Engine Controls detect electrical problem

[Guest ssantoro]

I hope someone can help me! I have a 1989 Reatta. Right at the New Year 2012, after about 20 minutes or so, my computer screen shows "Engine Controls detect electrical problem". Then it goes off and comes back. Over and over. I took it to my mechanic who said my computer was crashing his, so he ordered a rebuilt computer and installed it. He said he tested it and it showed no faults. 20 minutes after leaving the shop, it showed the same message. I accessed the trouble codes myself (via the Climate Screen) but it showed no ECM, BCM or PIC codes at fault. I did however clear the ECM, BCM and codes reset hoping that would solve it. It didn't. Anyone have any idea what this might be? I'd so appreciate any help you might give me. I've had the car since it was nearly new and have never had this problem before (though this is my third computer). I am in Los Angeles and am still looking for a good mechanic on the west side. I am still going to one I like in Glendale but it's very inconvenient. -- Scott

[Ronnie]

You might have a a bad connection. It could cause the problem you describe. Check the ground and power connections behind the battery. This may help"

Negative Junction Box Location*-*ReattaOwner.com

There is also the possibility that you have a bad connection on the battery cables. I had a similar problem that was caused by a bad cable. Read this about it:

Battery Cable Repair*-*ReattaOwner.com

[Guest ssantoro]

Thanks Ronnie. I'll check that out tomorrow. The beeping is driving me insane.

[Ronnie]

Here is a link to the full story about my battery cable problem.

http://forums.aaca.org/f116/interesting-abs-malfunction-272166.html

[waltmail]

Quick story and it probably doesn't apply to you, though it may. I had the same problem for years. Drove me crazy. Never found the source. A few months back, my water pump went bad, engine threw the belt, belt shredded and wiped out the harmonic balancer and crank position sensor. I replaced the balancer. Crank position sensor, et al. Nag screen and beeps went away, seemingly for good. Coincidence?

[KDirk]

May also be the MEM-CAL not seated well inside the ECM. Since the ECM has been replaced before (OP says it is on the third computer) the MEM-CAL has been disturbed before. Hopefully it is not bad, as GM no longer supplies replacements and a new one would have to come from a parts car.

I only point this out because I had this problem on my 88 constantly until I repaired the MEM-CAL module by removing it from it's plastic clam shell and doing some soldering. The EPROM is soldered into the carrier module (the part with the blue top and brown bottom piece). If any pins on the EPROM are not making good contact in the carrier module, it can cause this issue. I had it constantly in the 88 until I fixed it by re soldering the pins of the EPROM into the carrier. Happy to say I've not had this warning since then.

Finally, do not discount the possibility of a bad [rebuilt] computer. I had two that were bad while I was trying to find the problem that I outlined above. Rebuilt modules have a surprisingly high failure rate in my experience, along with alternators.

KDirk

[Guest ssantoro]

Thanks, everybody, for your help. This morning, I've made note of what happens: Every time, the message does not come on until about 18-20 minutes, and around that time the engine temperature is about 197 F. After that, the message only comes up when I accelerate. When I stop at a traffic light, it will go off and stays off until I accelerate again. This repeated over and over, so I have to think this must have something to do with the problem.

[Guest Copper81]

I know that this will not make any sense but my 88 was giving me intermittent "Electrical Problem" error messages. I had also been having problems with the oil pressure spiking to very high readings due to a faulty oil pressure sensor (typical problem). In fact, often I would see the pressure spike and see the electrical problem error message show up together. I finally changed the oil pressure sensor and oddly enough the "Electrical Problem" error messages stopped showing up. I can't explain it but thought I would mention this for any help that it may provide.

[padgett]

Are you sure there are no codes being set ? Is the cover for the ALDL connector in place (it completes the LAN loop). Cover is by the parking brake and says "do not remove" so is easy to spot. 88 cover is different from later ones.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

All the responses tendered make perfect sense. This error message is a catch all for problems that are defected by one of the computers where an expected input is out of the range of acceptable limits. (That includes missing)

There are two error messages on the CRT that don't seem to be documented anywhere I can find that relay an indication of a problem with no real insight into what the specific problem is. (There is also a problem display on the IPC but that one is discussed in the FSM.) This Engine Controls one and a Computer Communication Problem Detected.

