Avanti Rescue

[SeventhSon]

No Avanti fun to report - I've been out in the field the past couple of days so I can't get to the storage unit at lunch time. Since the big Powerball lottery is in the news lately I must confess I fantasize about what I would do if I had the planets all line up and the stars shine down upon me and I got to stand there with the big faux check for $150 million. First thing I would do is go hunting for a 15 car garage - then I would call up Reliable auto haulers and send my old Avanti down to the Solanki brothers in Georgia. I would say, "Fix it up just like this one":

That Avanti is the beautiful work of art accomplished by Nimesh Solanki, with help from his brother Deepesh, I'm sure. What can I say, the guys know their stuff. Nimesh sold the Avanti in this video, mainly because it was such a show car that he feared driving it in public. Heck, I fear driving my Hyundai in public anymore, so I know what he means. Nothing like a texting twenty something running you into a tree while you're driving a jewel. When Nimesh had this beauty on eBay I sat here one Sunday night right before the auction closed crunching numbers in my head, "What if I got a ten year loan....? Hmmm..., you think my wife would leave me if I bought this...? I wonder if I can sleep in it....?"

Tomorrow I'll post a video of the latest Nimesh Avanti. I think it's as nice as the one he sold. Almost.

Edited August 9, 2013 by SeventhSon (see edit history)

[SeventhSon]

I said tomorrow, but I couldn't wait. So here it is:

Sweet Avanti - I love the Studebaker white rims!

[SeventhSon]

Well, I managed a quick trip to the storage unit today at lunch. I gotta get more time over there if I expect to make progress. And of course the humidity has returned, so I'm drenched after a few minutes. But, it's fun, even if the visits are short. I'm getting a hankering to put in for a day of leave and spend the whole day at the storage unit working on getting the paint off the beast. Today, after scraping a little more on the roof, I tried out removing the paint from the hood - hmmm, the hood paint is a bit tighter than the roof paint. It was difficult to get a toehold under the paint and get some of it off. But I made some progress anyway. A little.

I checked out some paint strippers online and at Home Depot since I haven't ordered the POR 15 stripper yet. But I wanted to see how a stripper would work in the meantime so I checked some out. Most of the Home Depot stuff says "not for fiberglass" - the only one I was tempted to try was Citrustrip. But I'm not sure about that, even. I don't want to mess anything up, so I left Home Depot empty handed. I think I'll just keep scraping away until the right stripper arrives - as a matter of fact, I think I'll go shopping right now for some.

[SeventhSon]

Well,I ordered the paint stripper - now I just have to wait for it to get here. Meantime, I stopped by Home Depot this afternoon to check out their selection of razor scrapers. I picked up a couple of more to add to my collection - I have my full contingent of scrapers now. I headed out to the storage unit late this afternoon to try them out. The long handle one is much better than the one I was using before - more leverage, I suppose. Scrape, scrape, scrape it went, until I ran out of time - if I could get a full day on the task I am sure I would be pleased with the progress. Ah well, my work schedule is filled up this week so it'll be a few days before I can get back to it, looks like.

Another thing I was looking at this evening was the emblem removal for the side "Supercharged" emblem and the front "Avanti" emblem. I haven't really gotten into the removal yet - just starting to figure it out so I can proceed when ready. Not sure about how to get behind the "Supercharged" emblem - I believe I remember reading on unimogjohn's Avanti Refresh blog that you need tiny hands to get those off. Leaves me out....

[unimogjohn]

Chris, boy you are making progress. Looks better already. Glad the scrapers are working for you.

To remove the supercharged emblem you have to take out the vent flappers. Then through the open vent you can feel you way to the single pal nut that holds it on. I used a small wrench to get the nut started and then was able to use my fingers to get it off. The emblems then just falls on the ground. I did put a towel on the ground to catch it if it does push out. It is harder to get on than off. Not much room to maneuver.

[SeventhSon]

Thanks for the info John. Hmmm, I guess I should have left the vent cover and kick pad off. Doh! I hate when that happens!

[SeventhSon]

Well, the rain kept me out of the field today, so I had a little visit to the storage shed at lunch. More of the same, scrape, scrape, scrape. I don't know who is having more fun, me or unimogjohn, who is wrestling with the rear springs on his Avanti. (Well, I do know who is having more fun, definitely John!) I remember a while back, Dave Tbow telling me that you can't get the rear springs off the Avanti, like they had installed them on the assembly line, then put the body on, thereby locking everything in place. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about at the time, but now I think I know. Hang in there John!

So, I scraped a little more paint today, looks like it's gonna be a long haul here folks. It's boring, I know, so if you want to come back in 6 months I'll probably be just about finished with the "Well, I scraped some more paint today" posts. I'm beginning to realize why they get 10 thousand dollars to paint one of these things....

Below, besides the freshly scraped paint, you can see a nice crack that I am going to have to repair. No, I didn't crack it - it came standard equipment from Texas.

