Guest garyd57olds Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I own a 1957 Oldsmobile 98 that was badged and certified HPOF in 2006 & 2007. I am very happy with this award,which was done at Hershey.I am reading in the December issue of Antique Automobile that owners of of vehicles previously certified twice at the HPOF level can make a request to the vice president of class judging to have their car re-considered for a AACAORIGINAL Award. I would like to make the request and I was wondering if their was a email address or person I can contact to help me with this request. Thanks Gary Della Vecchio Member #411063 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 In case you see this one before you see my response in the general forum...The VP of Class Judging is Herb Oakes.Herb's mailing address is:102 Converse DriveJacksonville, NC 28546Herb's email address is herbfran@gibralter.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest garyd57olds Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Thanks Again for your help. Have a nice Thanksgiving...Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belvedere Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 How does the criteria differ between HPOF and AACA Original? It wasn't explained in the AACA magazine. Will AACA Original be a separate class from HPOF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 How does the criteria differ between HPOF and AACA Original? It wasn't explained in the AACA magazine. Will AACA Original be a separate class from HPOF?One and the same!HPOFHistoric Preservation of Original Features!Also please note that Hulon McCraw said in the AACA Magazine article that AACA Original is now an AACA registered trademark for the HPOF Class.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmazcol Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ok now I'm curious. I've read the HPOF certification form available on line. It refers to a compliance table and what appears to a required score to receive the "original" level. I do not under stand how that number level is evaluated by the judges. I've totaled up the line items shown which may be where the number 30 comes from. In the case of a 60's era vehicle a score of 28 is needed. If the candidate has new hoses and a new set of tires on it will that be enough to DQ the "original" addition to the stock HPOF award?Just trying to get the huh look off my face.:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmazcol Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't know if there are any judges from the HPOF Evaluation Team on the Discussion Forum. I am also interested in knowing more about this since I have an original car that was too new for HPOF under last year's rules but that now belongs in HPOF. I am sure that I will be attending a CJE on HPOF as soon as I can, but that will be a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just checked the new listing for 2012 and found that Lars Anderson is the Chairman of HPOF. I have not yet found contact information for him. Matt, any ideas on how to contact him to see if he can address the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't see any contact information for him either. I would think that a phone call or email to Headquarters would probably be the best way to ask for an email address or phone number for him to ask the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't believe that HPOF and HPOF are "one and the same." I think HPOF Original is the "next level" of HPOF, where you have to have a higher percentage of originality to your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't see any contact information for him either. I would think that a phone call or email to Headquarters would probably be the best way to ask for an email address or phone number for him to ask the question.Thanks. I just sent an e-mail to Steve to see if he can help with contact info. for Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 West,As I understand it, after you receive HPOF certification, at a subsequent meet you can compete for the "AACA Original" award within the HPOF Class. It is sort of like going for a Senior after you first have obtained a 1st Junior. As I understand it, the current question is what level of original is required for the "AACA Original". The score sheet indicates a certain number but at the moment, we don't quite understand what equates to the required number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You are correct. I was responding to Wayne's comment that HPOF and HPOF Original were "one and the same." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmazcol Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You hit it on the head Matt. That is how I understand the HPOF "original" as well. A higher level of a HPOF. I'm just trying to understand the judging evaluation procedures to decide whether I go to that next level with my 442. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 West,Just to keep up the confusion, Wayne was answering lovesolderplymouth's question of "Will AACA Original be a separate class from HPOF?"Like always, this has been sort of an evolving discussion with at least 3 separate but related questions asked and answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 In meetings folks...will try to answer all of this later in the day. We will give you the answers you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Matt, wish I had the time to further delve into this but I am reaching out to someone else to answer this thread better. The concept of HPOF(features) was always heavily laden to the features side. Trying to recognize cars that had major parts that were original. The new Original designation within the class makes these cars the best of the best, the most overall original. There could not be a repaint, a new interior, etc. and win this award. These cars have to be clearly mostly original with the exception of minor items. Back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Matt, wish I had the time to further delve into this but I am reaching out to someone else to answer this thread better. The concept of HPOF(features) was always heavily laden to the features side. Trying to recognize cars that had major parts that were original. The new Original designation within the class makes these cars the best of the best, the most overall original. There could not be a repaint, a new interior, etc. and win this award. These cars have to be clearly mostly original with the exception of minor items. Back to work._______________________________________________________________________ Does a repaint of a body / parts prior to the delivery of the car to the original owner count as original?? The factory authorizes such things by empowering the dealer to act as a agent of the factory in such cases before delivery. Some customers like myself special ordered a car and would not take delivery until repairs be made before delivery. There was no paperwork given to me as a customer because I had not taken delivery until after the respray of some body parts. Would you trust a original owners word in such cases.