1965 RIVI Gran Sport single quad

[Guest olmsedd2]

Hey Guys, I found this beauty in Greensboro NC. on Craigslist. I drove 22 hours with a trailer and broad it back to Texas to it's new home. It has 68,030 miles and has numbers matching engine, chassis and title. I have a little work to do with the wipers and ignition switch to pass the out of state inspection to change the title. The interior is pretty new with new seats and carpetjust needs new wood on the doors.

My question is what tires size to install on it. I like the wider look but I understand the rims have to be a certain size. Do you all know what size are the rims and what would be the widest tire to install on it?

I hope I can attach the pictures I uploaded.

Thanks for reading

[bepnewt]

What a beauty. Welcome to Riv ownership!

First, you will want to make a signature and put your real name and general location in there. This tends to be a first-name basis forum and having your location on all your posts will help out when people are lending a virtual hand.

As for wheels and tires, start here:

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/64-riv-need-wheel-spec-advice-307754.html

Follow links in that thread, too. There's a ton of information about wheel and tires sizes that will fit on the Rivs on the forums, here. If you're wanting to emulate what it rolled off the line with, you'll be able to find that info or if you're wanting to see how fat you can go, you'll find that info. I don't know much about wheels except that my '64 had a random set of rallys from years that really didn't fit my car. People here set me straight and I got them off as quickly as I could.

Again, welcome. I think there's a contingent of Riv owners down there in Texas ( How ABOUT that Baylor game tonight!! Woo-Hoo! ) that may just be local to you - including Jim Cannon, who just may know a thing or two ( or 5,390 ) to help you out!

-BEPNewt

[Guest olmsedd2]

Hey Bepnewt, Sorry I appeared so vague on my first tread. I have no idea on how to do what you are suggesting. I guess I have to learn the rules and signatures etc. before I start dropping posts. I was just excided about my car and wanted to share I am a member of the riviera owners association.

Thanks for the information though and I will return when I am more ready to establish a good repore with you guys. My name is Eduardo (Eddie) salinas from Lexington Texas.

You are right, what a game. sure kept me on my feet. Sorry about the Sooners but Baylor needed a break. Anyway not too studied on football either so before I put my foot in my mouth, Adios Amigos.

[bepnewt]

You _should_ be excited about that car - it's gorgeous. There's been some discussion here lately about vinyl tops and I definitely like yours "with".

No major rules on the signatures, except may some unwritten ones like "no 10meg animated gifs" or something. You'll just end up getting people replying to your posts asking where you live, etc. so if you toss that in your sig or in the Location spot in the User Details you'll save yourself some time with replies. You'll also find other people near you willing to help out as much as they can. It's a great community here.

You have a '65 Riv GS - I think that automagically qualifies you for having a good rapport here! The single-quad thing is interesting; people will want to hear the story on that and if you're looking to go back to duals, you'll find all the info you need here in the forum.

Don't go anywhere, Eddie! =) You found the right place. To add stuff to your sig, click on the "User CP" link at the top left in the menu bar then on the left side of that page, click on "Edit Signature" and toss your name in there along with what your drive and anything else you want to share.

Also on the left side where the "Edit Signature" link is, you will find an "Edit Your Details" link. Click that, scroll down, and there's a place where you can type in your location.

No apologies for the Sooners needed here in this house. My wife wants me to paint my Riv Orange for a reason (OSU)! She can't stand that my T-Bird is "Merlot", but that may be a moot point since I wrecked it last weekend and it may be totaled. I think she was secretly happy...

Oh, you'll also want to mention in your sig that you are a ROA member to cut down on suggestions that you join.

Post some pics of the interior of that sweet Riv. Let us know what your plans are with the wood replacements - stock, custom, dark, light, etc. and you'll get some good suggestion in that area, too.

And finally, you will want to get a good pic of your data plate and get it decoded if you haven't already. Someone on here keeps a registry of all the '65 Grand Sports and will want your car registered if it isn't already.