[avantey]

Chris- Can I join the race? You may be done scraping before I get these %#@& brakes bled and a pedal I can live with! Bled another half quart tonite and now have a poor pedal when running, which is a huge improvement from no pedal on Saturday! Running it I also can tell I need to set up the carb when she is driveable- a little sputtering/break up when I let off the gas on a revving up and a little shaky on choke at start. I am sure the hi speed settings are OK but I will have to check them out

[SeventhSon]

Very odd that the brakes won't work properly with all that bleeding. Is your booster OK? Vacuum lines? Strange that the brake performance is poor when running, are you sure the vacuum lines are hooked up properly? How about the check valve on the booster - almost sounds like a vacuum problem. That could also be part of your rough running problem - what does your vacuum gauge show while idling? How about running full tilt? Oh, that's right - you might not want to go full tilt with no brakes!

Not much happening in my Avanti world today - a long day of work for me in the field. Whew! I'm not as young as I used to be!

I did see a package on the stoop when I arrived home tonight - my paint stripper! Now I just have to find the time to see how it works.

[ErnieR]

Chris- Can I join the race? You may be done scraping before I get these %#@& brakes bled and a pedal I can live with! Bled another half quart tonite and now have a poor pedal when running, which is a huge improvement from no pedal on Saturday! Running it I also can tell I need to set up the carb when she is driveable- a little sputtering/break up when I let off the gas on a revving up and a little shaky on choke at start. I am sure the hi speed settings are OK but I will have to check them out ;)

Are you absolutely sure the pushrod into the master is adjusted properly? If you have the original master then the measurement is in the shop manual but if you have converted to a dual you need to play around with the pushrod length.

Also, there should be checkballs under the bleeders on the calipers; are they in place and is the bleeder screw at the top of the caliper?

[SeventhSon]

Sunday evening, another week looms ahead. Not much to report on the Avanti, other than to say I did get to the storage unit this evening to take her out for a drive. I drove around a bit, then figured I should throw in a little fresh gas to keep the gas in the tank from getting stale. I stopped at my usual place and got 10 bucks worth. Then the old girl wouldn't start - I've heard a couple of other Avanti owners say they have trouble getting theirs to start when they've been running a while. I'm sort of used to it, really. It's happened a few times - I have learned to just sit for a spell, then crank her and she usually fires right up. Today, I pushed the old car back from the gas pumps and into a parking space. I waited five, then cranked it. Wasn't happening. I waited five more - then cranked again. This time I just rested my foot on the accelerator pedal, barely applying any pressure. She fired right up, and had a very smooth feel to the idle. Hmmm...maybe that's the trick - wait five, then barely give any gas when cranking. I'm sure I'll get to try it again.

I've been so busy at work that I haven't had time to work on the paint stripping. I was going to do it today but then I read the can of stripper. Pretty noxious stuff, according to the directions on the can. I guess it would have to be to pull the paint off of something! Well, I didn't have time to get into all the precautions and cleanup that was going to be necessary, so it'll have to wait.

Since unimogjohn has been having a thrilling time with his rear springs I decided to poke my head under the car and see how mine look. I knew that the spring bushings were toast (on this car, imagine!), so that was already on the docket. But today I stepped back from the car as I got ready to put it to bed. The rear end is a bit flat - doesn't seem to have that Avanti stance. I took a flashlight and peered under the rear of the car. No broken leafs, but the springs look right toasty, along with the pads, u-bolts, etc. So, a rear spring refresh goes on the list.

Let's see, paint job, hog troughs, rear springs, probably clutch and pressure plate too. Ah, looks like lots 'o fun in store for me and my wallet!

[SeventhSon]

Absolutely no Avanti fun this week. Work, grinding work - I spent 12 hours at the hospital job on Wednesday, putting stakes in the ground. Sounds easier than it was. I got home and ate something, laid on the couch and turned this way and that to alleviate the cramps in my old muscles. Have you ever been too tired to sleep? Well, I knew that was coming, so I took one of those combination pain/sleep pills (Advil PM). Ahhh, blessed rest, until I had to get up and head out again and do it again. Enough about me.

I called a fellow (who shall remain anonymous) the other day and innocently asked him about Avanti paint jobs. I figured if I didn't have time to paint the car myself, then maybe I could pay someone to paint it. Mr. Anonymous gave me the name of someone who could paint the car.

"Is he reasonable?", I asked.

"More so than this other fellow I told you about - the one I can't recall his name."

"Okay then."

Today, I finally got around to calling Mr. Anonymous. I told him what I had, inquired as to what something like that would run.

"Well, ballpark, and this is rough because I haven't seen the car, but ballpark could run anywhere from 12, to 18 to 24."

"You're talking thousands, aren't you?"

"Oh yes."

"Ah, you're doing show car quality - concours type stuff."

"Well, yes, it'll look nice."

It had better.

So much for reasonable - I'll keep my old Avanti on the schedule and pray for some free time to work on it myself.

