Scrappage Bill defeated

[Guest]

Found this piece of news in my mailbox this morning. It is good news but we must continue to be vigilante. It also shows that letters from voters can make a difference.<P>SCRAPPAGE IS DEFEATED ON U.S. SENATE FLOOR !<P><BR>Attention SEMA Action Network:<P>Thank you all for your hard work in opposing, and now defeating, the old<BR>car scrappage provision in the Energy Policy Act of 2002 (Section 822 of S.<BR>517).<P>In case you haven't heard the news, Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell's(R-CO)<BR>amendment to eliminate scrappage from the legislation was astonishingly enough passed by unanimous consent. In the end, even the principal sponsor of the scrappage provision, Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM), was<BR>not willing to oppose the Campbell amendment!<P>This is fantastic work, work that would not have been possible without the<BR>literally thousands of phone calls, faxes, emails and letters to U.S. Senators that SEMA Action Network vehicle clubs and individual enthusiasts were able to muster. Hobbyist efforts were cited by Senator Campbell and Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) as a compelling force in defeating this<BR>scrappage provision.<P>SEMA sincerely thanks everyone for their dedication, hard work, and willingness to protect the vehicle hobby today and to preserve for it for our children. This is an amazing victory and a testament to the<BR>powerful connection between the specialty aftermarket automotive industry and the<BR>American vehicle hobbyist community.<P>Job well done.<P>Brian Caudill<BR>Director of Public Affairs<BR>Specialty Equipment Market Association

[Dave@Moon]

Brian,<P>I hope you mean vigilant, not vigilante! <P>Simple logic has ruled the day this time. There will be others. <P>The next time the energy industry decides to try to railroad or back door this idea through Congress or some state legislature there won't be an Enron elephant sitting on the front porch! Make no mistake, in light of Enron and the anticipated investigations regarding the oil industry's relationship to the current adminstration's actions before and after 9/11/01, this baby was <I>allowed</I> to die. <P>From the energy companies' perspective, this battle will be better fought the next time we're all worried about somebody's dirty blue dress. <p>[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[rocketraider]

Dave- whatever works. If we have to be vigilante to keep the feds away from our toys, we do what we must when vigilant doesn't work.

[Guest]

Dave ~ The previous administration [Clinton's] wasn't exactly uninvolved with Enron's contributions.<P>Couldn't we be a bit more fair and acknowledge receipt of Enron's largesse by elected officials from <B>BOTH</B> parties. ~ hvs

[1937hd45]

I hope everyone realizes that this was a joint effort antique,street rod, racecar related owners. Power in numbers for sure.

[Dave@Moon]

Without a doubt, Enron was a cooperative effort among public enemies. That Enron gave 70% of their hush money to te G.O.P (why do they call it that when it's younger than it's only viable counterpart?) and 30% to the Dem's is probably accounted for by their ties with Bush in TX. They had to keep that nest feathered first, they lived there.<P>If you read Michael Moore's <I>(Roger & Me}</I> new book, <I>Stupid White Men</I>; once you get beyond his partisan rantings there are some very serious questions raised concerning the events after and leading up to 9/11 inside the White House re. assisting the oil companies with their Mid-East dealings, and how that <I>may</I> have contributed to the intelligence failures. It's not a load of flukes, there is some flesh to the it. <P>It's widely anticipated that further down the line a lot of people are going to have to answer for actions that either indirectly and unintentionally ran interference for the terrorists, or directly and unintentionally aided in their financing. There are numerous examples cited.<P>For instance the <I>New York Times</I> has reported that the Bush adminstration allowed a private Lear jet to remove the 20 or so members of the Bin Ladin family who happened to be in the U.S. on 9/11. It was the only private plane in the air on 9/12, and it was there over the stated objections of the FBI, CIA and NSA. None of them were suspects in the least, but for obvious reasons they should've been questioned for information ASAP. <P>It is these likely future developments that I was alluding to. If you were an oil executive right now, finding <I>any</I> way to keep a lower profile would be a good idea. And since it is extremely unlikely that the Bush administration will undertake any major air pollution actions, dropping the scrappage program push until it can be foisted upon the next adminstration can only be a good idea.<p>[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[Guest Dave Mills]

This issue of getting rid of the old cars seems to raise its ugly head every few years. Sooner or later the tree huggers and politicians will get together and push something through. We have been forunate so far...I hope it can continue to go our way.