Not much that I know of happens here in the Tulsa area with Buick Clubs so I intend to hit Texas some time with my Riv. I hope I see you there when I do.

Hitting bed, catcha later.

-BEPNewt

[Guest carlbraun]

Congrats on the car.

THe car looks awesome with the blackwalls as they compliment the black top but I would like to see a set of bias ply red line Coker tires on this car.

Give us some details on the engine code and the trim tag. I am not a yinyl top guru but maybe Dick Sweeney can chime in with the correct designation on the trim tag for the vinyl top...I thinks its just a little stamped star isnt it??

More pics please and good luck with the car; its a stunner.

Carl

[RivNut]

Most of the things others have been suggesting can be created by clicking on the "user CP" link in the tool bar at the top of the page. When you're there, you'll find other links to signatures, avatars, how to set location etc.

As Carl says, "give us some details on the engine code and trim tag." I'm thinking the reason he's asking is that there were no Gran Sports delivered from the factory with the single barrel engine. You'll probably want to know if the engine in your car is "matching numbers" and if it is, where is the two four barrel set up that came with it. There's also information out there on Identifying a Gran Sport. You can read more about engine codes and trim tags by searching the forum. Do an advanced search and limit the search to the ROA forum, otherwise, you'll be reading about trim tags on 1912 Maxwells and anything else that had a trim tag.

Ed

[Guest BIGRIV]

Nice find Eddie!! I also think redline tires would set her off right!! There is a great bunch of guys on this forum...I have not had to do anything to my 67 yet (she is very well behaved) thankfully! I know when I do though, I am in very good hands here. Best of luck with her!!!

[Guest onedesertdog]

You definetly done good on that find. Nice pics. I keep hoping my 65 will look that nice one day.

[whitewatersky]

that is one sexy Riv you got there Eddie !

[Jim Cannon]

My specialty is '63 Rivs. Did the '65 Gran Sport come with a single 4-bbl carb?

[mt65riv]

Nice Riv! It's beautiful... nice trailer, too.

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

Congrats on the new toy, Eddie !!

That is one SWEET 65 !!

[lrlforfun]

OK Eddie: These 65 Rivs make me nutty...actually all first-gen Rivs keep me nutty. Mitch

[Guest carlbraun]

My specialty is '63 Rivs. Did the '65 Gran Sport come with a single 4-bbl carb?

No...the GS cars had the dual quads. Hoping to hear back from the owner to see what the engine code is, etc

[1965rivgs]

Exterior color code is designated by two characters...so, CC denotes Arctic white upper and lower body. A factory vinyl top car is designated by a "2" which is "black vinyl top". So, a White car with a black vinyl top should have C2 as the upper and lower body code on the Fisher Body plate.

One of my first Rivs had this color combo (black over silver)... that was 30 years ago, but I still like it...nice contrast, especially when it sits low and shiney!

Tom Mooney

[Guest olmsedd2]

Ok Guys, Here it goes. The car has all the Gran Sport emblems outside , the glove compartment has Gran Sport on the door, but I didn't know the Gran sports came with a single 4 barrel carb. I contacted the previous owner and he told me that this doctor originally ordered the car as a Gran Sport but He wanted the single carb. I cannot verify this other than the emblems on the car. The engine is numbers matching LW 525 5H945420 and VIN 494475H94542. So they are matching. I would've thought this was a normal Riviera with an LW code engine but why have all the additional Gran Sport emblems. Does anyone know of this option.

Here is the build plate from Fisher.

ST 65-49447 FB-239635

TR 628 Z2

WXTS-2KR-4F-5KW

Hope you can help me clear some of my confusion.

