I want an "original" carb -- 1964 Riviera

[telriv]

Brian,

 

   Just to let you know that your check has arrived.

 

Lets make further contact through my e-mail address & we can work out the details. 

 

telriv@yahoo.com

[bepnewt]

... time passes ...

 

Tom came through with a beautiful carb for me a while back.  I finally have time to install it.  Should I put any gasket sealer on the main gasket?  If so, which side?

 

-BEP

[bepnewt]

I was told no sealer by someone so I mounted the carb dry.  

 

I hooked the the hoses up by guessing based on the other Carter carb I'm replacing.  There's nothing hooked up to the brass-looking tube near the top on the back side.  There's also nothing hooked into the trans modulator valve.  

 

I shot a video showing what it looks like now.  When you have a minute, please take a look and see what I am missing or have incorrect. 

 

https://youtu.be/bdlKP2HOI6M

 

In the closeup pic Es posted above, there is a white plastic thing mounted to the manifold.  I don't have one of those.  Do I need one?

 

Thanks, all.

-BEP

[KongaMan]

This probably goes without saying, but did you install the metal plate between the carb and gasket?

[bepnewt]

Sure did.  Tom provided one for me. 

 

-BEP

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, bepnewt said:

I was told no sealer by someone so I mounted the carb dry.  

 

I hooked the the hoses up by guessing based on the other Carter carb I'm replacing.  There's nothing hooked up to the brass-looking tube near the top on the back side.  There's also nothing hooked into the trans modulator valve.  

 

I shot a video showing what it looks like now.  When you have a minute, please take a look and see what I am missing or have incorrect. 

 

https://youtu.be/bdlKP2HOI6M

 

In the closeup pic Es posted above, there is a white plastic thing mounted to the manifold.  I don't have one of those.  Do I need one?

 

Thanks, all.

-BEP

The tube at the top of the air horn is a fresh air supply for the hot air choke.  It should have a tube running to the bottom end of the tube running through the exhaust manifold.

 

The line for the transmission modulator is threaded to an outlet in the bottom back corner on the passenger's side.  

 

The hose screwed into the back of the intake is the supply for all of the vacuum needed for the heat and a/c controls in the console via the canister on the passenger side inner fender.

 

You have quite a bit of sorting out to do there my friend.?

Edited September 24, 2016 by RivNut
effing predictive text (see edit history)

[RivNut]

PS - I watched the entire video again and the threaded end you need for the transmission modulator is on the hard line connected to the hose coming from the intake.  The bright fitting on the bottom of the carb is the fitting into which the modulator line is screwed.  The tube at the air horn is not a vacuum line, it's just a fresh air supply.  It can stay "as is" and it will not effect anything.  I couldn't see the inner fender so I can't tell if you're missing the vacuum canister or if it is there how it's hooked up.

[telriv]

Ed is correct in what he mentioned. Where the hose is hooked up to the manifold is where the vacuum is used for the HVAC controls. Remove that hose from the line & screw that line into the fitting on the r/rear of the carb. This runs down to the modulator valve on the trans. Run a vacuum hose from the fitting on the manifold to the black circular plastic canister on the right fender-well. The only other thing I noticed is the brake line goes UNDER the linkage NOT over as pictured. If the HOT air tube is not hooked up to the fitting off the choke housing the choke will NEVER open all the way.

I thought you were going to install the electric choke??? If you use the electric choke set-up you have you will need to block that inlet for the hot air supply or you will have a small vacuum leak. If you start the car & put your finger over the part you will feel a slight suction.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[bepnewt]

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I'll do more on this during this week, I hope.

 

Re: Choke - I said something in our email exchanges about an electric choke.  I had been watching general carb installation videos and they had electric so had it in my head that mine was electric, too.  It was a brain fart moment.

 

I used the round plastic black choke adjustment thingy off of the other carb I had.  The spring was different, though.  I'll attach a pic of the one that got cracked (left side) and the one that I had (right side) and used.  If I need to swap springs, let me know. I watched a video on how to set the choke initially on these type chokes.