[Dave@Moon]

Dave,<P>Pay attention to the issue more closely if you want to defeat these initiatives when they come up. "Tree huggers" don't believe one word of the spew that's used to justify these things. This is nothing more than industrial executives trying to get out of having to add stack gas scrubbers to their facilities. Nothing more/nothing less.<P>They justify crushing old cars by calculating presumed emissions based on 15,000 miles/yr and an often questionable assumption on the collective state of the vehicles' condition. They use these figures to trade off against their own emissions, cheaply avoiding having to do anything that cleans your air!<P>That's what <I>"Don't believe the hype!"</I> (below) is all about! <P>Unfortunately we are now under an adminstration who will have both ears open to anyone who can justify (read rationalize) the subversion of environmental regulation for the sake of economic gain. The EPA enforcement staffs' morale is at an all time low (or at least as low as it has been since 1981) for these very reasons.<P>Vigilance. It's never been needed more.

[Guest]

Of course the previous administration [Clinton's]had a different set of values. They traded our nuclear and defense secrets for campaign contributions.<P>So there is a choice between the two parties. I say your party will get us bombed to death by others and you say my party will get us polluted to death by ourselves. ~ hvs

[1937hd45]

Thank you Howard. Polution can be cleaned up, the Bubba mess will be with us forever.

[Dave@Moon]

I, like Mr. Moore, am largely an independant politically. That way I can evaluate issues and @$$holes using logic and facts, not by unquestionably accepting partisan rhetoric and innuendo as a replacement.<P>If Clinton, or any of his many cronies, actually did <I>anything</I> that resolutely treasonous, would Mr. Lott and his cronies have to spent $57 million and tie up 200+ FBI agents over a couple episodes of adulterous prison sex in the Oval Office trying to make their point?<P>Don't ask what those FBI agents might've uncovered in terms of real crime (or impending intrigue) at the end of the last millenium. <P>(see signature below)<p>[ 03-19-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[1937hd45]

That is about what Mr. Rich owed in back taxes, you know, the guy that bought the pardon.

[Dave@Moon]

If you want to write letters to try and get rid of the influence Mr Rich and Mr. Lay (No once could possibly make those names up!), contact your senator and rep. this week to support Sen. McCain's campaign finance reform bill. It's up for vote this week! <P>It'd probably do more to stop scrappage bills than anything we could directly impact.

[The Old Guy]

I have lived in the Flint MI area all my life,and I watched the rantings of Michael Moore before he became a star. His first book had many,many inaccuracies,and the movie had things taken out of context. I would caution you all to not believe all the hype in his latest missive.

[Guest]

Dave@Moon says we should not believe the hype. That should include his anti everything but what he believes hype. Typical left wing do gooder garbage.

[Dave@Moon]

I prefer <I>Evil Dark Lord of Independant Thought and Analysis.</I>

[ply33]

(Sound of soap box being pulled out of closet...)<P>While we are railing about our government, either too far left or too far right we ought to take a little quiz. Please stand up until you cannot truthfully answer the question as "yes":<P>Question 1) Please stand up if you are a true patriot as determined by your displaying the flag especially after Septermber 11th? Pretty much everyone here I bet.<P>2) Sit down if you did not vote at the last election? If this group is about average then nearly 4 out of 5 of you had better sit down.<P>3) Of those of you who voted, how many of you actually researched the records of the people you voted for AND those you voted against? And I don't mean simply looking at the nice glossy flyers that came in the mail or the 30 second TV sound bites! The rest of you please sit down.<P>My guess is that only a very, very few of us are still standing as good patriotic citizens.<P>You can rail against Clinton and Rich and/or Bush and Lay but until we as a nation take our citizen responsibilities seriously we will always have this type of government.<P>(Sound of soap box being dragged back into the closet.)

[Dave@Moon]

Hear, Hear Ply33! <P>Might I add that the research doesn't count unless the research centers on at least two distinctly different sources of information of differing perspectives. There are people who think that listening to Rush Limbaugh alone counts, and statistically they've been shown time and again to be the least informed people in America! (No wonder advertisers love them!) <P>You <I>have</I> to include a liberal newspaper with a conservative pundit. You <I>have</I> to include the hard news section of one paper along with the editorial section of another. One source is <I>always</I> slanted.<P>For instance, where I live the local media is quite "conservative", in the don't make waves for local businesses sense. There was a 13 year old struck and killed by a puck at an NHL hockey game this past week. The hockey team is 90 miles from here. The girl lived 35 miles from here. She died yesterday. This was the first non-racing natioanl sports spectator fatality in almost 25 years, and the NHL's first ever. It was a featured story on all national news outlets.<P>Where did the largest circulation newspaper in Cincinnati cover the story?<P>Page 5.<P><B>Of Section C!</B> <P>The grand opening preparations for the 17th local Wal-Mart literally warranted more coverage!<P>Know your sources of information! And....