Thanks

[RivNut]

If the engine code is LW and the engine serial number matches the VIN, then it's a numbers matching car. The Gran Sport option was the LX engine and some other items to help the car handle the higher horse power of the LX engine. It had larger exhaust pipes with gentler curves, it had a ST400 transmission with a different valve body, and 3.42 posi-trac rear end. Look for these other items (if they haven't been replaced) and let us know what you find. From what I've learned, there would be no way to order the Gran Sport option with a single four barrel engine. That was what the Grans Sport option was all about. It wouldn't be too hard to find the glove box lid and emblems from a junked out Gran Sport and add them to a base Riviera. Nice story about the Dr. but I have my doubts.

Ed

[Guest olmsedd2]

Thanks for the quick response, That's what I thought. I really wanted it to be the real LW engine because there were less cars built with that engine than the Gran Sports. That is more important to me than the GS stuff. I just as well take off all that Gran Sport emblem stuff. I will check on this first like the TH400 and the rear end. If it's not then gran sport, I will remove all that and leave it original. Thanks for your help

[Patrick91914]

Thanks for the quick response, That's what I thought. I really wanted it to be the real LW engine because there were less cars built with that engine than the Gran Sports. That is more important to me than the GS stuff. I just as well take off all that Gran Sport emblem stuff. I will check on this first like the TH400 and the rear end. If it's not then gran sport, I will remove all that and leave it original. Thanks for your help

Just to be clear, the car is not a GS. The matching numbers LW code is a dead giveaway.

Not sure what you mean by "I really wanted it to be the real LW engine because there were less cars built with that engine than the Gran Sports."

I suspect that what you meant is that you hoped the car was a non-GS dual-quad car. If so, I believe those vehicles came with LX-coded motors. As far as I know, an LW code refers only to single carb 425s. As has been discussed in the past, the GS package includes the properly coded distributor, 2x4 carbs, dual snorkel chrome air cleaner with "Super Wildcat" Decal, LX block, posi rear end, "Gran Sport" badges (on fender, rear deck, and glove box), shorter springs, and larger diameter exhausts.

Regardless of what it is, it's still a '65 Riviera, the best of the breed. The design declined after that year.

[Guest Rob J]

Yep, story sounds very suspect. As stated all Gran Sports had L X coded engines, and being that the car is matching numbers, you know the engine hasn't been changed. I suspect early on in the car's life, the original owner added the GS badges for the "look". I imagine in those days, you could go to the dealer, and order the glove box plate, and all the body emblems without issue.

Get under the car on the passenger's side, and look up at the side of the tranny. You will see a metal tag on the tranny. GS cars had a BS code on them. If it's coded anything other than B S, then it either isn't a GS car, or the tranny had been changed at some point. Also, jack the rear end of the car up to lift both rear tires off the ground. Turn one wheel, and watch in which direction the other wheel turns. If the other wheel turns in the opposite direction, then you have a standard non-posi differential. All GS's came with a 3.42 Posi rear end. On the carrier flange, you will also see a O with an x inside of it stamped, again indicating it is a Posi rear end. Posi rear ends also had tags attached to the fill plug that stated Limited slip fluid only.

Rob.

[Guest olmsedd2]

Hey Guys, Thanks for all the response. I guess what I was trying to convey was that I was glad that the car has matching numbers and everything in the Fisher build plate is there except for the LW engine which makes it a non Gran Sport application. The websites say there were only 2311 Rivieras with the LW 425CI. engine produced. Is this right? or am I reading this wrong?

[Guest olmsedd2]

I agree with you Guys, I think the early owner bought the badging for the look and just ordered the car with the 425ci. LW engine. I will check the things mentioned and get back to you guys.

Regardless of which it is, it is a beautifull car and with no rust and passed the Texas state inspection to change the title from NC. I can't ask for anything more. I love Rivieras and this one is special because I drove 22 hrs each way to go get it. I still need to fix the clams motor though but $7,200.00 well spent. Awesome website and forum support Guys thanks a bunch

Eddie

[RivNut]

Patrick, et al;

Eddie is correct in what he's stating. There were fewer 425 single four barrel (LW) Rivieras (2,311) built in '65 than the LX code 425's (3,354 Gran Sports + the 454 non-GS units,) ergo, his combo is more rare than an LX engined Riviera. In '65 the standard engine was a 401 (LT), with the LW and LX engines as options.

