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De Soto Frank

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Sorry if my anti-SUV rant came across a little too harshly.<P>I meant only the big huge things like the expedition, escalade, yukon, etc. Personally, I've never been accosted by a Blazer, Ranger, Jimmy, or the like. The more truck-like pre-SUVs I can deal with.<P>Another thing that annoys me:<BR>PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE<BR>I can realise the companies are trying to make some cash, but designing products to fail? That's not right. This may not be true, but from what I've seen, all those Japanese 10yr/100k-mile warrantees are actually more like death certificates.<P> confused.gif" border="0

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Boy Housewife- You're a piece of work.<BR>Where do the blacks and the Jews fit into your superior world?

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One thing I left off of my rant against "You're-A-Peon" drivers: Nothing offends them more than an antique license plate in front of them in traffic.<P>L.I. How long do you want live? shocked.gif" border="0

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Just got back from my first SUV drive, in a Jeep Cherokee. Three hours round trip to Kennedy Airport. Nice ride, 75MPH most of the time, plenty of room for a six footer. Wouldn't mind having one.

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LI:<P>You have regular plates on your "Brass Babes"? I don't know if we could do that in PA. Acetylene headlights, 2-wheel brakes & all? Seat belts?<P>Wow.<P>My regular mechanic gives me grief every year when I bring my '41 De Soto in for inspection: "When are you going to put a historic tag on this thing?!"<BR>(Actually, for the amount I drive it these days, the historic tag limitations probably wouldn't be an issue.)<P>My only qualm about defending my "right of road" with my antiques is the thought in the back of my head: "where am I going to get the parts to fix this jalopy if this bozo actually hits me?".(OK, maybe I'm just chicken!)<P>Wasn't so much of an issue when I had my slightly abused 19 year-old (1977) Cadillac Sedan de Barge; I'd challenge anyone to take away my "right of way" then.<BR> grin.gif" border="0 <P>Ah well, we're all suppposed to "play nice", right? tongue.gif" border="0

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Yeah, I see your point but here's how I look at it, sure, they will wear out faster than a modern car, but I can do everything myself with the exception of some machine work and there are plenty of machine shops around, I keep them well maintained regularly and in good adjustment which cuts down on wear, I thoroughly enjoy driving them not on a daily basis but frequently enough in good weather and bad. Also perhaps because the older guys who influenced me were first-generation collector-drivers who thought nothing of hopping in and driving 300 miles in a day, they didn't "restore"cars, they "fixed them up" which simply meant putting it in good mechanical shape with a decent interior and a nice coat of paint. I hop both sides of the fence and can appreciate a good 100 point car as much as anyone but to these old guys the real test was not how much the resto cost but how much have you driven the car.

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My daily driver is a 1989 Merc Colony Park wagon. It averages 20mpg. One day I was at Home Depot sliding 4x8 sheets of sheetrock into the cargo area when I noticed a guy with a Chevy carryall (thats what we used to call those truckwagons) tieing similar 4x8s on the roof. I was puzzled but I thought maybe he had to take his seats out while mine folded down. Also to put another thing into perspective my wife's 2001 grand Marquis averages 23mpg and we have gotten as much as 26mpg on a trip. Al

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Had my first experience with a "You're-a-Peon" driver this afternoon returning from swap meet in Raleigh NC. I-40 westbound, we're in the 1976 Ninety Eight (with antique tags!) tooling along with traffic in the center lane, about 75 in a 65 zone, when here it comes- BMW 740iL with lights flashing, passed us on the right and left us like we're sitting still...<P>I was glad to get back to the hinterlands, away from all that civilisation. Wouldn't live there for it, fighting that I-40 traffic every day.

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But my cars don't have antique plates,just reg'lar pass.car tags, so there.

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Been out of town for the past 10 days so I am a bit late getting into this thread.<P>Anyway, last year I bought a Yukon XL with the 8.1 L engine [about 500 CI]. 13 MPG highway and 10 MPG highway pulling a loaded trailer.<P>I frequently pull a 4250# trailer containing a 4400# car as much as 2000 miles one way to a tour. Now what would you anti SUV characters have me use for a tow vehicle, a Ford escort. When you need power and comfort for thousands of miles of trailer hauling it is either this or a one ton truck, and nobody can tell me that the truck has the comfort or interior room of a Yukon XL.<P>Another thing most people overlook is the safety factor of a LONG wheelbase tow vehicle. So please get off your soap boxes and cut a little slack for those of us who need and sensibly use a big, heavy, powerful SUV. Which by the way, I NEVER drive in the city, even the cities in sparcely populated Wyoming.<P>hvs<P>PS: This Yukon replaced a 7 year old 2500 series Suburban with a 454 CI engine [about 8-9 MPG hauling a trailer.] That vehicle had 125,000 miles on it of which about 110,000 was logged pulling a loaded trailer.<BR>When you average about 15-20,000 miles annually pulling a loaded car trailer, you gain some level of understanding about trailering and what makes it safe, comfortable and pleasant.<P>There IS a place on the road for these vehicles, like em or not.<p>[ 03-10-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]