 

-BEP

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by bepnewt (see edit history)

[telriv]

It really tees me off that after packing so well that it came through with a broken choke housing. If the housing you have is from the other 3665s carb. you have just use it as it is. If you want to clean up the spring it can be removed easily (try not to stretch it out of shape) enough by lifting the spring part out of the plastic notch. OR, you could swap springs. Just make sure you orientate them in the correct facing position. If you are going to use the original hot air set-up you will need to run two 1/4" pipes. One from the choke housing fitting to the top rear of the right exhaust manifold (hot air supply) & one from brass nipple of the top rear of the carb. air horn (fresh air supply) to under the manifold in the bottom middle. You will more than likely have to drill out the broken/rotted pieces from the top rear & bottom middle of the exhaust manifold. I usually do this with a drill bit slightly smaller than 1/4" & the broken/rotted pieces will just come out easily. You shouldn't have to drill more than 1/2" or so. Go too deep & you run the possibility of going through the air tube that goes through the manifold. As a matter of fact after you get the car started & BEFORE drilling see if you can feel/hear any exhaust coming out of the rear of the tube. Very seldom have I encountered a bad tube through the manifold. If you can feel/hear exhaust you will have to purchase a repair kit that clamps around the manifold  For the hot air side (to the rear top of the manifold) I normally use a copper line. You can get the correct heat covering at many of the Corvette suppliers. The choke housing brass nut can be purchased at your local NAPA or other auto parts store & maybe even your local hardware store. Then you will have to flare the end that goes to the choke housing. The fresh air side from the top rear of the carb. air horn you can use a piece of 1/4" aluminum tubing. These pieces will NOT rot/rust. OR, you could go all out & use stainless tubing. The pieces should go into the manifold about 1/2".

Let me know if I can be of any more help. Almost wish I was close enough to help or do it for you.

You will have to ask for pictures from some of the members who may still have the original hot air & fresh air supply tubing still on their cars to get a visual of the orientation of how this tubing is run.

Any members able to help Brian with some pictures????

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[telriv]

One thing I forgot to mention. The 1/4" tubing I'm talking about is 1/4" OD       NOT ID.

[bepnewt]

Thanks so much for all the great information.

 

I'm on a deadline at work that won't allow me to do anything productive at home for about a week.  I'll pick back up on this after these design docs are completed.

 

-BEP

[telriv]

Out of ALL the 1st. Gen owners on this forum NOBODY has any pictures for Brian to look at to help him to determine the proper routing of these choke tubes???

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[bepnewt]

I hope to have time Sunday to get back on this.  I'll thoroughly read yours and Ed's posts to see what I can get done myself.  After I do make some progress, I'll post some updated pics.

 

There's a guy about 1.5 miles away that has a '64 Riv in his driveway that isn't in great condition.  I spoke to him once and I think he said it was his fathers many years ago.  I'm going to see if I can catch him and take a look at his engine to see if it has everything hooked up.

 

-BEP

[telriv]

I can't believe with OVER 3400 views NO ONE has sent Brian ANY pictures.

[telriv]

Wonderin' how you made out Brian???? Get the time yet to install???

Hope your Thanksgiving was "Stuffing" & an even HAPPIER MERRY CHRISTMAS.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[Chasander]

Inline tube in Michigan have the tubes listed on there web site

[bepnewt]

The carb is still sitting there bolted onto the manifold.  My life has been and is still: wake up, go to work, come home from work, eat, log back into work, sleep.  Rinse and repeat.  On weekends, it's get out of bed, log into work, go to bed.  It's been this way since the beginning of October.

 

This cycle isn't going to stop until some time in mid-January ( I hope ).  At that point, I will be able to look at the car.

 

I appreciate you checking up on me, I just wish I had better news.

 

-BEP

[bepnewt]

Well, I had a local Buick Guru set up to come over and I was going to pay him to get it all hooked up correctly but he didn't show and has gone ghost.

 

I looked at the instructions again on the previous page and did my best to move things around where I thought they went.  Here is a current video of what I have going.  Am I getting close?  I'm sure the instructions by Ed and Tom are spot on, but I don't know what half the car parts they mentioned are so I just kind of winged it and guessed.

 

Latest Cab Video on YouTube

 

-BEP

[telriv]

Run the vacuum advance hose UNDER the A/C bracket. Either shorten or tie down the fuel line hose so when air cleaner is installed it won't rub. Other than that ALL looks OK to start.

