have sworn you said they were Gold Cad....Boy is my face is Red.Thanks Al for bringing it up....thanks even more Lamar for running out to the barn to clean one off.I see slight gold hints on mine under where the spindle was installed but its hard to tell for sure. I just assumed the plating was long gone and that's why they were not all gold.I have to admit, I have been following the 55'ers on this. Could it be that the 54's were silver Cad? I guess I may now find out how tough that powder really is when I have to blast it all off. Good thing I was busy and did not bake the rest.Fun fun fun eh.....ooops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I think they look great Bob. I did my 55 with a gold cad "look" powdercoat. I'm not sure what Lamar is trying to show. Mine (55, of course) were gold under the gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure what Lamar is trying to show. I'm just showing what I found when I took a kerosene soaked rag and cleaned all the grease and grime from a low mileage 1954 Roadmaster set of backer plates. Maybe I stripped the cad plating off but I don't think so. If I were you I'd seek answers from other '54 owners Bob.curses, now I've got to clean all of them or that spot will stand out like a sore thumb.Maybe I'll just put the grease back. Edited February 12, 2012 by MrEarl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm cool with that Brother, but that is still the exposed portion. I saw no gold color until removing the backing plate from axle shaft. I will defer to the 54 owners amongst us. HOWEVER, black paint will get you 400 points also.Just sayin'. There are a LOT of worriers here. My chassis judge was 16.Respectfully, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It is interesting to find things out when removing things that otherwise would be mostly either hearsay or the dreaded "because thats what everyone has done with it before".Mike, I, like you, look for the scraps of details that might give us insight into the truth about how the car was built. It is that CSI type of digging and noticing the details that lets us make the correct assumptions on the restoration. There are a number of things that I have found out about the colors and plating on my 57 that I have seen differently on other 57's that have been accepted as the norm. Not saying that it is going to be accepted on the judging field, but it is what I have encountered in my endeavors toward my restoration. Gold cad where others have shown silver, etc. Of course, documentation is difficult at best, since we don't have access to the supplier specifications that were provided to the supplier of choice in the era, and we don't have access to the engineers that wrote the specifications as well.All we have to go on is what the previous restorer's have done, and in our cases, what we have seen with our own eyes on the dissassembly of our vehicles. Can't say that it is right or wrong. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Geeze I could have sworn you said they were Gold Cad....If I did I don't recall what would have been the occasion. The last time I remember talking about it was when Fred was asking what color brake drums should be and I took a look at the same 54 Roadmaster and reported that I could find no paint on them but that the brake backing plates appeared to be either zinc or cad plated. Last night I cleaned the grease off the other front brake backing plate and actually found a splotch of bright yellow paint such as would be used for an inspection mark over the gray cad color so I am sure I didn't strip the cad plating and was seeing bare metal. Gold color cad had to come into being some time or another, perhaps it was '55. Hell just go with the Marine Corp way, when in doubt about what color to paint something, paint the sumbitch green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 If I did I don't recall what would have been the occasion.Yea I should clarify...I assumed it was Gold when you said Zinc or Cad plated simply due to the fact that I kept seeing the 55 ones and they sure stand out.I have other Buick things to do...I'll let this one simmer but it would seem that I will be going to Silver. I am concerned about how hard it will be to remove this powdercoat.Green eh...that sure would make everything a lot simpler!Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Bob, I think Eastwood sells a powder coat dissolving solution. Will they ship it to you? It looks like it might be what you need to change the color. However, I have found that the Gold Cad plating also oxidized to a gray coat, thinking that the sacrificial gold surface goes first.I have found that on a number of items on my 57 that I thought at first were silver cad, and when disassembled - the un-touched by the element surface was gold cad.That could be true with the brake backing plates, especially since they are very exposed to the elements. Don't fret about it. I think the gold is probably right and again, could be that different parts got different plating from different suppliers. Not sure the quality control was quite the same then as it is now. By the way, the gold looks better anyway. Gives is a nice contrast. There are lots of silver plated parts on the car, but not many gold cad.That's my 2 loonies worth!Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 When I pulled my backing plates off, they appeared to be a very light gold cad color. Nearly silver. The powdercoat can be blasted back off, but I don't think I would go through the trouble if I were you...but it's your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Well the more I think about it I would have gone Silver now based on Lamar's findings but the fact that I went through the trouble to mix my own powder and coat one plate I may just stay this way. I love the contrast as well. Who is to say there was a switch through the year, there are other switches that are correct for both 54 and 55's. Hell I was fooled once by the hood ornament on a 54 Super which was the same as a 53 RM.I will however hold off for a bit on the other three just in case I change my mind which seems to be as stable as wind direction right now. Edited February 12, 2012 by stealthbob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 All of the 55 plates I have worked with were gray on exposed surfaces and gold on the protected surfaces. A set of 54 plates that I acquired from a rodder are the same... maybe the car was late production and used 55 parts:confused:Leave them alone...they are too nice the way you have them now, and like Mike said black will get you 400 points.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The powdercoat can be blasted back off, but I don't think I would go through the trouble if I were you...but it's your car.As long as it is not the hi-temp powdercoat, you can bake it off in your oven on "self cleaning" mode (which I think pushes up to 900 degrees or so). Having mistakenly coated a part in the wrong color, and then attempting to bead blast it off -- I can tell you it is far, far quicker to bake it off. This is assuming you have a part that can withstand the temperature (please don't ask me how I know *that* piece of info...)@StealthBob -- what color/brand of powdercoat did you use for the Gold Cadmium approximation? That looks pretty damn good to me. I mixed up a batch of Silver cad using argent silver, blue and semigloss clear -- but it was a hassle and difficult to be consistent.Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Did some melting did we.....heheheI used 365Powder and mixed 1/2 cup Gold with thin tsps of Silver, Blue and Green each. The neat part is that he colour changes at different angles and light conditions. My first attempts on some practice pieces were waaaay too Yellow gold. I found also that I needed to "Fluidize" rather than mix the powder after combining, I jack the air up and wasted a bit out the gun which really mixed up the reservoir. I also experimented with blasting it off on the experimental pieces...OMG this stuff is TOUGH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Those look just fine Bob. BTW: Could you give us the exact mix/ratio formula used? That would save a lot of time for all of us who are now going to follow and copy what you did, I am in the process of setting up for powder coating myself. I have been considering calling around and asking appliance dealers and the like, to set aside a large electric oven, hopefully one with the nice necessary built-ins like digital timers, bake variance control and the likes. You know ones they may be considering hauling away cause they're just too ugly but work nicely. Another, idea is to just get some metal sheet and weld a nice large box up with side and front doors for access loading. Also install a divider for doing just small pieces. Then put in a pair of junk elements in the right locations to cover the real estate and a vent hole(s) to a duct that could have a fan attached for suction/venting of the oven. That way any large pieces could be done on site and as well as any small piece. Thinking going this route cause it seems I can get the gutted elements and controls easier from recyclers than finding the right sized and optioned electric oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Did some melting did we.....heheheA retaining bracket for AC system, was an alloy to which I found puddled in the bottom of the oven attempting to burn off some stubborn gaskets. DOH! Powdercoated fine at 375-400 degree's, but liquefied at 900. Lesson learned.Thanks for the tip on the Gold Cad -- that is certainly "close enough" in my book for a driver, and then some.Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I use a household freestanding oven/range that I picked up off of Craigslist for $50. It's in the garage (away from the wife) and shares the same 30amp 220v plug that I use for my welder, and just unplug one/plug the other when I need to use them. I am able to coat up to something the size of a tire rim, but nothing larger. The only other "large piece" solution I've seen for home use would be infrared panels and a laser thermometer , where you heat up sections of the part to temp and move the IR panels along as needed for proper curing. Theoretically you could do your frame and such with these, but would probably be less hassle to just ship it to your local powder coater.Budd Edited February 12, 2012 by Budd (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Great pics...those Silver parts look nice. I have the exact setup but got lucky when my parents switched to a gas range. Your point of having a separate oven for this is important. David, you seem to think BIG...nice! You are right that these can be built much larger and rather cheaply. I have seen many examples at the 365powder forums and also the Eastwoods forum has some great info as well.As for the formula, I went with a 1/2 cup of Gold and 2/3 tsps each of Silver, Blue, Green (No Clear) All powders were from 365powder except for the Satin Black which was from eastwoods. Honestly I think just staying with the Gold/Silver would be fine, it lowers the Yellow out of the gold and gives it that look that changes colour at different angles. I don't really see any of the Blue or Green in the final product but who knows. Edited February 12, 2012 by stealthbob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Budd, with the rim resting on the oven rack, does it leave a mark where it rested on the rack?Thanks,Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 All of the 55 plates I have worked with were gray on exposed surfaces and gold on the protected surfaces. A set of 54 plates that I acquired from a rodder are the same...WillieThat'll do. Thanks Willie. But can you see if you can report a little earlier next time. I'm gonna have a hekuva time matching that layer of grease and road grime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks for doing that for me Lamar..."Might as well", just clean the rest right?Which one of your old girls was that from....or was that O'll Texas Pete?The consensus is Gold...who am I to argue.Big thanks to all of you...I think I will go and turn on my oven. Edited February 12, 2012 by stealthbob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Budd, with the rim resting on the oven rack, does it leave a mark where it rested on the rack?Yes, it does. So I coat the rims twice -- first time doing the backside of the rim, then let it cool, and a second time flipped over to the front side. That way the exterior, more noticeable side, of the rim looks decent. The mark that the rack leaves on the back side is not that bad.I only do this for rims cause they're so heavy. Everything else I use stainless steel wire to hang.Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That'll do. Thanks Willie. But can you see if you can report a little earlier next time. I'm gonna have a hekuva time matching that layer of grease and road grime.Hey, what can I say...I'm old and slow.I think you're trying to convince ol' Bob to send you those nasty gold plates in exchange for the ones you pictured...practice until he gets it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I use a household freestanding oven/range that I picked up off of Craigslist for $50. It's in the garage (away from the wife) and shares the same 30amp 220v plug that I use for my welder, and just unplug one/plug the other when I need to use them. I am able to coat up to something the size of a tire rim, but nothing larger. The only other "large piece" solution I've seen for home use would be infrared panels and a laser thermometer , where you heat up sections of the part to temp and move the IR panels along as needed for proper curing. Theoretically you could do your frame and such with these, but would probably be less hassle to just ship it to your local powder coater.BuddBuddWhen you mount and balance tires have them static balanced with all of the weights on the inside...It looks better and keeps from scratching your coating. Believe me, the ride will be as smooth or smoother than tires balanced with weights scattered all over both sides of the rim.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budd Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 BuddWhen you mount and balance tires have them static balanced with all of the weights on the inside...It looks better and keeps from scratching your coating. Believe me, the ride will be as smooth or smoother than tires balanced with weights scattered all over both sides of the rim.WillieWill do Sir, thanks for the heads up.Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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