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carlbraun

1965 Riviera GS exhaust vs. Standard Riv

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This is a continuation of a thread that was started where we were discussing the differences in the standard Riv exhaust vs the Riviera GS exhaust. I posted a photo of the system that Waldron exhaust shows as their offering.

When I ordered the exhaust I was clear with my request for a correct 65 Riviera GS exhaust system. Ruth at Waldron returned my call explaining that not only is the pipe diameter different but the GS cars had a different (less restrictive) bend pattern according to their records. See for yourselves...the first photo shows the standard 65 Riviera exhaust and the second one shows a correct GS exhaust...note the lack of extra bends in the headpipes.

The workmanship of the exhaust is better than expected and I hope it fits as well as it looks.

Here is the standard 65 Riviera exhaust

ExhaustsystemfromWaldrons.jpg

Here is the Riviera GS exhaust

HPIM3142.jpg

another shot

HPIM3147.jpg

HPIM3144.jpg

Edited by carlbraun (see edit history)

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i wish I could help, but I'm just writing to say thanks for the awesome pics.

I'll need to do something with my exhaust at some point - at least getting a new muffler to start with.

looking forward to any further info on this. it looks like good workmanship, as you say...

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OK Riviera People: I will say this again on two counts......

1. First-gen Rivs have (when working properly) excellent brakes and the need to make changes in my opinion is really not necessary.

2. Again, in my opinion, the factory exhaust configuration on first-gen Rivs is excellent and again (while working properly) does not need modification. The Buick engineers knew what they were doing in this department.

Carl's picture shows the simplicity of this system and besides that they are a bolt on item. In other words, everything working properly, there really isn't any need to use a torch and weld components together. I personally would rather pay a muffler shop to correctly install this system with correct hardware than do it myself, although I have done it several times in the past successfully. Mitch

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Thanks for the pics. Really great post. I've been trying to find good photos comparing the two systems.

Again thanks, and keep up posted as to how it fits once the installation is complete.

Rob.

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When the first gen cars were just well worn used cars their exhaust system was most often in need of work...and for good reason. The exhaust system design is terrible and continually expensive to maintain.

There was no room under the floorboards so the Buick engineers combined the muffler and crossover functions into the water heater muffler behind the rear axle...huge mistake! As the exhaust makes its way back thru the system it cools and when the exhaust cools it can no longer hold the water which is a by-product of combustion. The end result is the muffler becomes a collection point for condensation/water and deteriorates quickly.

When I was a kid and buying first gen cars for drivers it was very common to find an owner who did not want to invest in new exhaust yet again and was motivated to dump the old Buick. Install a couple of glass packs or turbo mufflers where the resonators are and dump the exhaust thru a short pipe ahead of the rear tires and good to go! A little rumbly but this really seemed to wake up the Nailhead!

The engineers changed the system in `66 and used long, flat mufflers under the floorboards which helped the mufflers last for an acceptable period of time because they were farther forward in the system.

Now stainless exhaust is available so the design flaws can be a mute point if one is open to spending the $$$ but back in the day the exhaust system on the first gen Rivs was a real achilles heel,

Tom Mooney

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Tom-

What do you know about the different bend patterns quoted by the exhaust supplier in the original posting?

True?

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everyone

this exhaust system was $580 plus $110 to ship from Michigan to So Cal. I hope to get the system hung and buttoned up for another $200.

In the mean time I am searching for any of the original exhaust hangers for the Riv. Does anyone on the list have an original set of hangers? If so, Waldron said they would copy them for and reproduce them for anyone else needing them in the future. Let me know if you can help.

Thanks

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Hi Jim,

Wondering what the original thread was??? I recall posting the info Waldrens conveyed to Carl recently but who knows? Been thru this subject 100 times over the years...the supplier is correct. The Gran Sport pipes hug the frame front to rear as opposed to the stock system which wiggles in and out; a much straighter path in the Gran Sport. The wiggles in the stock system are there to discourage resonance- I`m sure I posted this recently but cant remember the title of the thread?? Also, as the supplier has informed Carl, the GS system had 2 and 1/4 header pipes and 2 inch tails. This makes the resonators and muffler different in the Gran Sport models also. There was/is much substance in the GS package, not just a set of emblems like some think!

Tom Mooney

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OK Riviera People: I'm going to make my point in a round about way. In 1974 I briefly owned a 65 Riv GS. It was a 19,000 beautiful original that was taken in trade by a Buick dealer and wholesaled to a pot lot (a lot that sells horrible cars). Because I had a 63 Riv at the time that I built the idea seemed right in line with my warped thinking of having another Riv....this the ultimate Riviera, a 65 Riviera GS.