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Howard,<P>There's a place on the road for Kenworth's, too. Nobody argues against using the right tool for the right job. <P>But those if us who live where 15 to 20K miles/yr. is much more often translated into trips to the KK and the mall (or a comfortably short commute of 45 min./day) ssee <I>way</I> too many people using your tool for their penis envy. <P>Statistically less than 8% os all SUV's are <I>ever</I> driven off road. It'd be interesting to see what percentage of their use is accomplished while towing as well. My experience would indicate that you are a member of an <I>extreme</I> minority.<P>My rant against BMW drivers (et al.) doesn't mean they're no good either. I'd take a BMW over any car on the road right now myself. <P>These little ventings are against bad driver types. I had a minivan driver force a '66 Skylark convertible (that I was caravanning with) off the road on I-70 three years ago. My Dad drove the same vehicle, down to the color combination. He's an excellent driver.<P>I'm sure you are, too. smile.gif" border="0<p>[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

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My daily driver is a '99 F-150. It gets about 20 mpg. I don't care what anyone thinks about its fuel economy or its emissions. I don't haul something every day, but I can haul something any time I want. The fact is, this is still America and I can drive what I want. Others can drive what they want. You don't like it, LEAVE!<P>Now, my beef is with the way folks drive. I agree with whoever it was above that said that it's drivers in all kinds of cars that drive bad, just the SUV gets remembered. I spent about 3 hours on I-95 yesterday doing approximately 8 miles over the posted speed limit. This is the speed I normally drive. My theory is that this is about as fast as I can drive and not have to slam on brakes every time I see a cop. So, at 78 mph, the safe driving distance between me and the guy in front is 7.8 car lengths, right? Just try it. I promise you that 5 cars will easily fit between you. There were 100's of motorcylces coming back from Daytona. I couldn't believe how close people would follow them or how close they would change lanes in front of them. <P>It's not just on the interstates either. I guess I just don't like being crowded. I can't stand anyone tailgating me and I can't stand people changing lanes in front of me when I already am not driving a safe distance from the guy in front. Where does he think I'm gonna go when the guy in front of him slams on brakes for that dog, deer, child, or other @$$#%!& that cuts him off?

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Dave ~ You are quite correct of course, but having been out of town and off of the forum for 10 days I needed to jump back in, and since nobody had anything good to say about SUVs I thought I should stir the pot.<P>However, I do believe that minivans and their drivers are a greater menace on the roads than LARGE SUVs. mad.gif" border="0 With SUVs it's the yuppies in the smaller SUVs that seem to be the problem, and yes, they never go off road or engage the 4 wheel drive. <P>You can't compare Kenworths and SUVs because the big rigs are a fact of commerce and not being driven because the Jonses next door have one. And Janie and her mom certinly cannot be seen in a lesser vehicle than Mary and her mom. rolleyes.gif" border="0<P> smile.gif" border="0 hvs smile.gif" border="0

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Bingo Howard, I've got nothing against someone using a vehicle for what it was intended to do, not as a fashion accessory to make grocery runs in.

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LI ~ Out here, even grocery runs sometimes require a 4x4. Conditions on snow packed parking lots are sometimes equal to eastern off road conditions grin.gif" border="0 <P>What is really fun to watch is the southward sloping parking lot at WalMart when it is covered with ice, the wind is 45 MPH out of the north, and the cars all blow down the slope and stack up tightly side by side at the bottom. shocked.gif" border="0 They must be removed one at a time starting with the northernmost vehicle.<P>Things are a bit different out here. ~ hvs

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With all due respect, Howard, you cannot accurately assess the average SUV driver. You are an SUV driver yourself. As such, you count to other SUV drivers, good or bad.<P>If you re-read the rants above the problem with SUV drivers is that those of us with Saturns, Hyundais and TR3's are often too small on their radar screen to matter. Nobody nonchalantly cuts off a Yukon, no matter what their driving. But there have been <B>many</B> times when I was getting a very close look at the belt moulding of a passing SUV who's driver didn't know or care if I was anywhere nearby. When I'm driving my Ranger I find this happens <I>a lot</I> less.<P>I'd be willing to bet that every one of these oblivious clowns think they're "safer" driving like this in one of these battleships. rolleyes.gif" border="0 (In an urban environment, these things are <I>nothing</I> but battleships!) The amusing part is that if half of them took the time to add up what this thing <I>really</I> costs to use as a daily driver, you can bet that that half would be off the road in a week! <P>But then what would Exxon and the Bin Laden family do to entertain themselves? tongue.gif" border="0wink.gif" border="0

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Can't help but wonder what the selfanointed thinks of daily workers driving pickups and vans. You are more than welcome to drive your TR3 into the drivers side of my E-350, if I can wack the drivers side of the TR3 when your through, guess who will be safer? Got seatbelts in that thing? You'll need them.