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 A repaint is a repaint even if it happens at the dealer prior to delevery to the first owner. If you are aware of this on your HPOF car, you should disclose it when you complete the evaluation form for your car. This alone would not disqualify you from the Original Award. The 2012 Judges Manual is now available on this site from the main menu. It clarifies that every car which has previously won HPOF will be automaticly considered for the Original Award. The new evaluation form is available in the Judges Manual also. Good luck on your Original Certification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 How would a judge even know part of the car had been repainted by the dealer? Personally I would consider any work done by a dealer prior to delivery to be just like any other dealer installed factory authorized accessory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 As a judge I might have a problem if say an owner tried to convince me that the red fenders on his black car were "original" because the dealer resprayed them before delivery. In that case I would ask for documentation. If the respray was done to correct defective work done by the factory I would have no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) _______________________________________________________________________ Does a repaint of a body / parts prior to the delivery of the car to the original owner count as original?? The factory authorizes such things by empowering the dealer to act as a agent of the factory in such cases before delivery. Some customers like myself special ordered a car and would not take delivery until repairs be made before delivery. There was no paperwork given to me as a customer because I had not taken delivery until after the respray of some body parts. Would you trust a original owners word in such cases.D. If I had bought a car off the dealer lot back then I would have never known the car had been resprayed in some parts. Unlike today's disclosure laws, cars were sold that way. It wasn't until a few years later that you could tell some things were a miss with my paint. Color fade, and paint cracking because the substrate wasn't allowed to dry properly before tops coats were applied became clear. There is a very real difference between dealer installed accessories and the dealer acting as a agent of the factory...those types of repair in the factories eye are considered factory and it doesn't matter if the repair job was carried out in the factory repair shop or the dealer repair shop. The dealer IS the acting AGENT of the factory before delivery. Plus your warranty after delivery. Edited February 1, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm trying to figure out what your real question is. Are you saying that you purchased a new car and as a condition of the purchase you had the dealer respray parts of the body and that now those resprayed panels are deteriorating faster than the rest of the car and you want to know how this will affect the car's "original" status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm trying to figure out what your real question is. Are you saying that you purchased a new car and as a condition of the purchase you had the dealer respray parts of the body and that now those resprayed panels are deteriorating faster than the rest of the car and you want to know how this will affect the car's "original" status?_______________________________________________________________________ Yes, and the facts I presented in my threads prove the cars paint should be judged as original.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I agree.___________________________________________________________________________ Thank you for your empathy. What I need is something official.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 How would a judge even know there was any repainting unless you told hem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) How would a judge even know there was any repainting unless you told hem?__________________________________________________________________________ I think anyone that knows body and paint, has a firm grasp of cars and certainly a judge would be able to tell. I can even see it in a picture I have of my car.....and you know how forgiving pictures can be. In this particular picture the sun hits just right and really does the job on the drivers door.http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20830/images/p1080790.jpgThis picture of the rt side on a cloudy day makes the resprayed rt ft door look ok, but it's color is off in bright sunlight...It's identical to the left doors hue.http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20832/images/img_0124.jpg When I have entered the car in OCA shows I have to carry a letter from the chief judge of OCA that explains the paint to the judges on the ground. I install my original wheels and wheel covers for a OCA event, just in case you were wondering. D. Edited February 2, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I think anyone that knows body and paint, has a firm grasp of cars and certainly a judge would be able to tell".Well that certainly leaves me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What does HPOF stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What does HPOF stand for?Historical Preservation of Original Features Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Historical Preservation of Original FeaturesThanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Backyardmechanic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Helfen,Do you still have your copy of the orginial order form when you frist order the car.If so this should be prof that you did order the car the said way.And yes it was spray so you would accept the purchase. If above is true one could just show the Bill of order and act dumb on why the panels are faded.Vern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Helfen,Do you still have your copy of the orginial order form when you frist order the car.If so this should be prof that you did order the car the said way.And yes it was spray so you would accept the purchase. If above is