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Avanti Rescue


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Well, I bit the bullet and removed the oil pan. In the process I found that the starter wire sheathing was brittle and cracked (surprise!), exposing the copper wire. Another thing to fix.

On the bright side, the oil pan was pretty clean for a 49 year old car. I just found a coating of sludge maybe an eighth of an inch thick in the very bottom of the pan. On a more ominous note I was unpleasantly surprised to feel several chunks of what I thought was metal as I was wiping the sludge out of the pan. I collected several pieces on a paper towel, along with some sort of blowfly or insect (how did he get in there?) to examine later. I tried to pick some of the pieces up with a magnet but it didn't pick them up. Not metal, but what? I'll have a closer look tomorrow when I have more light and a magnifying glass.

Tomorrow I'll paint the outside of the pan, first I'll hit the rusty areas with Rust Reformer, then I'll paint it with orange paint. I want to get the pan back on pretty quickly and move on to something else. What that something else is depends on when the parts I have out for rebuild come back.

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Engine is very clean! Are you going to check a bearing or two?

Ben

I would do it too...

Regarding the pieces you found: it that plastic or aluminum? are the pistons OK? GM had plastic coated cam sprocket; with time the plastic get brittle and pieces are goind into the oil pan. However, I doubt that Studebaker did that as early as 1963.

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Hi Ben

I just hope that you don"t think it all a waste of time. I would be investigating those bits of Plastic? Aluminium? Brass? Lots of non-magnetic bits can still do damage. Maybe they are nothing but they must have come from somewhere. How about if that beetle had found its way into an oil gallery? I know it is a nearly new engine by my standards but it is always better to be sure than sorry.

Bernie J

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I don't think I'll start pulling bearing caps at this point. The engine sounded nice when I took delivery of the car, no ticking or knocking, no screeching either. I'm going to take a closer look at those pieces I found - maybe they're part of the supercharger impeller that had deteriorated and were blown in through the breather tube. I hope that's all they are...

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Well, the the debris in the first picture is definitely plastic or Bakelite, and as you can clearly see it is some sort of seal or bushing(?). The debris in the second picture is more like coal, possibly a carbon build-up that ended up in the oil pan. It's the first picture's contents that concerns me. Where, oh where did that come from?

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Guest Backyardmechanic
Just a guess, but it looks like the remnants of an "O" ring that got hard. I say that because it looks similar to the O rings that I replaced in the Corvair push rod tubes when they got overheated.

This could be the valve seals that fit on the valve stems>. Best is to remove the valve cover pans for a look see.

Vern

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Chris, I would explore around the oil pump area. I think that the holes moving oil from the valve area are too small to pass those large pieces unless they got beat up by the springs. Also they could be part of the oil bottle keeper that holds on the cap. If they did not remove it, it could have dropped into the valves when they tipped the bottle over into the valve cover. Been there, done that.

And glad you cleaned out the pan, now your oil will be clean at your first fill. And a lot less worry.

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Chris,

Just curious, why have you chosen orange for the oil pan color?

The small pieces that you got out of the oil pan are interesting, but it's hard for me to get a feel for the size. Could be a part of one of the original 'umbrella' valve seals, like several others mentioned. I've found those almost as hard as bakelite before!

When you put the oil pan back on, the front and rear cork seals that go into the curved sections of the oil pan will be a bear to position correctly, and get the pan up at the same time. It's hard enough doing it with the engine upside down on a stand, much less on your back under the car. Take four loooong bolts the same size as the pan bolts, cut the heads off and cut slots in the end, and put them at the four corners of the block -- these will help you position the pan correctly while you start some of the pan bolts. And....whatever you do.....don't shorten those front and rear pan cork sections; they may seem like they are too long, but they will fit eventually. Shortening them is a sure way to end up with oil leaks.

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John, I'm hoping that the pieces came from the topside, that way it may be easier to correct. I can't think of where else in the bottom end they could have come from, definitely an automotive seal of some type.

