DAVES89 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Just got back from my local U-Pick. Among other things I picked up two ABS brakes sensor leads. They are from the front of a Cadillac but are the rears on a Reatta. [i kept looking at them thinking what is wrong with these leads, but took them anyhow. It was only after I left the place that I realized that what I had was rear leads]. Anyhow, I tested them on my Digital Volt Meter [DVM] and they are good. The rubber is perfect, it is just that the silver protective cover is still in the hub [rusted in]. If anyone wants them please PM me. I only want $6.00 for them both to cover freight. As a side note, I don't believe the rear Reatta leads will be discontinued because as I stated before if the ABS lead on Caddy's and Old's are the Reattas rear leads, that leaves a pretty good market I would guess. Only my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Dave - PM'ed you. Also, what year/model of Caddy? I also per Pep Boy counter fellow I understand that the BWD ABS600 (and assume any other available brands) were used on the '88/'90 Olds Toronado, and Toronado Trofeo. The Trofeol had the disappearing headlight with an arrangement different that the Reatta. Sure would like to see some pictures if it ever become convenient for someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Kingsley got your PM the leads are yours. I took these off a '89 Sedan de Ville. I think the '88-91 work as well. There are more models but I don't really look at them. Same with the Olds. What I do is walk along the row looking at the hubs as the wheels are off. If I see an ABS lead, I grab it. BTW they crushed my two "banks." The Reattas are gone. There were still some parts I was going to grab [at what was to be my leisure, but too late]. So now all I have are Rivs. But as we all know there will be more coming in... at least they always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 ABS1466 is rear Reatta but front om Pontiac, and Cad. ABS600 is front Reatta, Riviera, and Olds but only shows up for '90s even though used since 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltanb Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 A little off topic but it does share the same sensors as my reatta, here are a few pics of my trofeo 89. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Nice! An '89 Trofeo with the VIC is definitely on my "bucket list". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Kingsley got your PM the leads are yours. I took these off a '89 Sedan de Ville. I think the '88-91 work as well. There are more models but I don't really look at them. Same with the Olds. What I do is walk along the row looking at the hubs a...Try looking at "E-body" Caddies (Seville, Eldorado). Same year E-bodies used the same Teves ABS system.If the only difference between the front and rear sensors is the clocking of the mounting tab, maybe some sort of an adapter could be made? I can envision one way of doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 On the front sensor there is also a grommet. If we are vigilant we should be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my82roc Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Man I tried pulling one of these sensors today from an 89 Reatta.Took off the torx bolt but had no luck getting the sensor out.I was able to spin it around but it wouldnt come out.Tried to pry it out and snapped off the part where the torx bolt goes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 After I remove the torx bolt I do the following. When I see that they are rusted in I don't turn them side to side, I rock them side to side. Seals lose their grip and out pops the sensor end minus the aluminum protective barrel. This is truly Ok because if you live in the rust bolt as I do, when you try to remove your sensor lead from your car you will pop out the sensor lead minus the alluminum protective barrel. You just put a little gasket sealer to keep out the elemnts and slide it back in and hold everything with the torx bolt. BTW I just got that shipment of 5 [3 front 2 rear] leads from the salvage yard. They are perfect in appearance and test out at 1090 ohms using the DVM. Less then $30.00 each delivered. It's worth a try to call yards, who knows what you will get?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 What are you guys selling these things for please ? Send me a PM if posting is not desirable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Try looking at "E-body" Caddies (Seville, Eldorado). Same year E-bodies used the same Teves ABS system...Gents,I went PickNPulling today. Found a few treasures, but spent way too much time on one thing:Was looking at the front ABS sensors on a '90 Caddy STS. Actually pulled it and then went by two Reattas that were also in the yard. They really look identical - clocking the same, connector the same, rubber bushings and grommets the same, etc. The difference though, was that the Reatta front sensors (both '89 and '90 - don't know about '88) have ATE part number 10.0711.1144.1, and the Caddy had part number 10.0711.1178.1.Anyone know the difference? I didn't have time to actually remove a Reatta sensor. (Left 'em for Kit, in case he is interested.) And did not buy the Caddy sensor, but probably should have. So maybe one cable is a bit longer than the other, or something silly like that? Maybe the cans have different lengths? The Teves ABS system is so identical between the various E bodies that it is hard to imagine that there would be electrical differences. Edited October 16, 2011 by wws944 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Agree, I do have one Caddy sensor that the can is about .060" (1/16") longer. Is hard to see unless side by side. Cables look very similar & plug into the Reatta. Suspect a wheel lug spacer might work.BTW think the numbers above might be sdrawkcab: Longer one here (Cad ?) is .1144.Also just noticed that GMPartsGiant claims to have both the 1648453 (Caddy) and 1646478 (90 Olds Toro). The Olds is $88.29 with shipping if anyone cares to take a flyer (I did for the ABS1466). Edited October 16, 2011 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Padgett, both Reattas had the .1144. The Cadillac had .1178. I am very certain of this. So that would make the Reatta the longer one?Now I wonder if the sensors that Kit bought new from the dealer a couple of years ago, and didn't work, are the Cadillac ones and slightly too short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Reasonably sure (note the groove caused by the longer sensor rubbing the Reatta teeth.