true one could just show the Bill of order and act dumb on why the panels are faded.Vern_______________________________________________________________________ I have the work up sheet, the order form, and the sales contract. The order form is before delivery and obviously would say nothing about paint because the car wasn't made yet. I would not sign the sales contract until the body and paint were corrected. There was no written order or refusal of the car signed by me, just a verbal from me that I would pick up the car when the car was repaired and ready. There is nothing in the sales contract that states the car had to be repaired before delivery. I could act dumb as you say, but the only fool on the show field would be me because as I said before it's obvious the paint does not match. It's better to tell the truth about why it is the way it is.D. Edited February 10, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 _______________________________________________________________________I have the work up sheet, the order form, and the sales contract. The order form is before delivery and obviously would say nothing about paint because the car wasn't made yet. I would not sign the sales contract until the body and paint were corrected. There was no written order or refusal of the car signed by me, just a verbal from me that I would pick up the car when the car was repaired and ready. There is nothing in the sales contract that states the car had to be repaired before delivery.I could act dumb as you say, but the only fool on the show field would be me because as I said before it's obvious the paint does not match. It's better to tell the truth about why it is the way it is.D.Question. Is the dealership where you purchased the car still in business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Question. Is the dealership where you purchased the car still in business?_________________________________________________________________ No Susan, this dealer went out of business somewhere in the late 70's. Not surprising because the dealer had many lawsuits because of bad business and customer relations...... Like when I pointed out the sand and bubbles in the hood, and the dents in the two ft doors of my car and said they would have to fix those things before I finalized the deal ,,, and the salesman and the sales manager said to me " what do you expect, a Rolls Royce"? I said to my wife, well their going to know in time that this sort of attitude and poor product quality will spell the end of the easy days for domestic's:(. I had already been working for a importer for three years ( and since the mid eighties they are a manufacturer here ) and retired from after thirty four years, I thought I would give Olds-GM a chance. That was the LAST GM car we ever bought. Like I said before, at the company I worked for the car would have never made it out the factory door. On the other side of the metal, mechanically speaking the car is one of the best I've ever owned. What car do you know of that still has it's original fuel pump,P/S pump, alternator, rear brake shoes, carburetor-(never rebuilt)air pump,--Engine, trans,rear end--never been apart all with over 110,000 miles!! D. Edited February 11, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 _________________________________________________________________No Susan, this dealer went out of business somewhere in the late 70's. Not surprising because the dealer had many lawsuits because of bad business and customer relations...... Like when I pointed out the sand and bubbles in the hood, and the dents in the two ft doors of my car and said they would have to fix those things before I finalized the deal ,,, and the salesman and the sales manager said to me " what do you expect, a Rolls Royce"? I said to my wife, well their going to know in time that this sort of attitude and poor product quality will spell the end of the easy days for domestic's:(. I had already been working for a importer for three years ( and since the mid eighties they are a manufacturer here ) and retired from after thirty four years, I thought I would give Olds-GM a chance. That was the GM car we ever bought. Like I said before, at the company I worked for the car would have never made it out the factory door. On the other side of the metal, mechanically speaking the car is one of the best I've ever owned. What car do you know of that still has it's original fuel pump,P/S pump, alternator, rear brake shoes, carburetor-(never rebuilt)air pump,--Engine, trans,rear end--never been apart all with over 110,000 miles!! D.Not sure that I know of any but there probably are a few.I was hoping that they were still in business and might somehwere have a time card log to show who it was that did the painting on it. At least that would be documentation from them.We had a deal to buy a Subaru Legacy wagon several years ago but it fell through because they were all wheel drive by then and can't be towed flat or on a tow dolly. It had had to be fixed like your car was because in a wind storm a portable sign had blown over into one of the rear doors and damaged it. They had fixed it and it didn't look any different than the rest of the car. But we saw it no more than a week after it had been fixed. Not sure what it would have looked like as many years down the road as your car is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) _______________________________________________________________________ Does a repaint of a body / parts prior to the delivery of the car to the original owner count as original?? The factory authorizes such things by empowering the dealer to act as a agent of the factory in such cases before delivery. Some customers like myself special ordered a car and would not take delivery until repairs be made before delivery. There was no paperwork given to me as a customer because I had not taken delivery until after the respray of some body parts. Would you trust a original owners word in such cases.D.______________________________________________________________ Back to the un-answered question too.D. Edited February 11, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 helfen,Since this is an AACA forum, I'm assuming you wish to have your car certified as AACA HPOF and then HPOF Original. You should disclose on the judging form exactly what you have discussed in this forum along with the documentation you have including the decision of the Olds club to the judging team. They are the ones who will make the decison on if your car qualifies as HPOF or not. I think your chances are good. Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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