Paul, great advice - I'm going to use it, too! The oil pan is currently orange (mixed with spots of rust), I'll post a few pictures of it in a while. I'm thinking the pieces may be valve seal related too - I'll have a look at the topside of the engine to see. And I really appreciate the advice on getting the pan seals on correctly. When I got the car there were several new gasket sets laying on the back seat, one of which was the oil pan gaskets. I looked at the cork seals and thought, "Jeez, where do these go?" So, now I know, and I now know not to cut them to fit. A big help. I was going to use that set but decided to get a new set from SI because that old set has sat in that car in the searing Texas heat for over 20 years. Best to have some fresher gaskets. Thanks for the advice, everyone.

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Chris, I believe the engine is suppose to be painted red. Orange for the supercharger and the fan. I think there is a paint color id for everything in Bob Johnstone's tech pages. I will see if I can find it.

Found the link to the colors. Here is the link. http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/text2009/detailpaint.html

And I also asked Greg. Here is what he said. "Studebaker R 1 and R2 engines were all black. block, heads, water manifolding, pan, everything including the fuel pump. Earlier ones had chrome valley covers and later ones black. All had chrome valve covers.

Superchargers themselves a matter of controversy. Dick Bennett claims all were black from the factory and orange were replacements. None of my cars and most of the originals I've seen were Chevy orange. Since you can argue both ways, both colors must have made their way out of the plant."

Edited by unimogjohn
added color link and Greg's comments (see edit history)
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I agree that debris is probably a valve guide seal - be sure to check the oil pump pickup and be sure there are no pieces inside or openings in the screen large enough to let pieces in - if in doubt pull it off and take the pump apart. Years ago I had an engine ruined that way, the debris locked up the oil pump and broke the pump drive shaft to the distributor.

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Dale, I think you're on to something. I bet you're probably right - I hope so because that would be the least problematic answer.

Roger - thanks for the info, I should have ask you first since you are the master artist of the models of these cars. Not sure how mine got orange paint on it - I think I'll paint it black. Hmmm...a Rolling Stones song comes to mind....

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I got a call right before lunch that my valve covers and lifter valley cover re-plating was ready, so I drove over to Maryland at lunch to pick them up. Very nice job they did - I'm very pleased with how they turned out.

Thank you Metro Plating and Polishing of Kensington, MD!

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After work I made my way to Falls Church and picked up the suspension parts. Very nice job they did - I couldn't do it myself because of the lack of tools and expertise, so I'm lucky I found the right folks to do the job. Thanks to Dave Thibeault for pointing me to those right folks. And a big thanks to Craftsman Automotive in Falls Church, VA for doing a great job!

I still need to clean the parts up and paint them. When I first took them to Craftsman we agreed that paying them to clean and paint the parts would be an added expense, so I was fine with doing that part myself later.

It's been a long and expensive day, but I am very happy with the results, thanks to some excellent people.

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That debris looks bigger than valve guide seals. I think it is more like one of the gaskets on the valve cover that seals the two bolts holding the cover on. Check them out.

I got to thinking late last night about the pieces you found in the oil pan, and came to the same conclusion as dale did - the 'bottom' part of the valve cover grommet (ie, the part that sticks inside the valve cover). And now that I see the pieces in relation to the size of the nickel, I'm sure that is what it is. I've seen these as hard as bakelite too! :)

Chrome looks great..........and that has to be the fastest chromer in the world!

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Yeah, I think Dale called it. When I came home today I rummaged through the boxes of new parts and found the new replacement grommets that go on the valve covers and I agree - that's probably it. And yes, they do bake and turn into bakelite!

I'm very happy with the chrome too - at first Steve Polsky of Metro Plating told me Feb. 1 they would be done, so I figured I had another week to go. Surprise, got them early! Very nice - very happy with them!

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Not much work on the Avanti yesterday - I did receive some parts from Studebaker International, most notably the oil pan gaskets. Also, the trunk latch cable and handle. I thought I would be able to salvage the old cable but, upon closer inspection, I found the cable had actually rusted into one piece in one area. And the handle was missing on mine. Now I can install that cable and re-install the fuel tank access panel. But first, the oil pan goes back on.

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Friday morning here and raining hard! Washing away all the sand they put on the parking lot because of ice last week here at work.