In 63, of the 40,000 units built, all but 2801 had 401's (JT), the 2,801 had 425's JW). In '64 ALL Riviera's had 425's (KW).

Ed

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera People: Perhaps it's not a GS but if I had GS emblems on my non GS I would sure think it was (even though it wasn't) and I would still have a smile on my face.

I put many miles on my GS and I paid extra for every one. Between rebuilding the carbs, engine, tranny and all the other stuff that wears out on a big heavy old car, the cost is a lot more than a car payment........believe me! My ego was definitely on cloud #9 with that thing so.............enjoy your new 65 Riv weather it be a GS or a 6 cylinder! Mitch

[Patrick91914]

Patrick, et al;

Eddie is correct in what he's stating. There were fewer 425 single four barrel (LW) Rivieras (2,311) built in '65 than the LX code 425's (3,354 Gran Sports + the 454 non-GS units,) ergo, his combo is more rare than an LX engined Riviera. In '65 the standard engine was a 401 (LT), with the LW and LX engines as options.

In 63, of the 40,000 units built, all but 2801 had 401's (JT), the 2,801 had 425's JW). In '64 ALL Riviera's had 425's (KW).

Ed

Interesting tidbit....didn't know that....then again, I don't know much about most things.

[Guest olmsedd2]

Hey Fellas, thanks again for chiming in everyone. Ed thanks for verifying what I needed to know. Patrick it's cool that you all guard the legitimacy of these cool cars so jealously. I admire that. At the end of the day, I feel great I have one of the 2311 LW Rivis and though not a Grand Sport, a true classic in my book. My third riviera and first rare one. My first Rivi was a 1987 Grand National and my second I gave to my Son to start his first Rivi build and spark his love for the old Rivis like us.

Very best wishes on these Holidays for all and thank you for your help

[Guest Rob J]

Hey Fellas, thanks again for chiming in everyone. Ed thanks for verifying what I needed to know. Patrick it's cool that you all guard the legitimacy of these cool cars so jealously. I admire that. At the end of the day, I feel great I have one of the 2311 LW Rivis and though not a Grand Sport, a true classic in my book. My third riviera and first rare one. My first Rivi was a 1987 Grand National and my second I gave to my Son to start his first Rivi build and spark his love for the old Rivis like us.

Very best wishes on these Holidays for all and thank you for your help

As stated above, you certainly have a very nice car, GS, or not. In my opinion, the 65 is the epitome of all Riviera's. It's the way Bill Mitchell wanted it. 63's and 64's are nice, but just not the same in my book as a 65. 66's and 67's are nice, but again, not like a 65. But of course this is my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

BTW, here's a pic of my 87 Grand National. It is a totally original, unmolested 16k mile survivor. Never been painted, modified, raced, ect. Even has the original tires on it. I only drive it a couple of miles here and there to car shows, ect. The car is truly museum quality.

[Guest olmsedd2]

Sweet ride. I love the power that six turbo puts out. I played with mine for two years and doubled my money when sold. Enjoy that fine example of awesome American engineering battling the environmental demons while making horse power. That was the genious of the Grand National and thanks for your reply.

[BadgerRivFan]

In '64 ALL Riviera's had 425's (KW).

Ed

True, but don't forget that not all '64s had the KW code 425 Ed, 2,122 of the years production had the optional KX code 2X4 bbl. 425! My personal favorite!! ...Before GS - KX!

[1965rivgs]

Just a note about some of the comments...

The GS package did NOT include the H2 handling package. The H2 option was a seperate option from the GS option. So, not all GS cars necessarily were equipped with the H2 option. I have owned quite a few GS cars without the H2 option. I have the numbers but off hand I would say my experience has been about 50/50.