As most have figured out by now, there are many circuits in the car that won't set a trouble code that can be called up in diagnostics. And if you have read the information on many of the trouble codes in the FSM you will find many codes aren't set until an out of range condition exists for a specific length of time.

I believe when the the ECM detects a situation where a data input fails a range test and / or doesn't meet the condition for one of the trouble codes to be issued, it results in the issuance of an Engine Controls Electrical problem.

A good first step is to clean the battery terminals and the common positive and ground connections under the hood. A poor connection will cause problems with the various sensors. As has been suggested, trying to identify when the message pops up with what is going on at the time may help tie the message to a particular sensor. Also check the gauge display to see if a strange reading is indicated. Running in diagnostics mode an looking at the various real time sensor readings may also indicate a problem. As Kevin indicated there may also be an issue inside the ECM that makes it believe there is a problem with the data when there isn't also.

Really have to use your best Inspector Columbo skills to figure these out.

The Communication Problem display indicates one computer isn't receiving an expected input from another computer or component. This can be a problem with the data bus, ALDL, or a hard wired connection. This can also indicate a failure of a circuit inside one of the modules. When the O2 sensor circuit inside my ECM went bad, I got this message and the speedometer, oil pressure and temp displays went to 0. Also got trouble code for the O2 circuit. Replacing the ECM fixed all.

When the IPC electrical problem display illuminates, it can be calling attention to one of these messages, or that the SES light isn't functioning. That issue is discussed in the FSM and on Ronnie's site as well.

The amount of computer control in out Reattas is amazing, but programming and memory size was still limited so much information was lost in the cracks that better hardware and OBD II development improved upon. Too bad they didn't keep building the tech tool interface and readout into cars like they did in the earlier Rivieras and Reattas.

[padgett]

Actually quite a few GM cars respond to the OFF/WARM buttons just no question, the 88-89 CRT is the best built-in however even OBD-2 readers are under $50 if you have a PC.

[DAVES89]

Something totally off the wall, but as McReatta said go to the guage page and watch the gauges, maybe the alternator not "keeping up"?

BTW you better come back with the answer to the problem or we will send out our best blood hound to hunt you down...

[KDirk]

Speaking of gauges, while this may not be pertinent to the issue at hand, I will mention it as I found it interesting. When I was having my ECM/MEM-CAL problems the gauge page [ok, GAGE in GM speak] would often zero the tach (no data in) but the volt meter would continue to work. The interesting part [to me anyway] is that the temperature gauge would hold whatever reading was last received indefinitely, rather than reading COLD or HOT (defaulting to end of range one way or the other). I seem to recall the oil pressure holding last good reading received as well, as I never got a low oil pressure warning under those circumstances.

Just found it odd that the temp and oil readouts would hold the last received value before the ECM went offline, rather than showing the default reading at what would be no sensor input. I guess it has to do with the fact the CRTC probably only updated those displays on receipt of a new value that differed from what was last displayed. In the absence of any new data, it simply put up what was stored in the respective data variable. The voltage was being read in from BCM data parameters, so that readout continued to operate normally.

I too am a bit surprised at the number of critical faults that do not set a code in the Reatta. For all the diagnostic ability built into the E platform for 88/89, it seems to miss a lot of things that one would expect it to positively detect.

KDirk

[padgett]

FWIW, that is how an IBM 3270 mainframe terminal works, only change values received, was common when terminals were on slow serial lines.

[Guest ssantoro]

Well, my mechanic found the problem. As I understand it, there was a magnet on the cam shaft that had disintegrated and the sensor was getting a faulty reading from it. It was expensive to fix but at least he found it and it's working again and not driving me insane beeping at me anymore.

[padgett]

If we had known it was a code 41...

[Guest ssantoro]

Yes, that would have been helpful to know. If this is what old electronic systems do in cars, I hate to think what is going to happen to all those old missiles sitting in silos just waiting for a misread code.