Guest chequenman Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I need to know the exact routing of the 3/8" Neoprene Line from the Fuel Pump back to the Steel lines that run along the passenger side frame rail. I'm assuming it runs through the inside of the front Frame Horn to just ahead of the "A" Arm where it pops out of the Frame and then to the Pump. The 1/4" neoprene return Line comes from the Fuel Filter mounted on the Oil filler neck and I have been noticing a channel along the inner fender for routing the line but I need to be sure before I assemble everything else?? :confused: :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (neoprene??????) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) (neoprene??????)Neoprene is the Rubber type of hose used for Gas lines......... Edited November 6, 2011 by chequenman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've successfully routed the fuel line to factory routing in only one car and that was simply done by using the old hose/line to gently pull new hose through the routing, but you have to pull from underneath the car not the engine compartment while having someone feeding from an ample supply of bulk hose. It takes a fair number of feet of hose. I candidly don't think it possible to otherwise install new fuel line given all the twists and turns in the original routing. The best thing to do is to route it as it best seems logical to you. It is my personal belief the original factory routing can best be described as borderline stupid, if not potentially dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've successfully routed the fuel line to factory routing in only one car and that was simply done by using the old hose/line to gently pull new hose through the routing, but you have to pull from underneath the car not the engine compartment while having someone feeding from an ample supply of bulk hose. It takes a fair number of feet of hose. I candidly don't think it possible to otherwise install new fuel line given all the twists and turns in the original routing. The best thing to do is to route it as it best seems logical to you. It is my personal belief the original factory routing can best be described as borderline stupid, if not potentially dangerous.Jim, are you routing the Main feed gas line through the inside of the right Frame? and what about the return line, or if your car wasn't an Air car it wouldn't have a return Line so you wouldn't know where it is placed.....:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Jim, are you routing the Main feed gas line through the inside of the right Frame? and what about the return line, or if your car wasn't an Air car it wouldn't have a return Line so you wouldn't know where it is placed.....:confused:'62 was a year a lot of on the fly engineering changes were apparently being made by Olds and some of the the changes may have been done in one production plant and not others from what I can tell. I actually have 3 '62 Starfires (one is a parts car) and all were factory air cars. Two have like configurations under the hood with the A/C, the other different. One came with a PCV valve the others not. None have a fuel return line and one actually came with a fuel pump that was supposedly used only on non A/C equipped cars. But all did/do have routing of the fuel line through a portion of the frame as I recall without going out an looking. It was the forward exit from the frame that I felt made the routing dangerous.While I haven't done it, one of these days I'm going to bend tubing to route the line along the contour of the inner wheel well and mount with retainers thus shortening the footage of flex hose and eliminating the hazard of chafing of the flex line. If you haven't already replaced the flex hose from the tank to the rigid line do so. It's probably "weeping" fuel and very dangerous given the proximity to an exhaust pipe. It's routing is not exactly sane either, but more so than the flex line in the front. It's obvious that no one at Olds at the time ever figured on anyone needing to replace the flexible fuel lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 The green non-air car wasn't that bad to route the new lines thru the framerails. The blue 64 with factory air OTOH sent my soul to hell trying to pull both the suction and return lines thru the rear section. Even my normally patient Pontiac bud was questioning Oldsmobile's engineering and production practices by the time we finished. The Toronado front was amazingly easy compared to the Starfires.I guess they figured the rubber lines would be protected by routing them thru the frame. Then they ran the metal line on the OUTSIDE of the frame under the rocker panel. Go figure.Still hoping Mike C can get you some pictures of what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfireelvis Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Hi Glenn, and everyone; unfortunately I dropped the Starfire off down at my mechanic's last week to have a few not-so-major things addressed; however I would be willing to wager that the man with the ultimate answers here will be Paul, as he had a situation a couple years back that makes him intimately familiar with this situation, if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldsfan Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 The rubber feed line runs up through the frame and comes out a hole toward the front, where it bends to the left (sitting in the car) and hooks up to the pump. There's a clip on the frame to hook it in.The a/c return line runs through a loop attached to the compressor bracket, then over to the inner fender well where it runs through that channel, along with the washer fluid line. At the rear, it runs through the opening in the torque box where the front body mount is, and then hooks to the steel line returning to the tank. Do not run the return line to the inside of the body mount and then around the corner of the torque box to get to the metal line. This places the return line too close to the exhaust manifold, heating the fuel returning to the tank. Doing so raises the temperature of the fuel in the tank as the level drops, pulling hot fuel into the hot pump, causing vapor lock. Been there. Done that. Not fun. And rather expensive. I can provide pics, but I should have known about this earlier today. It's dark now. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfireelvis Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 See, told you so... Thanks, Paul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 The reason I wondered about the "neoprene" term is that I haven't seen that used in ages. I also highly suspect that neoprene would not be tolerant of ethanol'd fuels in more modern times.What I remember of neoprene was that it was used for fluids other than gasoline, back then. It was somewhat thin in construction and internal fabric reinforcements, as I recall. MUCH more suitable "rubber" fuel line hoses now, which are much more tolerant of alcohol-extended gasoline blends, including some specifically blended to work with E85 fuel.Jim's comment about replacing the rear feed rubber fuel lines is highly accurate, for almost any car built before 1993. Those lines are "out of sight, out of mind", yet they can weep/leak/seep fuel due to modern fuel blends/composition and normal deterioration due to their advancing age.Regards,NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The reason I wondered about the "neoprene" term is that I haven't seen that used in ages. I also highly suspect that neoprene would not be tolerant of ethanol'd fuels in more modern times.What I remember of neoprene was that it was used for fluids other than gasoline, back then. It was somewhat thin in construction and internal fabric reinforcements, as I recall. MUCH more suitable "rubber" fuel line hoses now, which are much more tolerant of alcohol-extended gasoline blends, including some specifically blended to work with E85 fuel.Jim's comment about replacing the rear feed rubber fuel lines is highly accurate, for almost any car built before 1993. Those lines are "out of sight, out of mind", yet they can weep/leak/seep fuel due to modern fuel blends/composition and normal deterioration due to their advancing age.Regards,NTX5467Neoprene has no issues with Ethanol. It is in fact impervious to being attacked by just about any and every other chemical that one can imagine.Below is a link that gives a list of chemicals Neoprene O-Rings have no issue with being in contact with, even over extended exposure time.eFunda: Chemicals Compatibile with O-Ring Material Neoprene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well, well, well Gentlemen I must admit your response to my question is very conclusive. This Starfire is a conv. having getting close to completing a Frame Off restoration which I'm in my 22nd. year of Restoring this car. Everything has been changed to like new parts, including duplicating the red oxide color of the underside floorboards, and replicating even all of the Undercoat that was sprayed when new. This Car was purchased as a basket case so I'm not aware of how everything was prior to the disassembly of all the small Parts. The Flexible Fuel lines have all been replaced (front & back) and the steel lines were like new so they were just buffed,coated with Vinyl Wash and shot with stainless Steel colored Paint. The flexible fuel lines are high pressure fuel injector hose so the Ethanol compatibility will not be a concern but thanks for mentioning that, as others who read this will be reminded. Just wanted to say that Steve Westlake used this Starfire to start building the first set of the Aluminum Panels of which I'm still not there to get them installed. He started the process back in the early Nineties so this car has to get completed so as not to make him think that all his work was in Vane! Paul, I would also like to see some Pics. of the Return line around the Torque Box as this sounds to be the trickiest and only if it's not to difficult for you as I still haven't started to assemble my front clip yet, this is the Time to do everything as correct as possible. Thanks again everyone Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thanks for the information, Jim.NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsd9699 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Wow - 22 years - my hat is off to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I have a question about the "red oxide" color? It was used for years and years on govmo cars. It feels different than paint and I always thought it was a sealer of some type rubber?What did you determine it to be and if not paint - where did you get it?Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The Red Oxide color on the underside of all of the floors and trunk area is Single Stage ICI Paint using their Base Tint of Red Oxide, using a flattening agent as not to have any particular shine, and to lighten it up a bit we mixed in some Bright White Base to my own liking. The Red Oxide was sprayed over top of a Two Stage Primer Sealer to seal everything and also to maintain uniformity.This procedure was done for longevity and to duplicate the original appearance of the underneath and to not have it painted the Body color of the Car. Hope this helps you understand what I've done and to find that Red Oxide color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurst_Olds_1968 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 PICTURES PLEASE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsd9699 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thanks for the info.I am wondering what they used to "glue" the waffle paper to the inner door panels, trunk, etc and that prompted the question.Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) PICTURES PLEASE! Hurst; Pictures are difficult at this time, as when I lowered the Body shell back onto the Frame I've covered the frame with a 6Mil. Sheet of Plastic to protect the Chassis from getting any overspray during the preparation of Body work and Primering. The under side of the car is completely covered by this Plastic and pictures are just not available at this time unless you wanted to come over to my Shop and you can see for yourself... Edited November 13, 2011 by chequenman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurst_Olds_1968 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Hurst; Pictures are difficult at this time, as when I lowered the Body shell back onto the Frame I've covered the frame with a 6Mil. Sheet of Plastic to protect the Chassis from getting any overspray during the preparation of Body work and Primering. The under side of the car is completely covered by this Plastic and pictures are just not available at this time unless you wanted to come over to my Shop and you can see for yourself... I would love to stop by! Put on a poy of strong coffee and I'll see you around 4pm!BTW what state are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I would love to stop by! Put on a poy of strong coffee and I'll see you around 4pm!BTW what state are you in? Hurst; I'm about 35 miles northwest of Toronto, in the Province of Ontario Canada, so once you've cleared our Borders give me a call and I'll put on a pot of Coffee so it will be just strong enough for your liking..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurst_Olds_1968 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Will you take pics once the car is finished? That should be in how many more years ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurst_Olds_1968 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 BTW here is video of mine.... needs years of work as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chequenman Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Will you take pics once the car is finished? That should be in how many more years ya think? Probably no more than 10-12 years!!! :eek: Just using my Past as a reference!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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