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Just checked a spare sensor that I removed from a '89 Reatta some months ago. It is also a .1144. End of can looks fine - no evidence of rubbing.The can length on this .1144, from snap ring to the end, is about 27 mm. Diameter is about 18 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Padgett, both Reattas had the .1144. The Cadillac had .1178. I am very certain of this. So that would make the Reatta the longer one?Now I wonder if the sensors that Kit bought new from the dealer a couple of years ago, and didn't work, are the Cadillac ones and slightly too short?In fact that seems to be exactly the problem Kit was having. Check out near the end of:http://forums.aaca.org/f116/pinout-box-troubleshooting-abs-system-290315-4.htmlSo it seems the 1178 sensors won't work. Not close enough to the teeth? The spacing must really be critical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I concur with wws944, the ATE PN for the Reatta fronts is the ...1144.1 one.Wonder if it is indicative of a distance measurement somehow? Since 1.144 inches is longer than the length of the can, maybe it's the distance from the top of the knuckle mounting hole to the top of the reluctor ring? (can plus air gap) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) I am in this discussion late and profess little knowledge of the sensor. A question - does the cover with it's configuration serve any purpose other than perhaps indexing and protective purposes? Edited October 16, 2011 by Kingsley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I am in his discussion late and profess little knowledge of the sensor. A question - does the cover with it's configuration serve any purpose other than perhaps indexing and protective purposes?Not indexing. It is easily twisted. (Well, assuming it hasn't corroded in place.)Anyone tried removing the snap ring in one of these puppies to try opening the can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Now I am really confused. The two ABS600s I have are marked .1178. Correct Reatta front has a silver can that is about 27mm long. Too long marked .1144. is 30mm. Somehow I doubly that Teves measured in inches, even GM was metric then.Is not that critical, anything from about .020" to .050" (.5 to 1.2 mm) should work. Having clean teeth is more important.I did measure the front clearance once with a standard feeler gauge, had to come in from behind the hub. This was when it kept giving codes for the right front WSS and it was really the left. I did everything.Fronts on my 88 are adjustable, never looked on others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steveskyhawk Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm guessing that the number referred to is a resistance value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) I don't think the .1144 or .1178 have anything to do with length or resistance value. Just a part number - probably corresponding to the order the engineering drawings were done.The can on my spare .1144 is definitely 27mm long. Measured it with two different rulers. Sounds like whoever made that ABS600 was a bit confused. (Does it have an ATE logo on it? Mine does, and so did the ones I was looking at yesterday.) But at least your ABS600s are 27mm versions.Germans have no idea what an inch is. Edited October 16, 2011 by wws944 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Could the numbers be a reference to a drawing or schematic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Two ABS600s same-same, also three used fronts, all 27 mm. Ex Cad is only one with 1144 and only 30mm one. Maybe it is a date or plant code. GM part number is also there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 When I was having issues with my "code 21" I installed that Caddy sensor lead that Padgett now has with the rub marks. I drove it about 1 mile and then removed it and sent it to Padgett, never thinking about using a washer to shorten up the can. I installed another sensor lead prior to going over to my buddy;s house for the final resolution of "code 21" Which as you remember was a swapping out of the main valve and yet another front sensor lead. At any rate, when we installed the main valve [which we did first as we were following the book] we still had a code this time "32" if I remember right. I explained to my friend that it might be the passenger side as that was the wheel that I put the long Caddy sensor lead on. His immediate concern was that while the aluminum [which is what the can is made of] is a sacrificial metal in comparison to the hub "exciter ring" which is made out of steel, the thinking was that the "exciter ring" would now be out of tolerance. So we measured the gap with a feeler gauge and if memory serves me the gap is aprox. 48 thousands [measured both front hubs]. Our thinking is that we were good on the tolerence and that the brand new ABS 600 sensor lead that I just installed was no good, which was correct as being no good[Padgett also has this sensor]. So long story longer the '89/90 sensor bracket should be aprox. 