[bepnewt]

Thanks, Tom.

 

I moved the vacuum hose and I shortened the fuel line.  I probably should have tied the fuel line down because it does rub when I have the air cleaner set on the carb.  Now, it's so short, there's no slack to tie it down.  I'm heading to the auto parts store anyway after I know what set screw(?) to get so I'll get some more hose while I am there.

 

The aftermarket carb that was on the car when I bought it had an aftermarket air cleaner as seen in the first pic of this thread.  I do have an air cleaner that is supposed to be for this '64.  The air cleaner sits well on the carb but the lid fits inside of the cleaner.  Is this correct?  I could see it being correct if the filter is what holds it up.  I'll attach a picture.

 

Also, I don't have the set screw that holds the air cleaner lid down on the air cleaner.  Does anyone know what size set screw I need - length, diameter, and threads-per-inch?

 

Tom - I need to get the bad carb and parts I have mailed off to you.  Is the Cook St. address where I should send it?

 

-BEP

[RivNut]

Get a piece of all-thread that will screw into the top of the carb and a wing nut that screws onto it.  Figure out how long it needs to be and cut it off.  The correct air filter has a flange on it that supports the lid.  The proper orientation is for the snorkel to point towards the power steering pump. There are tabs on the air cleaner that align with posts on the carb. 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by RivNut (see edit history)

[bepnewt]

Good deal.  It finally hit me that I had the messed up carb still so I took it to the hardware store and got a bar of all-thread that fit it along with a matching wingnut.  Thanks, Ed.

 

I ordered a filter, it will be at the parts store tomorrow.

 

The old dirt and grease was caked on the air cleaner pretty good.  I decided to use a wire wheel to get it clean and that of course took off the paint.  So, after I finish taking all the paint off, I'll have to repaint the air cleaner.  I planned on using a black high-heat rustoleum spray.  Is there a better option than that?

 

-BEP

[bepnewt]

I forgot to mention... IT'S ALIVE!

 

She started right up with very little coaxing.  In fact, it was easier to start it this time after a year of sitting than it was back with the previous carburetor.  I will need to tweak the choke and idle some but man, that felt good hearing the roar of the Nailhead after sooooo long.

 

-BEP

[telriv]

That's good to hear Brian. Glad ALL worked out to your satisfaction!!!!

Yes, the same address.

 

 

Tom T.

[Chasander]

Last time I needed an Air Filter, Advance  auto could get one.

[telriv]

Brian,

 

Ever get a chance to box up those old carbs. & parts???

 

 

Tom T.

[bepnewt]

The old carb was finally mailed today to the Cook St. address.

 

Thanks again.

 

-BEP

[telriv]

Brian,

  Just to let you know the parts arrived today. As was mentioned this is ONLY good for a FEW parts. The rest is trash.

 

                        Thank you,

 

                                                                Tom T.

 

 

[telriv]

Brian,

 

  Just checking in. Hope you've had time to drive your car being that your work schedule is so demanding.

How's the car running with the supplied carb.???

 

 

Tom T.

[bepnewt]

On 6/28/2017 at 7:10 PM, telriv said:

Brian,

  Just to let you know the parts arrived today. As was mentioned this is ONLY good for a FEW parts. The rest is trash.

 

                        Thank you,

 

                                                                Tom T.

 

 

 

Yes, it was definitely unfortunate, since it was sold to me as a carb to rebuild.

 

-BEP

[bepnewt]

17 hours ago, telriv said:

Brian,

 

  Just checking in. Hope you've had time to drive your car being that your work schedule is so demanding.

How's the car running with the supplied carb.???

 

 

Tom T.

 

I drove it the day I got it fired up.  I tried to start it about a week later and couldn't get it to turn over.  After syphoning out as much of the bad gas as I could with what I had, I added about 4 gallons of ethanol free fuel and that didn't help.  I don't think any gas is making it to the carb, now.  I think I need to bypass the tank and have it pull good gas from a can or something so I can see what is going on.  I also need to replace the fuel filter.

 

Is there an easy way to get all the gas out of the tank besides trying to syphon it?

