Trying to find a good "driver Buick".

[dibarlaw]

I have a 37 model 41 that I have been working on for the last 24 years and not close to getting on the road. My wife and I wanted a 1920s or earlier touring so we could participate with our local club(Mason-Dixon). A good older restoration is our goal. We chased a few leads so far. The first was a 23 sport roadster located in Vermont. Well after 2 weeks of phone calls,e-mails and photos we agreed on a price and a pickup date to test drive and have a carrier bring the model 54 home. We called the owner thursday night to say we would see him the next morning. He said no problem that he would be around all day. We drove 6 hr from Chambersburg Pa.to my daughter's in CT. Stayed over night then 3hr to Fairlee Vermont. As we got closer we called him 4 times both cell and business numbers. No answer. We arrived at 11:45 am,his home was open

as was 2 garage doors. In the garage he had a 23 Chevy coupe,a 23 Cadillac coupe, a 1920 Studebaker touring and a 20s Model T 2 door sedan. The 1923 Sport roadster was outside covered with a tarp. Around 1:00 we finally reached him. He said that he thought we were comming on saturday and that the car wasn't ready,but to take the tarp off and check it out and make ourselves at home. (It appeared to be exactly as shown in the descriptions.) That he had some things to take care of at the office(20 miles away) and he would be home shortly. 3 hours later with no hope of getting title work done he showed up. Needles to say my wife and I were more than upset. When I calmed down I told him I still wanted the car and had the money but the carrier could not pick up the car till the following week.(Sunday was hurricane Irene)! He then made excuses about the vacuum tank and the fueltank needing $1000 worth of work, even though he stated the car ran and drove well. Thanks but no thanks then 9 hr return drive. Learned that he bought the car last Aug. And he had the car listed for sale as early as Jan. Said he had too many cars and needed to downsize.

So other Buick Club members be forewarned by our first failed attempt.

[danhar1960]

I have a 37 model 41 that I have been working on for the last 24 years and not close to getting on the road.

It's always nice to know that I am not the only person on the planet in this situation. :)

Danny

[Guest mschuld]

I'm really disappointed hearing about your experience. Most car collectors are very respectful of others. I guess I've been pretty fortunate with my purchases. I feel that when you sell a collector vehicle, the car should be cleaned up, all parts boxed up and ready to go, all information and receipts in order, and inform the possible buyer what problems they may want to address. Even though a seller needs to unload a vehicle for whatever reason. that vehicle might be the buyers dream car. and that buyers feelings and time should be respected. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Best wishes

Michael Schuld

[jbbuick22]

What condition is the car?? A vacuum tank and poss cleaning the fuel tank does not seem

too bad.

A 23 Sport Roadster is a very nice car it has a lot of special features. Looking at the car in person before purchase is always a good idea, pictures lie a lot.

You may want to reconsider it.

Good luck which ever way you choose,

JB

22-6-55 Sport Touring

[dibarlaw]

The sport roadster was a pretty worn cond 3-4. A 49 year old restoration. Body paint was good. Fenders and splash aprons needed redone. Decent top & side curtains. Had a very serviceable original Spanish Grain leather upholstery and dash. The owner did state that it was driveable and ran well. While there I checked the radiator which was empty. Tires were also 49 years old. The underside showed many obvious leaks. When he tried to start it for me it seemed that he purposely flooded it to avoid me hearing it run. (Electric fuel pump). The previous owner had it stored for 15 years driving it only 3 times without doing any thing to it. His description "it would need a light serviceing" He came down $6,000 from his asking price of $26,500.

[jbbuick22]

$20000 does seem high, sounds like it needs more than a little light

servicing.

Good luck in your search,

JB

22-6-55 Sport Touring

[Terry Wiegand]

I know the person in Fairlee, Vermont that is the subject of this discussion. We bought our 1922 Model 48 Buick from him in early 2002 and traveled out to Vermont in October after Hershey to pick it up. He was an absolute joy to work with. The car was BETTER in reality than he described it to be. We like original cars and this '22 is everything a serious Buick collector could ever want.