48 thousands and is not adjustable and the '88 bracket is adjustable [but I do not know what the gap should be]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 A little history of the TEVES Mark II ABS System: "It was originally designed and manufactured by the Brake & Chassis Division of ITT Automotive which was based in White Plains, NY. On September 28, 1998 the division was acquired by Continental AG of Hanover Germany. The name of the newly combined company is Continental Teves AG & Co. The Germans must have liked what they saw since they paid US$1.93 Billion."It was an American invention that came out of the aviation industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 ITT (US) owned Alfred Teves GMBH in Germany in the 1980s. If US designed, why is it called Teves ? Believe a number of european vehicles (e.g. SAAB, Peugot) used. Also the 10. parts numbering is German (Bosch and BMW also use it). YWTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Teves was bought by ITT in 1967. Sold to Continental in 1998. In 1969 Teves exhibited the first electronically controlled antilock braking system at Frankfurt's international motor show.The first automotive modern 3 channel 4 sensor ABS system was developed for Chrysler by Bendix and released in 1971 on the Imperial. Teves bought rights to this technology.Partnered with the Japanese Nisshinbo Mechatronics Inc.that made precision ABS parts starting in 1984. That year, it released the Mk II Integrated (the braking function, boost of braking force and hydraulic ABS regulation are combined in a constructive and functional manner in a compact unit) ABS system on the Lincoln Continental. In 1985 it was standard equipment on the European Ford Scorpio.Teves had manufacturing facilities in 20 countries around the world.Their system was the first to use easily programmable microprocessor control of the hydraulics along with built in diagnostics which made it easy to adapt to many different cars and made repair by inexperienced technicians easier with less investment in diagnostic equipment for the dealer. The integrated type of system quickly gave way to non-integrated systems and the Mk IV was announced in 1990 . This allowed the use of standard vacuum assisted boost and conventional master cylinders which cut the cost of adding ABS to a vehicle significantly.The Mk II System was supposedly available on the following vehicles:1985 to 1989 Lincoln Continental 1985 to 1992 Lincoln Mark VII 1986 to 1989 Buick LeSabre 1986 to 1990 Buick Electra, Park Avenue 1986 to 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham 1986 to 1990 Cadillac DeVille 1986 to 1990 Oldsmobile 98 1986 to 1990 Pontiac 6000 STE 1987 to 1992 Ford Thunderbird 1987 to 1992 Mercury Cougar 1987 to 1993 Saab 9000 1988 to 1989 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville 1988 to 1990 Buick Reatta, Riviera 1988 to 1989 Merkur Scorpio 1988 to 1990 Oldsmobile Delta 88, Toronado 1988 to 1991 Peugeot 505 1988 to 1990 Pontiac Bonneville & SSE 1991 to 1993 Saab 900 1991 to 1993 Volkswagen Passat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I was a tech at Bendix when we designed the anti-lock system (called anti-skid, back then) for Chrysler back in the late '60s. We used a '66 Dodge Polara as a test mule. Worked pretty good---when it worked. Complex rascal. In the days before integrated circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike_s Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hey Harry, was that the Bendix in Towson near the Black and Decker headquarters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jwin Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The Mk II System was supposedly available on the following vehicles:1985 to 1989 Lincoln Continental 1985 to 1992 Lincoln Mark VII 1986 to 1989 Buick LeSabre 1986 to 1990 Buick Electra, Park Avenue 1986 to 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham 1986 to 1990 Cadillac DeVille 1986 to 1990 Oldsmobile 98 1986 to 1990 Pontiac 6000 STE 1987 to 1992 Ford Thunderbird 1987 to 1992 Mercury Cougar 1987 to 1993 Saab 9000 1988 to 1989 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville 1988 to 1990 Buick Reatta, Riviera 1988 to 1989 Merkur Scorpio 1988 to 1990 Oldsmobile Delta 88, Toronado 1988 to 1991 Peugeot 505 1988 to 1990 Pontiac Bonneville & SSE 1991 to 1993 Saab 900 1991 to 1993 Volkswagen PassatDoes anyone know from experience if any of these models have the same exact sensor as ours. If so, I will do some picking in my area to find anything I can. Just can't afford to buy a bunch of bits that won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yep, Towson, Joppa Rd site.I think it's a shopping center now.I worked in R&D; we had Chrysler, Ford, and VW as potential clients.Plant moved to Newport News, VA in the early '70s, and then folded. Glad I didn't go with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 89 Maui Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Harry -In 1987 I had to do an inspection for Bendix at their ABS facility in Michigan.I don't remember what town it was located in but being a auto enthusiast I was given a tour of the shop wich had 6-7 lifts and they explained to me about their ABS braking systems.89 Maui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 You sure it wasn't South Bend, Indiana? That's where the brake division was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 89 Maui Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Thanx Harry, I usually flew around the country, based out of Chicago, but when I had projects in Wis, Ill, Ind or Mich I would drive. I had a few projects in South Mich, bit you are probably right that Bendix brake div as being in South Bend.90 Maui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Regarding wheel sensors for our Reattas.Are the front right and left sensors and leads identical to each other?And the rear right and left are also identical to each other but, the front and rears are different in configuration and length. Yes?John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 John the front right and left are the same. The rear right and left are the same. The fronts are different then the rears. The rears are shorter in length and don't have the rubber mount boots the fronts have. The rears are available aftermarket the fronts have been discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Fronts also have the mounting bolt 90 degrees from the lead. Rears are 180. Depth is the important thing and is the same, caddy is deeper and would need a spacer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thank you both.John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now