Guest pyrodork Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 managed to get the exhaust manifold off my 37 tonight to accommodate the new gaskets i bought. lo and behold, there's the valve covers i've been hearing about. took off the front one and didn't like what i saw. besides being full of sludge, there's a hole in the bottom. i don't know... but i don't think that's supposed to be there. could someone inform me? there's straight edges, but i suppose that could've been caused by a thrown rod, too (the same one that cracked my piston and put a hole in my oil pan?). assuming the worst, would i be better off trying to find another straight 6, or getting this (inexpensive) late 60's mopar 360 (with 2 trans and a rear end) and all that's involved with that? i did find a loose 35 dodge engine/tranny/carb/gen/MC/starter/etc from a 1-ton for $200. says it ran when parked years ago, but does not turn by hand now. worth anything?and totally unrelated, how about them 1920's ford flathead 4's? i found an inexpensive truck with one. it turns, but not sure if it runs. i assume parts are easy to come by, as it's a ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 There are drain holes from the valve gallery back to the pan. Its been so long since I've had mine off that I don't remember the exact location or shape.Seems unlikely that something moving around in the engine would cause a square cut hole and not take out the entire camshaft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 i know. it's an odd shape if it was, indeed, an accident. i did see a metal piece inside it (i still think the piston broke apart at the bottom), but when i tried to get it out, it fell into the oil pan... which i still can't get off. i've never disassembled anything bigger than a lawn mower engine or a partial disassembly of a 250 motorcycle engine. yes, it is new to me; yes, i'm learning by doing; yes, i'm up for the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 As ply33 says, you are looking at the drain holes cast in the block to let oil return to sump from the valve gear.But I`m confused by your thread - you say a piston and rod failure occurred, but you are talking of changing gaskets and not being able to get the sump off. Has the piston issue been fixed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 not yet. i bought manifold gaskets because i found them super cheap. i'm replacing the pistons/rings/valves when i can afford the parts. i've just been trying to disassemble what i can before it gets miserably cold. broken bolts and stripped screw heads are holding me back... i only have so many tools and no welder; and limited finances to afford to hire someone.i did have an unfortunate event of driving, loud knocking, then a dead engine and oil everywhere. hole in the oil pan was the first clue. broken metal pieces coming out of it was the next clue. removed the head and found a cracked piston. can't get the oil pan off because whatever blasted the hole in it also dented it next to a bolt... can't get anything to grab on it and have been rounding it off. drain hole=relief! i suppose there's another one behind the other valve cover, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 OK sounds like a full engine strip down, particularly with stray bits of metal floating around.You might well be better off looking for another engine, not all that hard to find. Are you a member of the Plymouth owners club, there`s a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 i'll keep my eyes open for one. i'm not afraid to do the work (i do want to learn how to do it), but it may be nice to have a working one in the car while i rebuild the other. money is the big thing, and it's tight right now. and as i said in the first post, i found a 20's ford truck for cheap that wouldn't take much to ratrod (not to mention, i'd absolutely love to have it). i'd almost rather get that and work on them both slowly. we'll see what we shall see. i'm not part of the plymouth owners club yet. again, it's been a money thing and priorities. i really need a second job, but i'm physically incapable of managing it. it's funny how the government is willing to hand out welfare checks to people who refuse to work, yet will fight to the death to pay a disability check for someone who is unable to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54Illinois Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Those are drain holes. Mine has the same, except more jagged...scared me too when I saw them. Must have been busted out after the cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) i finally got the oil pan off and the cracked piston out. the rod is extremely bent/jammed, and i'm not exactly sure how to remove it right now. my question is, as far as the cylinders go, how bad is too bad? the broken piston pieces made several bad dings in the cylinder wall. i know the engine needs to come out, but would i be better off with a new straight 6 engine, or might it possibly be able to be bored into something good and useable? how much does it cost, average, to get the block bored? might i be better off putting a 318 mopar in? how much work is it to install linkages/cables/etc? would there be suspension issues if i simply replaced worn out stock for new stock? Edited December 29, 2011 by pyrodork (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54Illinois Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Are you located near me? I am parting out some stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 minneapolis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54Illinois Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Start searching now for a used motor. I found a parts car and a P25 230 motor and PowerFlite on Craigslist. The motor and trans was $195. What is the length of your engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Start searching now for a used motor. I found a parts car and a P25 230 motor and PowerFlite on Craigslist. The motor and trans was $195. What is the length of your engine?from firewall to fan is about 30 inches. i've always assumed it was a 201, but i may be wrong. here's a pic of a 37 i saw on ebay a few months ago with what looks like the exact same engine as the one i was thinking of (the guy i bought the car from was going to put it in, but i couldn't afford the car and the engine together... not even sure if he still has it). i also noticed that there's cylinder sleeves available, but it may be cheaper for me to rebuild a running engine. maybe not, since i know what i have already. the reliability of a newer engine is intriguing, but i've heard about these straight 6ers putting on lots of miles, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 from firewall to fan is about 30 inches. i've always assumed it was a 201, but i may be wrong. Measure the top of the head. The "short" block used in Plymouth and US built Dodge cars and some Dodge trucks is about 23". The "long" block used in Chryslers, DeSotos, Canadian Dodges and some Dodge trucks is about 25" long.i also noticed that there's cylinder sleeves available, but it may be cheaper for me to rebuild a running engine. maybe not, since i know what i have already. the reliability of a newer engine is intriguing, but i've heard about these straight 6ers putting on lots of miles, too.You should be able to pick up an engine that is