Guest rronharmon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Hey out there, I have no clue as to what I'm doing, but I've decided to sell my 1958 Packard Hawk. I simply will never get around to restoring it. Bought it several years ago with no title from a storage yard in CA. It does not have the supercharger. I dropped a tree on the front fenders and pretty much ruined my thoughts of restoration. Is it better to sell it as is, the engine does turn, and I can make it run. Or is it better to part it out. It still looks decent and certainly is in restorable condition. Thanks for any help or advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Please post some pictures and your location.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I do not have a clue as to how to post photos. The Packard is in Eastern Oregon. Perhaps some clue as to how to post photos? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Just check the FAQ's in this forum. I'd like to see this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 It might take me a few minutes but I will figure it out and post a couple of photos. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Photos have been added as attachments. Photos were taken last summer:July, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Now the ultimate question, how much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I want 7500. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sounds like a reasonable price, any rust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 There are a couple of places where the paint has bubbled and don't know for sure how bad it might be below the paint. And being honest, We've looked and looked at the driver's side and cannot determine if it had any work done on it. The bubble is again on the driver's side at the rear fin. Most of the parts I broke or knocked off are still inside. A couple of the packard letters are gone. I do not have a key and have never been inside the trunk, or if I did crawl in there is nothing of importance in it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Ron,Email me with your phone number. Let's talk turkey.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Edited December 15, 2011 by hausdok (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbuff2 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 That is one handsome automobile and it would be a sin to part it out ....I am a Buick nut,but this certainly has gotten my attention..... I just do not know the irst thing about Packards,or I would make a run on this. Good luck and someone is going to have one nice car.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Strange, my last post didn't appear, but no matter. Since Hausdok is showing interest, I'm going to pass to him. He's probably one of the most serious Packard Hawk enthusiasts in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hi,Well, there could be some issues. The title is the first. Can one be gotten? If a new title can't be gotten, depending on what state one is in, it's either doable or not. If it's not doable, it's essentially a parts car or a lawn ornament because you can't register it to drive it.The next is rust. I'm a P.H. owner. There will be a lot of rust there - believe me. I bought a "rust free" California Hawk. Once you start looking you find all sorts of stuff that the factory undercoating, which will be crystalized and hard as plastic, is hiding. Bubbling around a fin is a telltale. Neither the underside of the fin or the fender that the fin is screwed/leaded onto are primed or painted. No zinc chromate, nothing. The images below will show you what's under those fins.The good news is that because this car shares the body tub and chassis with the Studebaker Golden Hawk there are lots of sheetmetal repair parts available; so, if one knows how to disassemble, cut and weld, fabrication is held to a bare minimum. Also, there is a fellow in Ohio that can reproduce the leather interior exactly for roughly $5k. You still have to have your own upholsterer install it once it's been replicated but the fabricator's work is awsome.From the photos I can tell that it is a relatively nice car; nicer whole than some that recently came up on the net for sale. Whole and with a title it might be worth somewhere near that number; without a title and with the ready availability of Golden Hawk parts out there I don't see it as a parts car.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Strange, my last post didn't appear, but no matter. Since Hausdok is showing interest, I'm going to pass to him. He's probably one of the most serious Packard Hawk enthusiasts in the area.Serious? Addicted is probably what I'd describe it. Thanks, not sure I'm gonna do anything more than kick tires but it's worth a talk or two to see if it's doable.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Mike, I was apprehensive about the car since there's no title, which was what my post was asking about. I'm even more apprehensive about the PH and probably any other, after seeing those photos. I really don't know much about these cars other than that they shared a lot of parts with the Golden Hawk. I think this car needs to go to someone who could really serve this car justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm off to our desert home for a few days and will write more from there. The car is in Oregon, and I'm in AZ for a while. I really do not want to part it out. I'm certain I can get a title even if I have to haul it to Arizona. I think I can in Oregon because I have a bill of sale from the storage facility. I know in Arizona that I can because I've done it. So far as rust, it would not surprise me. I am also interested in leads to serious offers. I invested a lot because I knew it had to be rare and when a few years younger I aspired to restore it. Now I know how much work that involves, and my interest has changed to antique trailers. Does not mean a lot if really rusted beneath the paint, but it has been under cover since I've owned it. About 10 years. I'll read all these more closely when I get out to our desert location in a few hours. Thanks to all of you for comments and suggestions. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Yeah,It takes a commitment and a vision. Since May I've looked at about 20 of these that were for sale and only 5 are in running condition and won't cost thirty times what's paid for them just to get them in primer. If I could get Billy Gates to hand over five minutes of his income, I'd buy up every one of them on the planet and restore every one of 'em. Since that's not likely to happen, I've had to pass on a bunch of them while looking for good candidates for a full restore. Right now, I know where there are about a dozen for sale that are essentially parts cars, I know of three others that are half-done basket cases and four others that are running and drivable - only one of which is in show condition.Re. the basket cases. It seems like folks take the bodies off expecting to do a frame off but not expecting the degree of rust that they find. Then, when they get done cleaning and painting the chassis, restoring all of the chassis components and turn to the body, they realize that they're facing a whole lot of unanticipated cutting, replacement metal costs, fabrication of some parts and welding. Without the skills to do that themselves, they call around to find out what a few hundred hours of MIG or TIG welding will cost them and it hits them - the project is way too expensive. The cars then go up for sale.Last summer, I had my brother check out four of these back east. They all belonged to the same guy. We'd expected to find at least one that was sort of special. They weren't, all were in very poor condition sitting out in the weather in snow country and the guy hadn't done anything with them in years. He started, realized he was in over his head and gave up. Since then, he's held onto them and allowed them to sit there and rust. He wants to sell them whole and won't part them out; but the longer they sit there the worse they become and right now it's a toss up whether any of them could ever be restored without finding and replacing the entire body tub with one from an Arizona donor.I've loved these cars since I was seven. To me, they're worth the effort, but sometimes the Matterhorn is just too damned steep and the route too slippery and the smart climber has to pass. I'm willing to explore some possible routes to the top though.