[ErnieR]

Don't rule out a MAACO. I think I mentioned them in a previous post. My son had a minor accident that damaged the header panel and hood on a Dodge Magnum. He replaced the parts himself and presented to a local MAACO. They did a great job of blending and did it for $1,000 less than a place he used to work for.

The crack in your fender doesn't look like a difficult repair and the rest of the car looks good. If you do a bease/clear paint job you can save some money by doing the final buffing yourself. I was told that it's better to do that after the paint has been on for a few months anyway.

Take it from me if you do any driving there will be nicks and it's a lot easier to take that first blemish on a $2500 paint job than a $12,000 one. Besides, The car can be repainted any number of times. I enjoyed driving my car a lot more than showing it. Sitting out in the sun for hours gets old quickly, at least it did for me. Besides, most hobbyist cars are not done to the concours level. There are hundreds more #3's out there than 1's and 2's.

The great thing about the Avanti is that you won't ever see a bad rust repair come bubbling through. So many people paid big money for body and paint on their metal cars only to see that concours paint job be ruined by recurring rust.

Get some color on it, drive the daylights out of it and have fun.

[unimogjohn]

Chris, I was quoted $2400 without any bodywork by MAACO. Ended up going with Sterling Hot Rod at $7,000 for the paint job, and $3500 in glass/repair work. Oh, and MAACO does have a warranty, I think two years. My paint job has been on a year now and no problems. Still looks great. It is all in what you want and your wallet can bare. It is a balance. I think that Greg spent about $10,000 on his two Avanti paint jobs by a custom painter, but that also was him doing all the repair work. You should go and talk to the MAACO folks and take a look at the cars they are doing. Their estimate is free. I went to the shop in Winchester.

[John Byrd]

Hey Chris, I have been painting off and on since '72, finally opened a body shop in '85, learned quickly that the public and gov't problems were not worth it, and after 2 1/2 years of that, reverted to and kept on at the hobby'est level. I did everything from insurance jobs to custom candy apple jobs on vans, bikes, cars, and trucks. OK, this establishes my credentials, and the reason I wanted to do that is that I also used MAACO two times on my own vehicles that I just didn't have time to get to. They were great, fair priced, and like John says, had a warranty. This was while we lived in Nashville, Tn., and I know there are major differences in shops, but I'm with him, give them a chance to bid and ask for some previous jobs to look at ( or look at what they are working on when you're there ). I am going to check with them here when I'm ready to paint the Anglia as I now live on a real "tight" subdivision. Preparation is key to a good job, so you can do a LOT to lessen the cost and be sure the surface is as you want it before you take it in. John B

[SeventhSon]

Thanks Ernie, John and John! I really appreciate the info and encouragement. I get frustrated when I can't get by the storage unit and make progress, but I just have to be patient and take it step by step. It'll get done eventually. I think that MAACO will be the way to go, as I am not looking for show car quality - just something presentable. Interesting thing - when I was searching for a storage unit to put my Avanti I researched all the nearby storage places and one of the reasons I picked the one I picked is because the local MAACO outlet was less than a mile away. So, I rented the storage unit and a couple of months later I took a ride by the MAACO shop to check out what they could do. CLOSED. Yep, they closed that MAACO. But they have others - just further away.

I will keep moving forward as I get time, then I'll take it to MAACO and see what they say. I can strip the paint and remove the bumpers and chrome, etc. to get it ready.

[unimogjohn]

Chris, remove everything. Only takes a couple of days. Then I will bring up the trailer and we will haul her down to the paint shop. John

[SeventhSon]

Thanks John! I'll make that my next tasks on the old car. This week I will get by the local MAACO shop and talk to them - maybe even make an appointment to drop her off. Then I'll start pulling the chrome off of her - I'm excited! I'll post on here what is happening.

Today was daily driver fun. Last night when I got in my car to leave work I turned the key and heard click, click, click. It wasn't too much of a surprise, since every time I started it in the past week I could tell it wasn't cranking with as much "verve" as usual. I've had the car 3 weeks past 3 years - how do they design stuff to give up the ghost right after the warranty expires? I headed out late today to get a battery at Advance Auto, then hoped to run by the storage unit for a cruise in the Avanti. Well, Advance took some old oil I had and even tested the battery (yep, it was bad), but then they couldn't get past the goal line. Things stalled and I decided to head over to the storage unit and see if this extra battery I have there would fit. Nope, terminals are in the reverse positions. Went by Napa. Closed. So, I did what I should have done in the first place. Went to Sears, got the right battery (thanks to the guy working there), brought it home, installed it and took the old battery back to Sears. Job done, but no Avanti driving. Ah well, gotta set priorities sometimes.