rebuildable pretty cheap. Basically any Plymouth or US Dodge car 6 cylinder engine from 1933 through 1959 will bolt in. The design continued on in industrial use until, I think 1972, so later forklifts, aircraft tugs, etc. can also supply engines. Issue might be for Fluid Drive and a different flywheel was used with 8 bolts. Built up correctly it should be every bit as reliable as a modern engine, just as not as much power per displacement or weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobless Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I have 2 a 1933 ply and a 1934 dodge both are free turn by hand, never thought about selling them good to have for parts, they are pretty much complete.....also gen and starters for both, one has carb one doesn't, but the shipping cost might floor you,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54Illinois Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 This guy is selling a Dodge block. He is in Minnesota. If all cleaned up, might be worth the $250.eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 the head is 23 inches. there's a tin tag near the generator that says something like, "for parts specify model 219". i've kinda wanted to keep it as stock (or period) as possible, but i like a car with good pickup. not having any experience with these engines beyond the day and a half i had this one running, i'm not sure of its potential after rebuild. knobless, thanks for the offer, but i'm going to be looking locally for a block/engine. i don't even want to know what the cost to ship one would be. i'm going to be keeping my eye on that block on ebay. i'll be getting spending money in a couple weeks. not too sure how to get that bent rod out. here's some pics of what i recently found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 the head is 23 inches. there's a tin tag near the generator that says something like, "for parts specify model 219".That type of tag typically means the engine was a replacement, probably from a rebuilder. An original engine for your car should have an engine number prefixed by P4 stamped on the boss on the block above the generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54Illinois Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Looks like you need to take the crank out. Why don't you try honing the cylinder down then put a new piston in? While not the professional way, I was told by a few guys to do this to the marred 230 I had. That block has been for sale for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmiller Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 there's a tin tag near the generator that says something like, "for parts specify model 219". .Can you post a picture showing how the tag is mounted? I have a similar tag (Model 220) but it was tucked behind a plate on the firewall instead of properly mounted on the engine. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Can you post a picture showing how the tag is mounted? I have a similar tag (Model 220) but it was tucked behind a plate on the firewall instead of properly mounted on the engine. Thanks.here's my tag. i've cleaned it up some since, but i don't have any other pictures of it and my garage is a half hour away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 here's my tag. i've cleaned it up some since, but i don't have any other pictures of it and my garage is a half hour away.Interesting. It looks like the original boss just aft of the tag where the factory would stamp the number has been totally ground off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmiller Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 here's my tag. i've cleaned it up some since, but i don't have any other pictures of it and my garage is a half hour away.Thanks for the picture; very helpful. The boss on mine has stamping that looks like it was done by hand. It's a 1942 car with a block from 1949. The judging standards say the Model 220 tag is for a factory replacement engine. I think the stamping on mine may have been done at the shop that did the replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Interesting. It looks like the original boss just aft of the tag where the factory would stamp the number has been totally ground off.at least i have never noticed numbers there, but i wasn't looking too hard, either, with that tag right there.here's another opinion question... i know my odometer's incorrect. the speedo cable wasn't even hooked up when i bought the car and i noticed the odometer had been tampered with previously when i opened it up to refurbish the gauges. since i'm eventually going to do a rebuild of whatever engine i get, might i just as well reset the odometer to zero? it wasn't even set into the speedo right, so after i re-placed it, it's showing a total of 179 miles... BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 found a guy selling (not exactly positive on years) a 1946 (rebuilt... 0 miles on rebuild in 2000) and a 1948 (running when pulled) desoto engines, auto trannies, and tons of spare parts for a good price. these are both the same physical size engines. he thinks they're 236.6 CI. i took measurements to compare to the one i already have, but haven't compared yet. i also wasn't able to see the serial numbers.i'm just wondering if, theoretically, they should bolt right in just like other chrysler 33-59 engines (or if desoto had a different design)? also wondering about using my original manual transmission with the newer engine since auto trans doesn't appeal to me at all. i took some pictures and the guy said he'd take more if i needed them. also, out of curiousity, when was the crank start put out of service? the rebuilt engine has the slots to crank it, but the other one does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Don't know when they dropped the front pulley nut that supported a hand crank. Might be different years for cars than for trucks too.Plymouth used a block that was about 23" long. DeSoto and Chrysler used a block that was about 25" long. Depending on the year Plymouth getting that extra 2" of space may be easy or may be hard.Seems that the Canadian built cars all used a 25" block, so the years they made Dodge branded Plymouths for the Canadian market all you needed to do was flip the radiator support while for other years you needed to do some creative surgery. Unfortunately all that is for years newer than I have specific knowledge of so that is all third or forth hand information (i.e. probably not very accurate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pyrodork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i see. yeah, mine is about 23" and the other ones are about 25". i remember that i had a hard time getting the new belt on because the fan was right up against the radiator. is there a good way i can check to see if i can modify things to fit? the car isn't immediately accessible and it's going to be really cold for awhile, so i'm not going to see the car right away.perhaps even a new aluminum radiator that's thinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54Illinois Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Keep looking...sooner than later something is going to pop up that will be exactly what you need. Too cold to do anything anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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