[Dave@Moon]

Also, something else has been bugging me.<P>Since when did "doing good" become either "Liberal" or misguided?

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

Doing good is not what is liberal. It's just that the liberals think they know what is best for everybody and try to force it on the rest of us.

[Guest]

Tod ~ I'm still standing. <P>Dave ~ You mention comparing a liberal newspaper opinion with that of a conservative pundit. Why not a liberal paper with a conservative paper? Is that because there are none of the latter? ~ hvs

[ply33]

I guess I will rise and take the bait...<blockquote>Doing good is not what is liberal. It's just that the liberals think they know what is best for everybody and try to force it on the rest of us.</blockquote>I guess that makes some religious fundamentalists "liberals" too. They are trying to force their beliefs into our school system despite a constitutional prohibition. What it worse, they often try to jam it into the science curriculum.<p>Any time you make a public institution do your bidding, you are attempting to tell others what to do. Matters not if you are on the left, right or simply trying to line your pockets at the public till: You are attempting to tell others what to do.<p>So don't give me the hooey that it is only the liberals who try to force it on the rest of us.

[ply33]

hvs ~~ You posted while I was typing.... I am glad to see you are still standing I bet you are among the very few.

[Guest rcirilli]

I can't help but think that someone was really mean to Dave when he was young. And yea I'm still standing!

[Dave@Moon]

Howard,<P>You know, there seems to be an awful lot of conservative press wasted on the topic that there isn't any conservative press! Did you read my yarn about my local paper, it's so conservative one wonders if there are two politcal parties in Ohio.<P>There most certainly <I>are</I> conservative newspapers, even though it flies in the face of the general trend of increasing liberalism with increasing education. <P>In Pittsburgh, for instance, the smaller of the two local papers ran a three page major feature that, in essence, stated that Vince Foster had to have been murdered, He couldn't have shot himself with his right hand, because he was left handed you see. This major investigation was thoroughly researched, and was quite convincing, until....<P>...you looked at the photo of Mr. Foster that accompanied the piece, which showed him signing a document <B>with his right hand!!!</B> <I>60 Minutes</I> had a <I>ball</I> with that one!<P>Did I mention that this paper is owned by one of the RNC's chief financial backers? I didn't think so. <P>----------<P>Liberrals and conservatives are just convienent lables for people. One's views are just that, your own. I have views that are very conservative and some that are very liberal. Hal and Ply33 both have the right idea, foisting those views on others is the problem. <P>I see scrappage progams for what they are, a "conservative" group foisting it's ideas on society. I have a lot of inside information to support that, which I've exposed here liberally (polite pause for appropriate groans). Others see scrappage as a "liberal" concept being foisted on them, because someone told them that's who's doing it. The person who told them that may believe it, but they most certainly came to that point of view by way of someone who has an agenda served by such mis-direction. Just as someone's agenda was so well served by mis-directing so many on Mr. Clinton's methods and motivations.<P>The problem isn't the label, it's the conceit of presumption.<P>Noone holds exclusive title to this conceit. It's just <I>a lot</I> more convienient to identify it in the opposing camp. It's just as wrong to automatically assume that a bureaucratic monolith will be able to solve inner city poverty as it is to automatically believe that Rev. Pinkyring and Father Diddle (oops, I mean faith-based organizations) can do it. <P>Education is the key, not believing the hype.<p>[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[Guest]

Ahhh... the infamous problems of a two party system. Try a three (or more) party system for a time and try to guess who is the one doing the high wire act on the fence in the middle, they call them liberals here. Usually they take turns here walking the wire because no one wants to be seen as not brave enough to do it blind folded, which is typically how politicians do the high wire. You can't tell who is a liberal here without a score card because it changes from minute to minute.

[Guest]

Dave ~ Shame on you. In one of your previous posts of today, you mentioned that the girl killed at a hockey game was the first spectator death nationally outside of auto racing in 25 years.<P>Now either you or USA Today, not known to the best of my knowledge to be a conservate voice, are stating as fact an untrue statement to lend weight to the position taken.<P>To quote USA Today, March 20, 2002, page 1, section C, "Cecil, --------, is believed to be the first fan killed at an NHL game by a puck leaving the rink and traveling over the glass, though fans have died at lower levels of hockey."<P>I'm sure there is an escape clause in there somewhere for either of you, but I just had to bring this up. `hvs<p>[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]

[Dave@Moon]

Escape clause: I said national sport. "Lower levels of hockey" (minor leagues) are regional in nature! <P>Just a bubble-headed liberal trying to hold on!