For the folks from Pennsylvania wanting a 1920's Buick driver - if you will send me a private email or call, I know where there is a pretty decent 1926 Standard Coach.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

terrywiegand@prodigy.net

Phone - (620) 665-7672

[dibarlaw]

Update on our experiences. The new quest was for a 1914 B-37 advertised in the AACA Buy/Sell. We made arrangements to see and drive the B-37 last saturday. The owners were a very nice couple and were extremly courtious to my wife and I. In this case the photos were better than the car. Hardly any uhpolstry left at all. Very nice top and boot. Nice older white wall tires. Very poor old black paint. Passenger side front fender had some damage. Electric fuel pump. Undecarrage had been painted red. But seemed mostly original.

Well we came to test out the car. The Buick started easily, and as the husband showed me the things that had been repaired I waited for the engine to get to operating temp(to check for leaks). We all piled in and took off down the road. He said he had never had it out of 1st gear! Was afraid of ruining the gears. About a half mile down the road we switched drivers. The clutch engaged fairly smooth and had no problem getting thru all 3 speeds without clashing. We were delighted! Then I turned it around in their driveway and backed it into the garage and parked. The ladies disembarked from the back seat. As I sat still listening to the engine the ladies franticly called for me to shut it off! Coolant was pouring from the bottom of the radiator. Another big expence! We noted the flaws and made an offer reflective of the condition. More than the price guides quoted. They said they had several offers at the same price. Since they were planning to take it to the Hershey car coral at their original asking price. We said we would think about it on the 6 hr drive home. They had bought the car at the 2005 Hershey meet and admitedly overpaid "an impulse buy". The wife was the owner and originaly had hopes of the husband restoring the car. They did not want to take less than they paid in 2005. I increased my offer when we got back home. But we could not get together. So now it is in the car coral again.

So we are still looking for that driver Buick.

[FLYER15015]

debarlaw,

Check out Fast Lane Classic Cars - Classic Cars and Muscle Cars for sale

They are just north of St. Louis on the west side, and have a 1933 buick for sale @ $29,995.00 which is too rich for my blood, but they claim it's an older restorstion and a good driver. It's a series 50 model 57. in creame and green.

They have a "sale pending" sticker on the add, but it has been there for way too long .........

Best of luck,

Mike in Colorado

[dibarlaw]

Checked out the 33. But we are still looking for an open car, teens thur late 20s. Tonight we met with the 1914 B-37 owners at the Hershey car corral. (Since we live a little over an hour away). They had just sold it to a gentelman from New Jersey. The only other of interest to us was a 1924 "Sport Touring"

At least it was painted the 2 tone green. Looked to be a partial nearly complete restoration. Missing Parts. I believe I saw the same one on line with a dealer out of Springfield Ohio. But it was late and no one around to verify. Anyway there was a sold card on it. Along with about an 18"square of the of top torn out at the rear. We will check back on saturday.

The "QUEST" continues!

[FLYER15015]

Dibarlaw,

O.K., I'm goimg to publicly give up one of my "secret" leads to you. (probably should have sent a PM).

Contact Mr. Paul Garrison (cell # 303 909 8603) @ Ed Vecchiarelli's (weldcountyclassics.com).

They are in Brighton, Colorado just north of Denver. I bought my 1940 series 90l from Paul.

In their inventory is a 1928 (?) open 4 door Buick. Wooden wheels, leather interior, good canvas top and a pretty good appearance overall. NOT museum quality, but something you can work on a bit @ a time and end up w/ a very nice car.

I was holding this one in "reserve" for myself, in case I traded the limo, but I've fallen in love, and I do not have room for another girl in my barn/life.

You can tell Paul, Mike Simpson sent you, and see if he can send you some pic's. Heck you could drive out here in a day and a half, and the leaves are beautiful now.