[avantey]

Hey Chris! I DID get to drive my Avanti yesterday instead of just reading about your rides!! Got up early and went for a haircut, it was such a nice morning I got the old girl out and took it down the road for a run. It is seven miles each way plus a few other stops and I figure she got about a 20 mile workout, most in years. She is not running right, I need to set up the carb but this run helped clarify the problems. Hesitant when starting to move, breaking up in the mid range or lower speeds. Then clears out and wants to go at about 60 but even then breaking up when you stomp on it from there. She would never do the advertised 149 right now!! Of course all that testing was in order and purely diagnostic- I also got the name of a guy who is supposed to be very good at these older 4 bbls so I may talk to him yet too.

Today I also got the Model A prepped for tour- we are doing the Glidden in two weeks in Chattanooga. Test drove her to be sure the rebuild of the distributor did the trick (it did) and then spent time cleaning and servicing her. Wash, wax, whitewalls, change the oil, clean up the undercarriage some, adjust the brakes and she is almost road ready. After I quit I realized I need to check the tranny level too and I had the floorboards all open until today. Now they are all sealed up and the carpet is back down- arghh! I also fixed the squeaky brakes on the daily driver VW and cleaned it up. We are heading to Maine on Friday to see my uncle for the weekend, get home Monday, work four days and off to TN on Sat the 7th. From there we are heading to central FL to see my mother for a week.

My big mystery is whether to drag the trailer and A to FL or store it in Chattanooga and just run the truck 600 miles to Florida. If we go home via the usual route it is 200+ miles shorter than going back to TN for the trailer. But the math says it cheaper on diesel to go that route than drag the trailer all the way. However I know I can get home in two days on the I95 to I77 to I81 route. Back to Chattanooga is 600 or about one full day and I do not think I can make it home the next at 900+ miles. I guess I will take the trailer to FL as I need to get back to work on Monday, Sept 23. All in all the road warrior in me is about to take over!! No real Avanti time for a while as Hershey is two weeks after we get back and then the car season pretty much ends here in upstate NY. Bummer!!

Here are pictures of the Model A after today's work and the 1913 Stude,

[ErnieR]

I would double check all your ignition components before tearing into the carb. Do you still have a point and condensor distributor? If what you sre experiencing is truly breaking up and sputtering I would go right to the points and condensor and work from there to the plugs.

I'm pretty good with carbs. I built a hybrid Edelbrock Bottom and AFB top for my R2. The car ran like it was fuel injected. Off throtle hesitation could be an accel pump issue. Easy to diagnose. Look into the carb with the engine off and move the throttle ever so slightly. You should see a dribble the instant you move the linkage. Next would be a quick opening of the throttle at least halfway. You should see a strong spurt from the discharge nozzles. Tell me what you find and I'll suggest what to do. If it's shooting a nice strong stream and reacting instantly the carb isn't your off throttle hesitation.

The carb pictured is an Edelbrock with an AFB top

Carb issues are USUALLY flat spots, surging, dying out slowly on acceleration or up steep grades at steady throttle. The main thing is, though, the symptoms occur smoothly not typically an on off type feeling or sputtering and popping. Reason being whatever is happening is the result of too much or too little fuel. Sputtering, popping etc. is more ignition related because you are either sending erratic spark, poorly timed spark or no spark at all but for the brief moment that spark and fuel are in concert it runs OK for a moment.

Spark plugs that were new 3 years ago but have been sitting aren't really new anymore. At the risk o f starting a brand war my experience with Champions has been that once they fouled they were garbage. Even new ones that were exposed to raw fuel would not start the car. I switched to AC's and all those issues disappeared, IMHO.

If you still have your wires inside the shielding they can be arcing inside there. As cool as it looks I never put it on. Original Stude distributors are notorious for either frozen or worn out pins for the centrifugal advance weights. Points wear out quickly and the condensor can cause all kinds of sputtering. A little oil underneath the condensor could actually cause a miss or hard starting in the morning.

I won't say you can't possibly have carb issues and I changed mine out because it ran way to rich at idle. Becasue of underhood heat issues, especially in R2's. there's an air bleed valve meant to open as things get hot enough to boil fuel. My guess it was a stop gap/compromise and once things got warm the car would run so rich that the person behind me gat a facefull of black smoke as I pulled away from a light.

Put some AC R44S plugs in there, check the wires for signs of arcing, white powdery or actual charred spots, if you have pionts and condensor change them. Check to see that you have centrifugal advance and working vacuum advance with your timing light. Advance the timing 2 degrees over recommended setting try it, if you don't get a ping or a hard start try 2 more. Make sure you readjust idle after each timing change. I'm willing to bet that most of your carb problems will go away.

[unimogjohn]

Bill, Ernie is right. It does not sound carb related, but distributor. I had Dave Tbow do my carb and it came back perfect out of the box. But it still ran like crap. Then sent him my distributor for a rebuild. It also came back perfect. That fixed my running issues. it really sounds like you have distributor issues.

[avantey]

Thank you both for the input. I assumed it is minor adjustments to the rebuilt carb but you have me looking elswhere again. I can turn wrenchs OK but still weak at diagnostics. I do know my father got very frusttrated early on with the original dual point distributor and swapped it out for what I think he said was one out of a 1957 Stude, (probably a 259?) which is a single point distributor.

