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62 Old F85 Hydramatic Issues


MontanaKeller
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I rebuilt the 215 in my Olds. The engine runs and looks great. However, I am now having transmission issues. I have adjusted the TV linkage to specs from the service manual. When the car shifts from 1st to 2nd, it seem as if the transmission looses pressure and disengages. If I stop, the car will act if it was in neutral. I have to wait a minute, restart the car, and then the car will go in first gear or reverse. The fluid levels are correct. What do you think?

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Kind of sounds like a valve body-related issue. Perhaps a check ball's seat is not good, or something, that'll let that circuit lose some pressure? Possibly a warpage issue of one of the two valve body halves, for which the gasket is not compensating?

When you adjusted the linkage, was there a particular reason you readjusted it . . . or changed it from the earlier "adjusted" configuration? But I don't believe this issue is from a mis-adjusted TV linkage, from the way it sounds. In many cases, a TV linkage out of adjustment will affect the shift points ONLY (and possibly line pressure due to greater throttle opennings), not whether or not the trans hits a particular gear when it shifts or the gear selector lever is moved.

Many years ago, a friend was in the process of building a '67 Camaro RS/SS. He had a THM400 built for it, then sat it on the garage floor until he needed it. When he put it in, it hit the gears (engagement). As it had a 4.88 rear axle ratio, it would move under it's own power, too. On the way to the muffler shop, he discovered that in "D", it'd do low gear, but when it upshifted to "2", it would lock-up (as valve body leakage was allowing "2" and "R" to apply at the same time . . . "1" and "D" Low worked, as did "R", though. A new (different) valve body, from the same trans shop, fixed it.

I suspect you'll need to remove the valve body and then check the mating surfaces with a straiaght-edge, then make sure all of the ball checks are in the correct place and have good seats to seal against.

You might also check the shuttle valves for free movement and/or wear spots while you're in there, for good measure.

Just some thoughts and gut suspicions, although they might not be what you're wanting to hear, with all due respect.

Keep us posted on what you find, please.

Take care,

NTX5467

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
any updates on this? who did the rebuild on the transmission. i just got a 62 Jetfire and having some issues. how much was it to get the seals replaced?

i am new here, sorry for all the questions.

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your Jetfire. The seals can be purchased from Fastco for $150. The guy charged $75 for labor. I would recommend that you pick up the 1961 and 62 service manuals. These can be obtained through Faxon automotive. What issues are you having?

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real similar to what you described yours was doing. when it shifts out of first it is like neutral. if you accelerate harder in first and let off the throttle when it shifts it will go to third and skip second. i have all the CSMs for the car. the 61, 62 and Jetfire supplement. they sure help. i plan to try to adjust the TV rod tonight and see if that helps. only problem i have is not having the tool (or measurement) for the lever at the transmission.

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real similar to what you described yours was doing. when it shifts out of first it is like neutral. if you accelerate harder in first and let off the throttle when it shifts it will go to third and skip second. i have all the CSMs for the car. the 61, 62 and Jetfire supplement. they sure help. i plan to try to adjust the TV rod tonight and see if that helps. only problem i have is not having the tool (or measurement) for the lever at the transmission.

Bill Sawrey has many of the old BT dealer tools. Here is his email address:

toolzguy@bellsouth.net

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  • 3 weeks later...

***Update*** I took the car to a tranny shop. I specifically ask them if they were familiar with Model 5 Hyrda-matic out of a 62 Olds F85. They said "yes" so I had it transported to their shop. They dropped the pan and found bits of clutch material. Now the are telling me that that would prefer not to rebuild it. The ROTO Hydra-matic is a different "beast". I am at a lose of what to do.

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i have been doing some checking and found out about a guy in MI. Point Automatic transmission, John is the guys name. 586 776 7300. he told me by phone that these are light enough that UPS will ship them and he charges $500 plus parts. i have no idea what parts cost. he specializes in vintage transmissions. i liked what i heard but have no experience with them. if you can pull it and ship it i would call them and see what they recommend.

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The clutch material sounds about right. It sounds like one of the clutches that engages in 2nd gear is completely shot. I would really check out these so-called transmission dudes. Some of them take your money and run. $500 is very low in price, I would be suspicious. On the other hand $2900 is way too much. If I were going to rebuild the thing I would charge about $750 plus parts, which is about $1000. Good Luck

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The clutch material sounds about right. It sounds like one of the clutches that engages in 2nd gear is completely shot. I would really check out these so-called transmission dudes. Some of them take your money and run. $500 is very low in price, I would be suspicious. On the other hand $2900 is way too much. If I were going to rebuild the thing I would charge about $750 plus parts, which is about $1000. Good Luck

___________________________________________________________________

Roto and 315 Controlled coupling HydraMatic's ( Olds-Jetaway, Pontiac- Strato Flight or Super Hydramatic, Cadillac P315 Hydramatic ), both use a combination of a conventional clutch and Sprag Clutches ( or one way clutch ). These sprag clutches took the place of some of the old friction clutches. Roto has a conventional clutch, a sprag clutch and a new type of sprag clutch--a roller clutch. If either of these two let go it spells big trouble. All automatic's with a conventional type clutch will have some friction material in the bottom of the pan after operation...this is normal.

MontanaKeller did not state what type of clutch material was in the pan. If it's just some friction material, that might be normal, if it's a whole bunch of frictional material-the clutch pack needs to be rebuilt with new friction plates. If it's bits and pieces of a sprag clutch it needs to be replaced.

When Roto shifts into 2nd gear the fluid coupling drains and applies the front clutch, the reverse cone is released, the neutral clutch is applied the rear sprag becomes effective, and the overrun band is released.

Roto is simpler than it's predecessor ( controlled coupling or dual coupling hydramatic ) but is complex in theory and operation, and does require special tools to work on. Like the two transmissions before it Roto is sensitive to adjustment. You need to be set up properly to do any of the three basic types of hydramatic.

D.

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  • 2 months later...
___________________________________________________________________

Roto and 315 Controlled coupling HydraMatic's ( Olds-Jetaway, Pontiac- Strato Flight or Super Hydramatic, Cadillac P315 Hydramatic ), both use a combination of a conventional clutch and Sprag Clutches ( or one way clutch ). These sprag clutches took the place of some of the old friction clutches. Roto has a conventional clutch, a sprag clutch and a new type of sprag clutch--a roller clutch. If either of these two let go it spells big trouble. All automatic's with a conventional type clutch will have some friction material in the bottom of the pan after operation...this is normal.

MontanaKeller did not state what type of clutch material was in the pan. If it's just some friction material, that might be normal, if it's a whole bunch of frictional material-the clutch pack needs to be rebuilt with new friction plates. If it's bits and pieces of a sprag clutch it needs to be replaced.

When Roto shifts into 2nd gear the fluid coupling drains and applies the front clutch, the reverse cone is released, the neutral clutch is applied the rear sprag becomes effective, and the overrun band is released.

Roto is simpler than it's predecessor ( controlled coupling or dual coupling hydramatic ) but is complex in theory and operation, and does require special tools to work on. Like the two transmissions before it Roto is sensitive to adjustment. You need to be set up properly to do any of the three basic types of hydramatic.

D.

Thanks for the info helfin! It was the sprag clutch. I had the transmission rebuilt and it is running great. So it is on to the next project.....

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