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Judging question, whitewalls and blackwalls on same car


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I understand (I missed the show, had to leave Friday) that there was a judged car on the show field Saturday, Dodge I believe, that had white wall tires on one side of the car and black wall tires on the other side.

Is this a point deduction, or is mix and not match acceptable from a judging or points score standpoint?

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I would think so too, but curious as to what the rules say....is there a specific "tires must match" deduction"

And yes, I know, if I participated in AACA judging, I'd know. I used to participate in CCCA judging, which had points for mechanical condition, operational use (gauges work, engine starts promptly, horns work and so forth), so am not a big fan of the AACA cosmetic judging criteria.

I just can't keep my mouth shut, can I???

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I am making an assumption that we are talking about a post war car. If the car is after 1915,the specific comments about matching tires do not cover this issue. They are:

"Prior to 1915, tires must be matched in pairs (front and rear), but spares need not

match anything on the vehicle except each other. (If there’s more than one size spare,

they will naturally differ.)"

To play devil's advocate, I could argue that they would be accepted without penalty due to the following...

"The following items are accepted for judging without penalty under the “Grandfather

Clause”, due to their initial acceptance in the beginning of the judging program."

Remember that the book is the "Judging Guidelines", not the all inclusive last word on everything about judging.... I would think that a modest deduction would be warranted. That is what I would do.

Perhaps some minor update of the Judging Guidelines is in order to specifically address this. Perhaps it does not matter. We can't update the book to cover every single issue... common sense has to still be used on the field.

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Yes but.....the Judging Manual also says "tires must be as specfied by the manufacturer". I doubt any manufacturer specified whites on one side and blacks on the other. I would ask the owner for documentation. By the owner's reasoning it would also be ok to paint one side of the car in one color and the other in another color. This does not compute.

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Years ago we showed a 1910 vehicle. As unlikely as this sounds thru the complete restoration we never noticed that the one front wood wheel had one more spoke than the other 3. We took it thru judging to the Grand National level and no one ever noticed that extra spoke. It's still on the car.

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Funny---my Hupmobile had one odd wheel, I never noticed it in 30 years of owning the car, three wheels were Hupp and one was Model T.

When I took the wheels to Bill Calimer to be respoked, he took one look and saw the mismatch, and asked if that's the way I wanted to keep them....of course not....

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Actually I saw the car, it's owned by someone that sold me one of my cars. He was pretty laid back about the ww/bw question and was taking a poll as to what looked better. The ww side was leading by about 60 vs 40%. I voted for the whites..............Bob

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I think whites on one side and blacks on the other is kind of fun with tires.

It takes an observant person to detect it without being tipped off ahead of time. And yes i think it's fair to take off points, but still fun to catch.

When I was Great Racing for Ted Holden, he built a double ended car from two Dodge Colt FWD cars. (2 engines, 2 transmissions and would go either way)

I used it in the intermissions at the St. Petersburg Grand Prix and had a ball

entertaining the fans all around the track, either direction or sideways. All the windows where dark tint so both drivers were invisible. One end had whitewalls and the other blackwalls, nobody knew who was driving which end. Since I love whitewalls, I switched the two whites to my side and told folks I drove the prettiest side. (TV interviews were a riot!)

The key to driving was one rule: If going backward, keep the clutch in. The brakes had one system with a slave cylinder to activate both from either end.

Probably the best the Colt ever! (And my side was better)

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Hey it would please both sides the Black Wall likers and the white wall likers :)

Really why deduct if black or whites are correct?

Maybe the guys budget was tight so he could only buy two whites at a time?????

What if one had dual side mounts or even the rear mounted spare would they have the match?

Edited by Packin31 (see edit history)
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On pre 1915 cars front and rear tires only need to match each other since size sometimes differed front to rear. All later years tires need to match unless one can document that the car came from the factory with mismatched tires. They also need to be the size specified by the manufacturer. Specific brand does not matter.

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It would never come from the factory that way! :)

Sorry Wayne, but if a truck can come from the factory with GM emblems on the front and Chevy emblems on the rear then it wouldn't be out of the realm of possiblities that a vehicle could come out with mismatched bw/ww tires on different sides. Especially if it was put together on a Monday or a Friday.....or so I have heard. :rolleyes:

Bill and I saw the very truck I am speaking about in a local dealership. I wished I had had the money at the time to buy it and show it in twenty-five years. :rolleyes::D I can just see the Team Captain asking for documentation on that mess. :P

But then when we asked about it they were not going to sell it they were going to ship it back to be corrected at the factory. Drat!!!! We could have had some fun showing that truck. :cool:

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Uncle bought a new car. First time it rained he discovered that the windshield wipers were simply laying in the recess under the windshield and had never actually been installed. I bought a new Ford pick-em-up that had oversized rear axle hubs making the wheels a press fit on the axles. It was almost impossible to remove the rear wheels. Took the dealership 3 hours using a sledge hammer and a torch to remove them.

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Sorry Wayne, but if a truck can come from the factory with GM emblems on the front and Chevy emblems on the rear then it wouldn't be out of the realm of possiblities that a vehicle could come out with mismatched bw/ww tires on different sides. Especially if it was put together on a Monday or a Friday.....or so I have heard. :rolleyes:

Yes, I have heard of some of those "flaws" in production, had a new truck a few years ago with no left side motor mounts. Was a lot of fun trying to get a load moving with the motor moving "up" on the left side. Those are things you can not see.

Notwithstanding the pick up emblems though, something as visible and easy to correct as mismatched tires would in all likelihood be changed before it left the dealer. I can not imagine anyone buying a new vehicle not wanting a mismatch like tires corrected.

I guess we'd be back to the show "me the documentation".

Wayne

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I agree that hopefully someone would have corrected the mismatched tires at the dealership before it left the dealership.

I bet that was interesting with your new truck. And I take it to mean that it was one of your "tractor" type trucks not a pick-up truck, right?

We had a motor mount break on the Ford Taurus stationwagon we had for several years. Seeing the engine "torque" when we would start it up and put it into gear was interesting. I can well imagine what no motor mounts on one side of a large truck would do. :eek:

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