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Edited December 15, 2011 by hausdok (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Mike:Thanks for your comments. I do believe you are right about the cost and work involved. I'm good at what I do, but really don't have the talent and knowledge to put this back together. Once I dropped the tree across the fenders and my wife told me how stupid I was, it hit me that I just did not have what it takes to restore it. Thus I have not messed with it at all except keeping it under cover. I always dreamed of owning a Golden Hawk, and figured this was as close as I would come, plus I knew it had to be very rare. Actually, I've only seen photos of restored ones, never in person so to speak. I would love to see it restored rather than parted out that way I could say I really did make a good choice even if not done by me. For fun, we sit it out in front of our little antique shop in the small Oregon town and sit one of our antique trailers behind it-it got more attention than any advertising we could have done. I can ramble on forever. So you have seen some twenty or so of these. Is it true that there are less than 200 still surviving. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imotors Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Broadway Title Co.Getchya a title in a few weeks!Lost Car Titles, No Car Title at All?No excuse now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Mike: So you have seen some twenty or so of these. Is it true that there are less than 200 still surviving. RonHi Ron,It was good talking to you on the phone tonight. I'll see what I can do about taking a drive down there to check it out. As far as numbers go, I don't think anyone really knows. There was a guy named Mike Williams that used to have a site called PackardHawk.com and I'd heard that he'd maintained a registry and had over 180 P.H.'s listed. However, he kind of dropped off the scene and when I've asked around about the guy all I get is shoulder shrugs. Lets put it this way; in less than six months I've found more than twenty that based on condition probably weren't on any registry. In just the past two weeks, four more surfaced. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that folks who owned these took a lot of pride in them and hung onto them and that there might actually be a larger number than folks think out there under tarpaulins and in sheds somewhere.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Sorry, the old computer in the desert was down yesterday so no replies were made. I hope to get the ID numbers then I can work on the title information. I saw the line concerning obtaining a title and would like more information. Mike, I'll be working on the ID numbers. If there were 588 of these made, that means no more than 12 per state. Over 50 years my guess is that half of these disappeared. Meaning, there could have been no more than 12 per state. Over a 50 year period I could see half of those disappearing, leaving 6 per state. This means nothing of course. It would be nice to know how many survived, how many have been restored, and how many could be? One visitor in Oregon said he saw one in a Portland auto show. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 58packardwagon Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 An amazing number of these cars are still around....and in various conditions. Take your time and be very selective with your purchase. The buyer is still in the drivers seat on this model.On the flip side of the coin....the 58 Packard Station Wagons and two door hardtops. Seems are though on these two models, parts are easier to find than the car's themselves. Take care and good luck with your purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Sorry, the old computer in the desert was down yesterday so no replies were made. I hope to get the ID numbers then I can work on the title information. I saw the line concerning obtaining a title and would like more information. Mike, I'll be working on the ID numbers. If there were 588 of these made, that means no more than 12 per state. Over 50 years my guess is that half of these disappeared. Meaning, there could have been no more than 12 per state. Over a 50 year period I could see half of those disappearing, leaving 6 per state. This means nothing of course. It would be nice to know how many survived, how many have been restored, and how many could be? One visitor in Oregon said he saw one in a Portland auto show. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. RonHi Ron,I realize that the average number would be six but I don't think that S-P apportioned them out by state. I could be wrong, but my guess is that they made them when dealers ordered them; and, since dealers were leaving and/or refusing to order them, that's why production was halted.I know of six in my state, including my own. I know of at least six in one state in the midwest and another six or eight up in New York. They are out there. Unfortunately, since they seem to get parked and forgotten a lot, perhaps because their owners don't think they can get parts, they rust out a lot.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 An amazing number of these cars are still around....and in various conditions. Take your time and be very selective with your purchase. The buyer is still in the drivers seat on this model.On the flip side of the coin....the 58 Packard Station Wagons and two door hardtops. Seems are though on these two models, parts are easier to find than the car's themselves. Take care and good luck with your purchase.There was some discussion on the SDC forum about a month ago about some '58 Packards and one guy talked about how he'd passed on a '58 Packard wagon parked up in Ontario about a year ago. I think, but am not certain, that he said he was going to drive by the place where it was parked to see if it was still available. As you know, there were fewer of those made than the P.H., so if someone is interested in finding a Packard Wagon they should check out the SDC forum and do a search.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 This one was at the S.D.C. national meet in Springfield, MO. in late June when I snapped the photo.Pete Phillips1956 Golden HawkLeonard, Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hausdok Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Nice car, but that color? Ugh. They called it "Jewel Beige." It sure looks like Mary Kay pink to me.Mike O'HandleyKenmore, Washingtonhausdok@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rronharmon Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 As you have been informed, we seem to have some problems identifying the Packard as a Hawk; Thanks for the info on the frame ID, I will be able to check it out in the spring.For the record, I do have fenders for a '58 wagon! I have no idea of the rarity of other models. I'm looking forward to finding out the specifics concerning the car. Thanks. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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