It has been very reliable and consistent for all these years but always hard to start. I figured that is a fuel issue too as I crank and pump the pedal for a good 30 sec, stop and turn it over it then fires right up. I know my car was the first with the ballast resistor on the dist per AOA records and it is still in line but other than that I do not know much about this distributor or ever had to work on it. When I had the engine out a couple of years ago I put in all new plugs and wires and they have Saturday's 20 miles on them other than some idle time. I will check the points, look for oil etc as you have suggested.

I also may have used the wrong words to describe the symptoms. It is not popping and breaking up like ignition issues I am familiar with from the Model A or other cars. It is just hesitant like it has to clear its throat, then it runs, then garbles up again. It does this and suddenly smooths out about sixty. The hesitation was at about sixty on a gradual uphill where she seemed to gasp for fuel like the accelerator pump was not responding on time, very slight hesitation but it was there twice on that uphill like it was struggling to maintain speed. Unfortunately the tach is sticky and inaccurate so I cannot see if it happens at a consistent rpm rather than speed. It really feels like too much fuel and poor processing of it in the mid range.

BUT I will keep looking and check the things you suggest! I learn every time I ask and I appreciate the help!

Thanks,

[ErnieR]

Heading into work now but tonight ill give you some easy things to check

[ErnieR]

Check the accel pump like I mentioned in the previous post. I would bend that "S" piece so that pump action was instantaneous with pedal action. The initial spurt should be strong no matter how far you open the throttle.

If you haven't done it already change the fuel filter and maybe buy a second one to have around. A car that hasn't been driven for a couple of years can generate some fine particles in the tank and the lines. When I first got my 88 I had to change the fuel filter at almost every fill up. Took about 3 tanks and 4 filters before it cleared out. That car had been sitting for a few years only being moved a few feet at a time over the duration. It would fade out at higher speeds and up hills. Simply a matter of fuel supply not keeping up with demand.

Another easy thing to check and that could cause the symptoms you've described would be sticking rods. Looking at the top of the AFB there are two little kidney shaped covers with two small screws. Loosen the screws only enough to move the covers you don't want to swallow one of those screws. The enrichment rods and pistons are under the flaps. They should be trying to pop out pushing up on the covers as you are loosening the screws . If they are not get them out and clean them up. If you can't get them shiny with a little carb cleaner use a Scotch Brite pad or something similar and clean them up. While they are out you can spray some carb cleaner directly into the primary jets by sticking the nozzle down the hole the rod slips into. BTW, look at the springs and see if they are the same height. Won't hurt to check the rods, clean them up and make sure they are straight.

In case you aren't familiar with the rod's function...at high vacuum, like cruise conditions i.e. light steady throttle, they are pulled into the primary jets operating against the spring ( no rods on secondaries ) limiting the amount of fuel. The instant the throttle is moved vacuum changes and the springs push the rod up. At full throttle which is closed to or at zero vacuum they are all the way up and the thinest part of the rod is in the jet allowing the most amount of fuel to flow.

While you have the carb cleaner in hand spray into all the little air bleeds. Holes and tubes about the diameter of a paper clip. Not the big nozzoles with the diagonal cuts. That just dumps carb cleaner into the bowls and you might get a hard start. Wouldn't hurt to use a paper clip in those bleeds. You cant hurt anything.

So, it's possible that a sticking rod is not moving freely enough to provide enrichment as you give the car more pedal to maintain cruising speed up grades.

Another easy thing to check is choke operation. Before you try starting the car take off the air cleaner and oprn the throttle. Choke should snap closed. If you open the throttle all the way it should open 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. Start the car and let it warm up completely watching the action of the choke. It should end up fully opened and not try to close when you blip the throttle.

BTW, if your car sits for a couple of days try starting it like this...don't hit the gas just crank it for a few seconds. I like to spin them until the oil pressure gage is reading pressure or if the light goes out it protects the engine from a dry start a d fills the carb bowls with fuel. Now, after cranking, give one or two pumps on the pedal, at the most, to set the choke and spray some fuel (assuming the accel pump has past previous tests ) then crank with foot off the pedal. If you have the fast idle adjusted correctly it should start and idle around 1500 rpm.

Take the fuel line out and remove the fitting in the carb top and look in. I've seen hose particles in there, or sometimes there's a little screen filter. That filter is mostly on Edelbrocks but since most of the parts are interchangeable it doesn't hurt to check it might have been in a rebuild kit installed in the past.

BTW, the ballast resistor is not an issue. They either work or don't. If it wasn't working your car would start and then immediately shut off when you released the key to the run position. The resistor reduces voltage to the points when the car is running to prolong their life.

