1934 Cadillac V-16 Custom Roadster

[Pomeroy41144]

I was looking at the February 2012 issue of Hemmings Motor News. On page 266, in the Cadillac section, is an advertisement for the Milhous Collection Auction, which is to be held in February. At the top of the ad is a photo of an automobile identified as a "1934 Cadillac Sixteen Custom Roadster -- Design by Fleetwood."

On page 189 of "80 Years of Cadillac La Salle", by Walter M.P. McCall, there appears an artist rendition of an automobile identified as a V-16 "Fleetwood Roadster"; "style number 5802." The caption goes on to say that no such auto was ever built. The artist rendition on page 189 closely resembles the auto on the top of page 266 in the current Hemmings.

Is the McCall history wrong? Is the Milhous Collection 1934 Cadillac V-16 Custom Roadster actually a Fleetwood 5802, a body style purported not to exist by the McCall Cadillac book?

Thanks ahead of time.

Pomeroy41144

I'm not trying to pile on but I found it interesting that the author or editors of the book mentioned above were unable to identify famed aviator Roscoe Turner, who can be seen posing with a 1934 Lasalle in a photo on page 190, referring to the flamboyant Turner as "an unidentified VIP customer".

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

The car in the Millhous collection is a replica.

[Pomeroy41144]

The car in the Millhous collection is a replica.

What do you mean? The body is a replica? The whole car? Please explain.

Thanks.

PP

[alsancle]

I'm sure the chassis is original V16 Caddy (although it may have been lengthened) but the body is a 100% recent fabrication by I believe Fran Roxas.

[Pomeroy41144]

Thanks for the info.

PP

[Pomeroy41144]

I've been thinking about this---the car is not a replica. Since no car like this was ever built, then there can be no replica. It is an one-off custom body built on a Cadillac Chassis. Can they call it a Fleetwood, since Fleetwood did not build it?

And the 1937 V-16 Convertible Sedan, that is a replica/custom too?

Can anybody provide a link that gives more details about these cars?

Thanks

PP

[trimacar]

Ah, but they say "Fleetwood Design", not "built by Fleetwood", big difference.

Thus, I could build a replica Darrin body on a Packard chassis, using original drawings, and call it a "Darrin Design".

There are a LOT of cars out there with replica or replacement bodies, from brass cars on up......

[Pomeroy41144]

Thanks Trim.

They are great looking cars.

It will be interesting to see what they go for when the hammer falls.

PP

[Guest South_paw]

V-16's are like LS-6 Chevelle's. Somehow there are more today then there was yesterday :D:D

[jim43]

I remember magazine articles from back when Fran Roxas was building this and other cars. His work is pretty amazing it seems. I like history and authenticity, but I don't think it would bother me too much that knowing I had an original design, that had to wait decades to be built due to economic hard times.

You might try the Google out on Fran Roxas, you might find some information.

Jim43

[llopdoro]

Regarding this car I am attaching a picture extracted from an auction catalog I do not remember the year but I know it is after 1994 and before 2000 where you can see the information you need to know.

You also can see this car in the Yann Saunders' Cadillac DataBase under the page: drm3336

Philippe Hulet de Limal

Florenville

Belgium

[West Peterson]

V-16's are like LS-6 Chevelle's. Somehow there are more today then there was yesterday :D:D

Actually, and no disrespect intended, I'm pretty sure that there have been no V-16s made since they were originally cast. As far as the LS-6, it is easy to "re-create" that engine, but they were quite plentiful to begin with. There were just under 5,000 built.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Fran Roxas work seems pretty highly respected, and he is well known, but I am surprised at how little info there is out there on him via Google... I guess he is one of those guys who has been successful in staying off the Internet, not sure they are still building bodies?