It didn't look like 19K when I got it but after I detailed it it was quite obvious that the mileage was correct. I drove this car around until I flipped it (stupid me, like there weren't a million other cars around to flip). It was quiet, tight and really drove smoothly even on the original 3 ring bias ply tires. I was really thrilled to have owned that car and do remember it fairly well.

OK, to the point. That was a rare car that was in excellent condition and performed beautifully. I couldn't tell in a million years if the GS exhaust was better than the stock. In the first place the only other Rivieras I had owned were tired 63's with stock exhaust so I couldn't tell much there. The only thing I can say is, that 65 GS was a very tight and smooth and the car ran great. I couldn't compare it with anything exactly like it and I don't think even then it could have been possible to do.

I have had several first-gen Rivs over the years and frankly I couldn't tell the difference between a 401 and a GS by driving it although my ego could. So.......how in the world could somebody really tell the difference between a standard or a GS exhaust even though there is a small difference in design? Mitch

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Mitch, That sounds like the conversations I have with a friend over coffee. I keep telling him I rarely take any of my cars over 3,000 RPM. If the exhaust was designed for 5500 RPM I must not push the pressure drop to the limit.

My friend's son is real big on 0-60 times. He is 28 and I am 63. What is he going to do with all the seconds he saves? They are not transferable. Tight and smooth does it for me. When I have pistons the size of oil cans, just a little nudge of the gas gives me the seat of the pants feel I want.

Bernie

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"I couldn't tell the difference between a 401 and a GS by driving it although my ego could."

"When I have pistons the size of oil cans, just a little nudge of the gas gives me the seat of the pants feel I want."

two classic statements...

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Cant feel the difference when comparing a standard Riv, 401 equipped with a 3:07 axle and a GS model with 425, dual 4 bbl carbs and a 3:42 axle?? Hmmm...my experience has been completely opposite. Save all the GS cars for me! :D:D:D:D

Tom

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When I was 17, in 1966, I had a black 1960 Buick Invicta. They had jusy opened the first Caroll's hamburger drive in about 20 miles away. Four of us went there it check the place out. Why am I reminded of that trip today...... and how my cousin rode back soaked with milk shake?

Bernie

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Hey Kevin,

I see that this is your first post to the AACA forums. Welcome. What master cylinder/ booster combo are you using and is your disk brake conversion a kit?

Thanks,

Ed

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Hi Ed,

This was a kit of sorts off e-bay, the hard parts are all off the shelf with some nice laser cut brackets, I still have the paperwork and will post the actual year model ect. of each specific item.

I haven't seen the kit on e-bay in awhile

Kevin

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I have a Scarebird bracket set and all of the other hardware - calipers & pads, rotors, master cylinder and booster - I was just curious as to what you used; hoping when I'm finished with mine it will look as good as yours.

Ed

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Mind PMing me more pictures of the air ride setup? I'm considering air ride for my project '64.

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Here are some air ride pics, Nice system

There is a bit of inner frame trimming and I reinforced the inner frame and cleaned up the lower control arms while I had it all apart

Kevin

post-81775-143138774021_thumb.jpg

post-81775-143138774039_thumb.jpg

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Great pictures of the exhaust Carl! How is the system holding up for you?

This is what I need for my Gran Sport, looks like good quality stuff!

thanks for the pictures

Rob

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Rob

the exhaust will be installed soon. i have concentrated on restoring the car with my latest efforts being directed toward the boday and paint removal. The shop that does some of my work will be installing the system within the next week or two.

I have had some discussions with others that claim there is no easy install with these systems and a person needs to be ready to do some mods...I may wait til the body and paint is done and take it to my local exhaust shop here in Fallbrook. Sonny's hung a new exhaust system for my Jeep Wagoneer and did a great job...they also gave me some grief about buying a pre-bent system. I bought the system from Waldrons as it was the most accurate system vs the stock Gran Sport layout...I wanted it correct and not somones rendition of what a factory GS system should be.

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Thanks for the info, I like how original it looks as well. Im going to look at my shop manual when I get to work today and see if shows the hanger layout. The hangers are my next concern. I may call Waldron's and ask about hangers as well. Ill post some picks of my exhaust. Some years ago I had my muffler shop put a dual exhaust set up on it, but I want to go with a more original set up this time.

thanks

rls

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Rob

I asked about hangers as well when I was speaking with Waldron's. They daid they did not make them but could if someone supplied an original set that coupld be copied.

I have the original hangers that connect near the resonators but thats all. The GM manual shows other hangers but I would have to have them made or get a set from another vehicle to make them work,

Has anyone had any of these hangers made or find a good source for them? Let us know

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