Are you lucky enough to have a Delco "window" style distributor? No matter what you do have if there's a Pertronix kit available convert as soon as you can. I swapped out my Prestolite for a Delco Window and then put a Pertronix in that and starts were much quicker AND the idle smoothed. I had a little Mercury Metor a few years ago and it needed to be tuned. I didn't even bother with buying points and condensor I just converted it. Great product. Had it in my Avanti for at least 6 years and then I put in a Mallory. I should have saved the money. Car ran no better with the Mallory than it did with the Delco/Pertronix and you can't get parts just anywhere if you need them for the Mallory.

ErnieR

Edited August 27, 2013 by ErnieR
fat fingers (see edit history)

[SeventhSon]

Hey Bill - you have some nice cars! My first thought was ignition problems when you were talking about how the Avanti was running. I don't think you can go wrong by following Ernie's advice and John's too. Maybe you should put a dual point distributor back in it - Dave Tbow probably has one or two laying around. When I was changing all the plugs, wires, dist. cap on my Avanti I had a look at the points and they looked good so I left them alone. When they worked on it at Alan Himes' shop they actually pulled the distributor and rebuilt it - they said it had the problems that Ernie mentioned in his posts. They also said that although the points were good, the pivot point was frozen and the little nub that engages with the cam on the dist. shaft was flexing at each high spot on the shaft. Wouldn't have lasted long like that. I'm glad they took care of that - it paid to have their experience working on the car.

I don't get to fool around with my Avanti during the day anymore, as I have my hands full trying to keep up with the office and field work. Today, on the way back to the office after another fun day in the field, I happened to notice a road sign as I passed through an intersection. Oh, I thought, MAACO is right up that road, so I did a u-turn and checked it out. I think I'll check out another one. This MAACO is all congested - no parking, cars all parked haphazardly, people juggling cars around. I did see what appeared to be a small 2 seater Ferrari that they were moving around. I'm not sure if it was even a Ferrari - it had the Ferrari taillights, but the car was tiny, like a TR7 or something. But man, it sounded right! Wicked, like a Ferrari would sound.

[avantey]

I took the Avanti out again tonite to get oil for a change on my daily VW diesel. Running to Maine and back this weekend so I thought fresh oil would be good for the roadwork. The Avanti runs and idles very smoothly from an ignition point but as I said it has been a long time since it got any attention. I will dig into it as Ernie and John have suggested. When I pulled the engine three years ago it was running very fine, it was pulled because it was leaking every bodily fluid it had and I was tired of it marking it's territory at every stop light. All that considered we never took the distributor out of the block during that time. It was masked off for paint/detailing and just hooked back up when the engine went back in. Never occured to me that the distrib may be the culprit with how it was running pre-engine removal and the carb is a fresh rebuild.

I am also going to do some (all) of the diagnostic carb tests Ernie wrote up, thanks Ernie. I popped the hood when I got home but it is very warm and humid here tonite so the garage heated up too much too fast to stay and play. I came in and had ice cream instead...... just have to pick your spots you know . Tomorrow nite I have to do the oil change and I bet Momma will want me to start packing so I will see how far I get on the Avanti. Next week is 4 nites to prep and pack for the TN Glidden so I may not learn much on the old girl before later September when we get back from FL.

[jfreakofkorn]

just read thru it and you have been doing an amazing progress of the car

i ll be continuing to following this and keep up the good work ...

[SeventhSon]

Welcome, and thanks for checking it out! Hopefully, folks won't give up on me during this rough patch where can't get to work on the car. But I have plans for the coming weeks and months. Saturday I plan on taking the old girl to MAACO to see if they can put some color on it. If we can get set on a price and time frame I will start pulling the chrome off in preparation for the body work. After the paint job and all the chrome goes back on I will look into replacing the rear springs. Other fun on tap: hog troughs, paint the wheels, maybe clutch assembly, etc, etc. Woohoo!

[avantey]

Ernie- I did get into the Avanti just now and did a lot of the tests you suggested. I would rather not hijack Chris's thread so heavily with our continuing conversation. I feel a new thread under technical or here is appropo but I do not know how to get a couple of your answers to another thread. Any ideas?

Chris- do you have any color chips from Stude? I have a salesman's book that has all of them plus a lot more selling features. It has a gold, padded and vinyl covered cover and is a nice thing to keep for reference.

[SeventhSon]

Hey Bill - I did purchase a paint chip card a while back but it was basically a copy of an original, so the colors weren't too rich. I saw a BMW Z4 the other day with a nice color on it - I am going to ask about that when I take it to the paint shop.

Feel free to discuss Avantis all day long on my thread, but if you want to start your own thread you can copy and paste any of the conversations you want to comment on to your new thread. At least I think you can do that. In either case, I look forward to reading all the tips and tricks about Avantis that are out there.

[avantey]

Thanks for the permission Chris, I will try it here but please tell me if I take too much press from your project! OK, so here goes- I did spend time on the Avanti last night, carb and distributor. These are my observations and/or test results fom Ernie's tests:

1. Look into the carb with the engine off and move the throttle ever so slightly. You should see a dribble the instant you move the linkage. Next would be a quick opening of the throttle at least halfway. You should see a strong spurt from the discharge nozzles.