Good Hunting,

Mike in Colorado

[jbbuick22]

Check the HCCA web site there are several for sale.

Good hunting,

John

[dibarlaw]

Thanks Mike I might try your lead. But I believe it would be more of a 4 or 5 day drive for me from South central Pa.

I stopped at the hospitality tent at Hershey and got several more leads. A 1923 model 45. The trouble is it's in Texas. There was a local (York Pa.)1918 Model 35 4 cyl which was very nice. But not $29,000 worth, though I prefer the "6". There was a partial restoration 1924 Sport Touring? Looked more like a model 45 with 2 tone green paint. With a freshly ripped new top from the trailering to the corral. I asked the new overseas owners what they paid .. $24,000. The dealer from Springfield Ohio was asking $29,500 on line. The 1914 B-37 I drove in NY last saturday was sold at the corral. I know that the owners would not take less than $18,500 and went to a gentelman in NJ.

In the car show I was given a lead on a 1919 H-45 .. But in Florida.

Amazingly the car that started this quest, the 23 model 54. I found a duplicate in the car show. A totally original unrestored complete survivor from Va. The conversation I had with the owner was delightful. He is now a new member of the BCA. Over all it was a great experience, but the quest continues!

Larry

[FLYER15015]

Larry,

I have relatives that live in Latrobe, Pa., and they are in the high 70's. Usually drive to Omaha the first day and Denver the second.

Like I said, get Paul to send you pic's, pricing and info on the car.

mike

[dibarlaw]

Thanks Mike:

I will try again to reach Paul. I see that the 1917 Buick D-45 in the R&M auction sold for $19,250. Now that was in our price range. I was just afraid of the $150 bidders fee and buyers premium and then tax!

Larry

[tblack]

Larry

I see by your post you would consider a 4 cylinder. If so I have a 1916 D35 and a 1917 D35 (made into a truck)...I too prefer 6 cylinders but the 4's move right along. If interested I believe you would be able to swing the pair on your budget....also available I have a truck load of parts that we can negotiate on a total price( Included in the parts are 4 engines and one is totally rebuilt, babitt bearings,new pistons and rings).....If interested drop me a PM or call at 518 863 4400.

[dibarlaw]

Thanks Tom:

The pair look quite nice. This fourm has given us many options for a car. Thanks to all who have been posting with leads. But in the meantime we are scheduled to drive up to Ogdensburg NY on friday, to look at a pretty nice 1925 model 25 "6"standard touring. This car does seem to fit the bill and is in our budget. I will send you an e-mail so I can attach a phototo see what you may think. I was on the petrolina website for over 6 months before I was able to post photos. If this falls through I will be open to the pair you have.

Larry

[jeff_a]

Terry,

Nice to see a familiar name. When involved with the antique car community in Hutchinson, I believe I met you a couple of times. My dad's name was Bernard Brown and my grandad's name was Glenn D. Brown. Glenn had a 1909 Buick Raceabout for 60 or 70 years.

----Jeff

[Terry Wiegand]

Jeff, Yes, I do remember you and your grandfather. I also remember you living on West 11th Street and you had a Model A Ford coupe I believe. I had a very original 1928 Willys-Knight Coach. Gosh, that has been over 40 years ago now. Why don't you send me a private email and we can get together and visit.

Terry Wiegand

terrywiegand@prodigy.net

Phone - (620) 665-7672

[jeff_a]

Terry,

Still have coupe...remember your Willys-Knight. Great to hear from you again! I asked somebody yesterday if he knew you, and he asked if you're the guy with a quonset hut full of Buicks. I told him no, as far as I knew. ----Jeff

Edited October 15, 2011 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Jeff, We have three 6-cylinder Buicks in the shop. I have the '16 that my dad bought from Lloyd Allen's estate. This car has been in my family for a few months shy of 50 years. I've had it 21 of those 50. We have a '22 with less than 5,000 actual, documented miles on it and we have the '22 that came from Vermont. I have the remains of 2 other 1916 D-45's and quite a few parts. Kept the Willys-Knight 32 years and sold it in 2002.