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Dave ~ In this case you are incorrect about my lack of ability to assess SUV drivers because I drive an SUV myself. I also own and drive a '97 Cadillac Seville, which you will notice if you ever drive one, is about as low to the ground as you can get. You can nearly look up at the underside of the runningboards on a large SUV. However, I do not feel the need to it make it a habit of snuggling up to SUVs or semis. Since I know I am low and they are high, I make it my responsibility to stay out of their way. That doesn't take too much effort on my part.<P>I feel that everyone has the right to drive whatever legal vehicle they want to drive if they can afford to buy it, fuel it and maintain it. I also realize there are those out there who feel it is their God given right and duty to tell the rest of us what to do, how to do it and to make laws forcing us to do their bidding. mad.gif" border="0 <P>Well, I've paid my dues and I have as much right to my completely legal way of life as you do gooders have to yours.<P>And by the way, my everyday driver is a GMC Sonoma 4x4 P/U. That makes me half way politically correct. Its little. ~ hvs<p>[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]

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1937,<P>--Thanks for making Chuck's, L.I.'s, Skyking's, Laserbeams', and my point for us.<P>Howard,<P>Once again, you and I are talking about differences that are more a matter of perspective than substance. In WY or suburban MD staying clear of large vehicles is not only common sense, but practical. <P>In an urban setting, such as the scores of four lane roads in Pittsburgh with dense rush hour traffic backed up at every intersection, staying clear of one SUV means running into the one on the other side. In many cities a four lane road can mean less than 40' total width and 12" curbs at the edge, ususally with traffic doing 45 mph when it does move. <P>Nobody's telling anybody what to drive. We're only commenting on some poor driving habits that appear to be endemic to certain vehicle types. If it seems to rub a little to close to sensitive areas for some people, so be it.<P>And if it makes somebody stop and think longer about the implications of their vehicular choices for assorted activities, all the better. smile.gif" border="0<P>Sometimes telling the other guy to buzz off is giving him exactly what he wants! smile.gif" border="0

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I wonder if there is any correlation between car type owners and the dogs they own? I have two Labs, and have no problem meeting larger dogs owned by straingers. The ankle bitters that never shut up I avoid at all costs. The driver with a lapdog sitting the drivers lap looking out the drivers side window, should be legal target practice.<P>[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: 1937hd45 ]<p>[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: 1937hd45 ]

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So,<P>I'm wondering how the average Bantam owner felt in the '30's...<P>I really get a bit of a kick out of the "waify soccer-moms" in their Lincoln Navigators who, ten years ago, wouldn't have driven "their father's Oldsmobile", because "it's too big..." ! wink.gif" border="0 <P>One thing's pretty clear to me: it doesn't matter what make and size of the "projectile": bad drivers are a menace!<BR>Tailgaters, speeders, "mergers with-out yeilds", etc.<BR>The "flash & pass" Niebelungen-types are irritating too- I secretly wish that the semi that they're passing "on the right" suddenly decides to "move over".<P>Yes, this is America, where we have the "right" and the "freedom" to pretty much do as we please; yet, I sometimes feel that responsibilty and common-sense have become archaic concepts, and that "privileges" such as driver's licenses have become construed as "inalienable rights".<P>Sadly, it's usually the nice quiet guy in the '33 Plymouth who gets the short end of the stick when it comes to traffic incidents rather than the knucklehead barreling down the Interstate at 110.<P>I guess we'll always have plenty of "nominees" for the Darwin Society Awards!

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This morning there was a late teens to early twenties age female following me in a small japanese import while on my way to work. This girl was either driving with her knee or just depending on the quality of her last front end alignment, because she was fixing her hair with both hands. This lasted for at least a quarter mile. When I turned off, she was still at it. I hope she and everyone else around her, got where they were going.

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The young female driver may well the greatest menace on the roads today. This is borne out by insurance company statistics and records from medical trauma centers. They are now considered to be as bad risks as teenage boys. ~ hvs

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