When I crack the throttle I did not see the instant dribble but I did get the strong spurt, equal from both nozzles. I also saw fuel laying in the "cup area" right above the nozzles. This is the depressed area on top of the tower the nozzles protrude from.

2. Loosen the screws only enough to move the covers you don't want to swallow one of those screws. The enrichment rods and pistons are under the flaps. They should be trying to pop out pushing up on the covers as you are loosening the screws

Very definitely pushing up on the plates with screws barely loosened, 1/2-1 turns.

3. take off the air cleaner and oprn the throttle. Choke should snap closed. If you open the throttle all the way it should open 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch.

Does this on both actions.

4. Start the car and let it warm up completely watching the action of the choke. It should end up fully opened and not try to close when you blip the throttle.

I did not warm it up completely since I wanted to keep checking things, will do this later

5. if your car sits for a couple of days try starting it like this...don't hit the gas just crank it for a few seconds. I like to spin them until the oil pressure gage is reading pressure or if the light goes out it protects the engine from a dry start a d fills the carb bowls with fuel. Now, after cranking, give one or two pumps on the pedal, at the most, to set the choke and spray some fuel (assuming the accel pump has past previous tests ) then crank with foot off the pedal. If you have the fast idle adjusted correctly it should start and idle around 1500 rpm.

This worked on a cold start ok, not much better than my method with pumping but it worked. Or it may have been all the fuel pumped in with the spurt testing. With the tach out to lunch I could not tell the idle RPM but it was not real high compared to warm idle.

6. Take the fuel line out and remove the fitting in the carb top and look in. I've seen hose particles in there, or sometimes there's a little screen filter.

Did not do this but the fuel pump, hose, clear filter and carb are all new or rebuilt. Fuel in the filter is full, clear and moves well with no sediment in filter bottom.

Other carb observation:

When running I would rev the engine up, down and back up fairly quickly- this caused the carb to load up upon the reacceleration. It would stumble and two out four times it 'popped' gas back out of the carb, like a backfire without the flame. Just compression pushing the fuel out so I have a timing issue of some sort I think.

On to the distributor:

There was a film of oil all over the inside of the distributor- on the plate, the cam and the rotor shaft above it. Wiped it all down with paper towels/Qtips and brake cleaner. The wire from the little insulated block to the points had frayed loam insulation but good plastic cover under it. The wire opposite the points that screwed into the plate had a bare spot where I think it wore on the cam lobes so I taped that and dressed it to stay out of the way.

The points looked good- flat faces, gray with a little white in center, no pits, gapped correctly at .014 per the manual, good spring force. I cleaned the rotor and checked the cap, looked OK on the inside.

As stated before all plugs, and wires are new, shielding is in place.

1. A little oil underneath the condensor could actually cause a miss or hard starting in the morning

There was oil pooled here, cleaned it up and put condenser back in place.

Going forward I have to get out the timing light and check the timing but I am concerned about the fuel 'backfire' thru the carb. Is this a valve train issue since it is intermittent or what? I am not sure engine timing would fix this?

What else should I look for/at? NO time left this week, we leave in the early AM but maybe some time next week if packing for the tour goes well.

Thank you for all the help here!

[ErnieR]

You really shouldn't see any fuel laying on top of the carb. There should be three screws holding the nozzles in and underneath the nozzles a needle, as in needle and seat, or a check ball and rod. If the nozzles aren't snugged down or the gasket is bad fuel will spray out the nozzles and anywhere else it can escape.

My starting method is cold start after a few days sitting. Usually enough time for some fuel to evaporate low enough to not fill the accel pump chamber.

The fast idle is easy just move the throttle linkage at the carb and close the choke manually with the car off. Let go of the throttle and make sure the fast idle cam is at the highest spot and resting on the fast idle screw on the base of the carb. Start the car without touching the pedal and adjust by ear if your tach isn't working. Should be pretty high but not screaming. You may have to play with it a little.

I wouldn't worry too much about your popping. Reving the car at a standstill repeatedly especially if the car is not FULLY warmed ( read HOT ) will leave unburned fuel laying in the manifold and you will get some odd occurences. Also, the choke and the secondaries are connected. The AFB has mechanical secondaries but they are not activated directly with any linkage connection to the primaries. What actually opens them is a spring, visible at the base on the passenger side. They stay locked if the choke is even slightly closed ( depends on the linkage adjustment itself but that's the way they are supposed to work ) they open when you put your foot down and the choke lock offers no resistance to spring pressure.

So if you did a couple of full throttle openings and the choke wasn't opened all the way yet there can be a little fuel collecting on top of the secondary throttle blades. Then when they do open you are way too rich.

My car would get hot enough to boil fuel and have it dribble out of the venturis. I removed the heater control valve and blocked the exhaust crossovers and remedied the problem Best thing I ever did for warm weather driveability with no sacrifice in cold weather performance. Your cold weather driving could be a little different if you did that requiring a longer warm up time but with the R2 it isn't a problem because the supercharger preheats the air and does what the heat riser would normally do.