Speaking of work, I didn't have much time last night to do much more than clean up the old oil pan gaskets so I can get the oil pan put back on. It was really too late by the time I got home to do much but I decided to try to get something accomplished. So, engine block is clean where the oil pan goes, and hopefully I'll have the time tonight to put it back on.

Maybe I can hit a hardware store today and get some long bolts to use as guide pins, as Paul recommended. That will certainly help the re-install, I believe.

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Thanks Roger and John, I'll stop by Fairfax Auto Parts and see what they have. I've bounced around on the exhaust system - I started out thinking I would go stainless from the same guy you got yours from John. I believe the guy in Canada. Then I thought I would get a system from Dave Thibeault. I'm sure it will be stainless with medium tone mufflers. I was going to hold off on that until the last because the money well is dry. I bought too many parts - all necessary though. I did receive the first components of the exhaust yesterday - 2 shiny chrome exhaust deflectors from Avanti Parts & Restorations! It's a start on the exhaust.

Also, while spending quality time with my Avanti, underneath staring up at all the work that needs to be done, I noticed that the left side "down pipe" on the exhaust is being held on by just 1 nut, allowing the pipe to flop around. The other exhaust flange bolt has withered away, barely having any threads left to hold a nut. So, I ordered the flange repair kit from SI, which came this week with the oil pan gaskets. More fun! I always hated replacing those flange bolts, frozen in place and hard to get to. On the bright side, the suspension is not in the way and neither is the starter!

Edited by SeventhSon (see edit history)
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Well, the oil pan is back on. I cannot stress enough how much fun that was. I guess if I was an old Studebaker mechanic and I did a few of those a week I'd probably get pretty good at it! Pretty difficult assignment, so much so that last night I was ready to take a walk from this project. Instead I simply turned the drop light off, left the tools on the floor under the car, and called it a night. There's always tomorrow, right?

So, tomorrow, which was today, I finished getting the oil pan bolts back in (the ones up under the crossmember being the most fun), put a new oil filter on (thanks John) and tried out the copper drain plug washer I got today. Which didn't fit. Oh well, there's always tomorrow!

I know the oil pan probably should be semi-gloss black, but for now it's gloss black. I'll probably repaint it (without removing it!) in the future. And, in a few years, when I have the engine rebuilt, there will be a new oil pan put on. This one has serious rust pitting (really!).

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I found the correct size copper drain plug washer and installed it on the drain plug. Then, since I don't have rocker covers on the engine yet, I went to fill the crankcase with oil through the lifter valley. First I wanted to sop up what I thought was standing oil in the lifter valley. I was surprised to find that under the "puddles" of oil was sludge, hiding in the nooks and crannies. So I dug all of that out with numerous paper towels. Hopefully there's not too much more hanging around, if so I guess the good quality detergent oil will take care of it.

Then I poured about 5 quarts of Valvoline VR1 20W50 Racing Oil in and, since it's a Studebaker, a bottle of STP. Both of these lubricants contain ZDDP, which is a must for the metal on metal camshaft to lifter mating. So, I'm content that the power plant is in good hands as far as oil goes. I can't wait until the day I get to start her up - maybe 8 weeks from now? I hope...

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I decided to experiment with a brush on rust treatment where the front suspension control arms go. I used Rustoleum Rust Reformer mainly because of its brush on, odorless application. Goes on white, supposed to dry black but I didn't see where it did that. I mean, it went on white, but didn't really dry black. No big deal - like I said, I was experimenting. I know there are other products that are probably better suited for this purpose, most notably Eastwood's Rust Converter. I will probably use that in the future for the overall frame treatment, when the car is in another location. Right now I don't want to use any distillate based, high VOC treatments while the car resides where I reside. Not good to breathe those vapors and have them permeate the living quarters.

For now I will just treat those areas where I am going to bolt on new parts. Then I'll probably use a semi-gloss black paint (Rustoleum) in those same, limited areas.

In these pictures the treatment is still wet.

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Ha ha - yes, that tear in the metal bothers me too (not as much as hammering it out is going to bother someone else!). Probably a tow hook that didn't fit too well...

Yes, the minimum temp for application is 50 degrees F. I was probably right around that, maybe a teeny bit below...?

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