The H2 option came with different springs, shocks, track bar bushings and a quicker steering box..too quick, in my opinion. Makes the car "twitchy" going down the road, especially at high speeds.

Also, it is possible to find a legitimate, original GS with a rear gear ratio which is not 3:42. I owned one with a 3:23 that I am convinced was original. Buick printed a GS specific chart which notes the availability of optional ratios for the GS equipped cars and called the 3:23 a "turnpike" gear.

The latest point is a good example of being careful with absolute terms like "never".."all"...etc. For instance, we all know that ALL `64 Rivieras were produced with the 425 engine, right? ..Wrong! Buick produced 275 low compression single 4 bbl `64 Rivs for export. So, it is possible to find an original numbers matching `64 Riv which is factory equipped with a 401. Same goes for `66

Tom Mooney

[Jim Cannon]

Ok Guys, Here it goes. The car has all the Gran Sport emblems outside , the glove compartment has Gran Sport on the door, but I didn't know the Gran sports came with a single 4 barrel carb. I contacted the previous owner and he told me that this doctor originally ordered the car as a Gran Sport but He wanted the single carb. I cannot verify this other than the emblems on the car. The engine is numbers matching LW 525 5H945420 and VIN 494475H94542. So they are matching. I would've thought this was a normal Riviera with an LW code engine but why have all the additional Gran Sport emblems. Does anyone know of this option.

Here is the build plate from Fisher.

ST 65-49447 FB-239635

TR 628 Z2

WXTS-2KR-4F-5KW

Hope you can help me clear some of my confusion.

Thanks

It is easy to add badges to a non-GS car.

[Guest olmsedd2]

Yep, Jim You are correct and that's what they did on this car. I think early in it's life, someone wanted to make it look as a Gran Sport. I dont know why someone would do that since the car has a numbers matching LW 425 engine and it is more rare than the Gran Sport? Go figure but some one did install all the GS stuff for it. I think I will just leave it like that. I like that the car would be dressed as some other car style as if being an impostor of a GS would make me like it more. To me its like trying to make a pearl look like a diamond so someone else can admire and like it when a pearl is just what I wanted. Enough poetry not a Gran sport but a rare car indeed only 2311 made.

Eddie:D

[Guest olmsedd2]

Hey Jim, You wouldn't have one or those brake booster hose connectors, The one that twists onto the brake booster?. They are white with three notches that slide right on the booster and then seal when you twist it right and the vaccum hose attaches to it?. I need one badly.

[1965rivgs]

It is not surprising someone would add the GS emblems in spite of the fact the LW equipped car is more rare. It is simply because, in spite of the relative production numbers, the GS is more desirable and hence, more valuable. Apparently, Buick buyers thought so in `65 too. I have encountered a few LX only equipped cars, which are rarer still, which have been converted to GS cars. I love them all,

Tom Mooney

[Jim Cannon]

Hey Jim, You wouldn't have one or those brake booster hose connectors, The one that twists onto the brake booster?. They are white with three notches that slide right on the booster and then seal when you twist it right and the vaccum hose attaches to it?. I need one badly.

No. Sorry.

[RivNut]

Eddie,

Is this the part you're looking for?

Old Buick Parts - CARS. Inc.

or

http://www.classicbuicks.com/A_3_Power_Brake_Booster_Vacuum_Check_Valve.html

The Riviera Owner's Association has a very large list of restoration services and vendors on their website. You should join to access all of the information available.

Here's the link. It's the best restoration bang for your buck.

Welcome to the Riviera Owners Association Homepage

Ed

[Guest olmsedd2]

Thanks Ed I found the part I needed with Tim Sweely in Ca. He has been helping me with odds and ends that are hard to find.

I'm already a member of the ROA but thanks for promoting the membership. Also thanks you Mr Mooney for your comments.