Next time you dig into it with the timing light make sure you have advance as the rpm's rise and check your vacuum advance.

Chris...if you run into a hot restart problem again try holding your foot to the floor and cranking. The flap on top of the carb hat is there so fumes can escape when the car is off to prevent flooding or an overly rich restart condition. I don't think it worked particularly well.

ErnieR

[avantey]

Thanks Ernie!- I just read your reply as I wait for the wife to get ready to leave for Maine. Now we go do 500 miles and get lobster!! I will continue on the Avanti when we return but I am feeling better that nothing I saw alarmed you.

Thanks again,

[SeventhSon]

Thanks Ernie - I did try that, but it didn't help. The only thing that seems to help is letting it sit for 5 minutes, then it will usually fire right up. Except last time I took it out. We'll see how she does tomorrow.

[ErnieR]

Does it crank any slower? Mine did that when I first got it and I tore into the starter and found one brush stuck and barely touching the armature and oil had gummed things up.

I will say that even my El Camino wouldn't always start right up when it was hot. Sometimes no pedal worked other times pedal to the floor. And this is with HEI ignition and high torque starter. Might have something to do with the ethanol. The world isn't paying attention to carbureted vehicle anymore.

[SeventhSon]

When I first start cranking the engine after a prolonged period of several days it'll start cranking slow, then speed up until it starts. Today, I headed over to the storage unit to take the car out to the paint shop for a quote. She started pretty well - only cranked about ten seconds and she roared to life. I headed over to the gas station and put in some premium with half a can of SeaFoam. It didn't take me long to get to the MAACO shop that I had chosen and before long the guy was typing away on the computer. He had given me the standard paint book and I focused on the "silver" zone, then I asked for the BMW paints. I found the one I picked last week (Orion Silver Metallic) and that's the one that went on the quote. I asked when they could start on it and he said Tuesday. Well, I better start pulling the chrome off this baby then! Now I have to worry if I'm doing the right thing, if he'll do right by me, if, if, if. I guess I worry too much - just take it as it comes.

When I went to leave the shop I cranked the engine, didn't touch the gas pedal, then put it to the floor. Neither way helped. So I sat for 5 minutes and cranked it with my foot just resting against the pedal. Just like the other times she fired right up. I took her out for a cruise, logging about 50 miles total for the day. She runs nice, she should look nice, too, I believe. So tomorrow I am going to fetch her and bring her home so I can pull the various chrome off. I believe unimogjohn will be getting his trailer ready to lend to Greg, so I may just remove most of the chrome, then drive it to the paint shop and remove the bumpers and tail lights, license plate holder etc. Gonna be busy the next couple of days.

[ErnieR]

I drove my car for a couple of months without bumpers. The only thing you need to leave on are the stop lights. Put the front plate in the window and run some cord through the holes where the license plate bracket was.

Regarding doing the right thing. You will love driving the car with some color on it. Let the manager of the maaco know of any concerns I'm sure you're not his first. Tell him if the job comes out real nice that you will do some p r work for him at car shows and ask for flyers or cards.

You are going to be glad you made the move

[SeventhSon]

Ernie, your advice is excellent, as usual, and I'll heed it. Many thanks!

[ErnieR]

I just had a little laugh to myself. Most of the world wouldn't know whether the car should have bumpers or not. In NJ a front plate is required but as long as I drove it up there no one ever bothered me. It seems that most cops know that mature gentlemen driving cars that they obviously have a lot invested in are not people to waste their time on trivial pull overs.

[SeventhSon]

Well, things seem to be falling into place hopefully. I had hoped to try to paint the old beast myself but since I am pulling double duty at work it looks like I won't have the time to make any real progress. So, the next best thing is having a pro work on it - I've taken the advice of a few folks on this thread and checked out MAACO. It won't be a perfect job, but I am not looking for perfect. Maybe a nice 10 (20?) footer will do - just something that is all one color and presentable. The old car runs really nice and it would be a pleasure if she looked as good as she runs.

So, to that end, I headed over to the storage unit and brought her home to prep her for the paint shop. I started pulling various pieces off, like the light covers, headlights, turn signal lenses, grille, mirror. I started on the front bumper - I am hoping to pull it off the bracket rather than unbolting the bracket from the frame. I hope I'm not going down a blind alley, but it looks like the bumper will come off that way. I already got 2 of the nuts off and will begin tomorrow morning by working on the rest of the bolts and nuts. As for the rear bumper, I have no idea how to remove that - I'll just have to get in there and see what things look like.

I made good progress tonight - I'll hit it again tomorrow morning so I can hopefully have it ready to go on Tuesday morning. John Feser (unimogjohn) has graciously offered to haul the old girl to the paint shop - that's a huge help to me and I am very grateful. Thank you John and Alice!!