[llopdoro]

a few days ago I was speaking with Yann Saunders again, he is a friend from long date and we have prleasure to speak about Cadillacs. I am on Facebook and I am publishing pictures of beautiful cars, especially cars which are for sale all around the world. Yann said to me he remembered to have seen a second car like this one in pale green color. Is it this one or is it an second one, we do not know, I said to him all I am knowing is that the cream car was sold by Dean Kruse during the second half of the nineties and that now is always the same color.

Now, what is the mystery of a possible second car? somebody does know about it???

[llopdoro]

Here is a review about the cream car:

One good turn deservesanother. In the early 1980s, renowned Chicago-area restorer Fran Roxas built acar that never was. Starting with a rendering in a Cadillac catalog forFleetwood custom bodies, which showed some innovative styles that could becreated for discerning customers, he built a faithful rendition of Style <st1:metricconverter w:st="on" ProductID="5859, a">5859, a</st1:metricconverter> sleek dual cowlphaeton. This was no quick job. He turned to Strother MacMinn, an industryveteran stylist and long-time instructor at the prestigious Art Center Collegeof Design in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Pasadena</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">California</st1:state></st1lace>. MacMinn in turn enlisted DavidHolls, Head of Advanced Design at General Motors, who produced a set offull-scale chassis blueprints for the Sixteen. Working from the blueprints, MacMinnscaled the catalog rendering up to full size. Constructed on a 1937 Sixteenchassis, it now resides in the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Pack</st1lacename> <st1:placename w:st="on">Automotive</st1lacename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Museum</st1lacetype></st1lace>being purchased from the Milhous Collection in 2012.

By the early 1990s Roxas was restless again. The same catalog had a renderingof a stunning Cadillac Sixteen roadster, identified as Style 5802. As with thephaeton, this style had been illustrated but never built. Roxas again workedwith MacMinn and Holls to bring the roadster to life.

The project turned out to be more ambitious than the phaeton, but MacMinn wasup to the task. The rendering clearly showed a metal-covered compartment forthe lowered top. On the driver’s side was a golf bag door, evidence of a rumbleseat. MacMinn devised a rumble seat with a disappearing cover, which slid downbehind the seat to become virtually hidden when open. The Sixteen’s generouswheelbase left plenty of room for a luggage compartment, but this made entry tothe rumble seat difficult. A series of step plates on the side would haveruined the lines. MacMinn cleverly designed a passenger door in the right sidethat made the seat easily accessible from ground level.

A low-mileage 1935 Cadillac Sixteen Seven-Passenger Limousine became thechassis donor. The car takes its chassis number from this car, but Roxasfavored the more attractive “bi-plane” bumpers of the 1934 Cadillacs. Havingproved a bit fragile in ordinary use, they were replaced for 1935 by heavyconventional bar bumpers, the principal distinguishing feature of that year. Ashow car demanded a finer line of aesthetics, so the aircraft inspired ’34bumpers were used instead.

Painted a light shade of yellow, the car is very handsome, set off with a darkgreen leather interior. There is matching green carpet on the floor. Craftsmanshipis exceptional throughout and the condition outstanding. The steering wheel isthe banjo-spoke “Flex wheel,” its black plastic rim unblemished. The dashboardinstruments have all been carefully restored, and the carpeted luggagecompartment is a tonneau cover for use when the top is down. Underneath, thecar is clean and tidy, with all mechanical elements painted black. The enginecompartment is similarly perfectly presented.

This Cadillac Sixteen Custom Roadster is remarkable not only for its beauty butfor its sophisticated and complex construction. The Fleetwood engineers andcraftsmen of the 1930s could not have done it any better. The MilhousCollection acquired the car from Fran Roxas in 1995, and it has enjoyed prideof place in the museum for a decade and a half, also being shown at <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Pebble</st1lacename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Beach</st1lacetype></st1lace>in the mid-1990s. As new owner, the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">Pack</st1lacename> <st1:placename w:st="on">Automotive</st1lacename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Museum</st1lacetype></st1lace>has a chance to enjoy this singular piece of automotive history that wasconceived by the geniuses at Fleetwood and brought to fruition by the finestcraftsmen in the hobby.