 

My friend's uncle who knows all things about cars and engines is going to come visit sometime soon to help me get it started if my friend will drive him over here.  I'd rather not wait until that day if I can figure some of it out myself.  The heater and AC don't work so this is some good weather for me to drive it in.

 

-BEP

[telriv]

Brian,

 

   You can dis-connect the fuel supply hose at the fuel pump. You may have to plug the end to keep fuel from running out, (if it does run out you now have a siphon started)  to see if it will start with fresh fuel. Get a gas can & run a hose from the can on the floor to the fuel pump inlet. Since you have A/C with a return line you will need to dis-connect the return line from the filter & plug the end at the filter. This shouldn't take you any more than 15-20 minutes. Then try to start the car. If it won't start open the choke & pump the gas with your hand to see if fuel is being sprayed from the accelerator pump. If no fuel get a small funnel, or what's nec. to dump fuel into the front breather tubes (brass in color on the top of the carb.) to fill up the float bowls. Now try to pump the gas by hand & see if any fuel is spraying. Close the choke & try to start. If it still won't start check for spark. Pull the coil wire from the distributor cap & keep it about 1/4" from a good ground to see if you have any spark.

 

   Report back

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[bepnewt]

Update time.

 

A coworker came over and we diagnosed the issue.  The fuel pump was dead.  We replaced that, the fuel filter, and some of the hose and now she starts up.

 

She isn't running well, though.  There is definitely one thing that isn't plugged into the carb that needs to be and is causing a vacuum leak and there may be a leak elsewhere, too.

 

I don't have a pic of the new carb from Tom on the car.  This pic is an old carb but it has an arrow pointing to something that I think needs a vacuum hose or something on it.  On my car right now, the thing sticking out doesn't have anything on it nut feels like it is sucking air.  Is there a hose that belongs on it?  If so, where does the other end go?

 

Right now, after the engine warms up, it runs better when the choke is open, not closed.  Very odd.

 

-BEP

 

[RivNut]

That "thing sticking out" is the hot air inlet for the choke.  A separate tube runs from a tube inside the exhaust manifold and supplies hot air to the choke coil.

 

 

[RIVNIK]

Hey Ed! Are you positive that the gasket goes under the steel plate? If so, mine is "backward", with the steel plate stuck pretty tightly to the manifold with some unknown sealant, & the paper gasket between the plate & carb. This is a '65 (Carter AFB)

[RivNut]

Steel plate needed to keep corrosive gasses away from aluminum base of the carb.  Steel against the base of the carb for heat transfer.  Fiber gasket on manifold so horseshoe channel allows the flow of gasses (heat) through passages.   Steel plate on manifold would block passages. Fiber gasket against carb would act as insulator.  Make sense?

[bepnewt]

17 hours ago, RivNut said:

That "thing sticking out" is the hot air inlet for the choke.  A separate tube runs from a tube inside the exhaust manifold and supplies hot air to the choke coil.

 

 

 

Thanks, Ed.  The carb I pulled off of my car didn't have an automatic choke so this tube likely doesn't exist on my car right now.  Is it easy to describe where on the exhaust manifold the tube connects?

 

-BEP

[telriv]

Brian,

 

  Your answer is around post #50.

 

 

Tom T.

[RivNut]

I can't explain it put here are pictures of the manifolds .  There are different casting numbers for different manifolds for 64, but they're all correct.  The tube may be in a slightly different place,  but you'll get the idea.

 

Passenger's side manifold. The manifold is not oriented as it would be on the car. The tube will be pointing up and to the rear. 

The hot air tube (from the choke housing on the carb) is tapered on the end and is inserted into the tube sticking out of the manifold it has a fitting on the other end that screws to the choke housing - (your latest inquiry.)

 

 

The same manifold from the bottom.  The other end of the tube.  A hose runs from this end of the tube to the nipple on the air horn of the carb.  Fresh filtered air supply.  

 

 

So, let's review hoses and lines.  

Top left front of carb, line  - fuel inlet

Bottom left front of carb, hose - vacuum advance to distributor

Bottom left back of carb, line - vacuum modulator on transmission

Top left on air horn, hose - filtered air supply to bottom of exhaust manifold

Bottom rear of carb, Tee - hoses to:  power brake booster, and PCV valve in passenger's side valve cover.

 

Ed