Terry Wiegand

terrywiegand@prodigy.net

Phone - (620) 665-7672

[Marty Roth]

Jeff,

We may be considering selling our 1914 B-37 Touring. It is a much better looking and driving car than the one you saw.

The 1914 is eligible for Brass-Era Touring with AACA, VMCCA, and Horseless Carriage Club of America, as well as for Vintage, Reliability, Gas & Brass, Nickel and Glidden Tours. Post-1915 models are not eligible for AACA Reliability Tours, VMCCA Gas & Brass, and HCCA events.

We rebuilt the starter/generator, clutch, and had a new ring & pinion made in a better rear-end ratio for more comfortable touring (3.31:1 instead of the original 4.08:1). We also repolaced all 6 tires, tubes and flaps, powder-coated the rims, and painted the spokes. Then we pin-striped the car, and made new tonneau covers for both the front and rear so we could close up the car (day or noght) with or without the full set of side curtains (also included).

We also added a full set of seat-belts.

The 1914 Buick is currently at a friend's place near Johnstown, PA.

It had some relative minor damage resulting from a rear suspension spring which broke while in our trailer en route to the AACA Meet in Oak Brook, IL in September. This damage is in process of being repaired.

I'll post pictures.

Marty

504-258-3909

Edited October 17, 2011 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

Additional photos of Marty's 1914 B-37 Touring

504-258-390

MartyDaleRoth@aol.com

Edited October 17, 2011 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Marty:

Thanks for the great photos. PM sent.

Larry

[dibarlaw]

<META name=Generator content="Microsoft SafeHTML"><STYLE>.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P{padding:0px;}.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}</STYLE> At this time I would like to report of the thrill of the delivery of the 1925-25. But I can't. Because it is suposidly still on its way and sitting somewhere near Binghamton NY. As part of the deal the owners decided to trailer it themselves. Stating that they had acess to a trailer.

I had originaly said I would arrange for transport from Ogdensberg NY. But they said they would like a "Road Trip" and bring it down saturday. Later this week they said that they planned to leave Friday around 10:00 alowing at least 8-9 hours. GREAT!! I told them that I would look forward to seeing them 6-7 PM and safe happy travels! E-mail around 12:30 AM moved departure time to 11AM. They said that they would call around supper time to inform about progress. I was out with a group of fellow teachers but no call came thru on the cell. When I got home my wife said they called around 5PM saying that they could not secure a trailer... and that they were driving it to Chambersburg!!! Over 430 miles!!! That they were staying at Binghamton the night. I called their cell but no answer. I am absolutly sick about this. I was thought to be iresponsible for driving my (at the time) 50 year old 37 Buick from Holidaysburg Pa to my home. A distance of about 120 miles. That was after a very thurough 2 hour test drive with working lights, turn signals, brakes etc. And still after 57 glorious miles.. tragety.. the clutch blew!! Then the embarasing roll back ride home. Even without the concerns I already stated about the 25, (overheating and clutch) in several other threads there were enough issues that I would not trust it's reliability for more than a 10 mile round trip, untill I atended to those issues. I was not informed about their decision. I realize that the car was not in my name yet. But money has changed hands and an agreement made. I feel that I am about to learn a very expensive lesson.

All I can do is pray that things work out.

[50jetback]

Relax Larry, 450 miles is a mere walk in the park for a car like this. We regularly drive them that distance and more.

Have a read of this and you will see we pamper our cars today!!

http://forums.aaca.org/f165/newspaper-report-1921-perth-western-australia-303444.html

I hope it all turns out well for you and of course we would like to see some photos when she arrives.

[dibarlaw]

The 1925-25 arrived about 4 PM today. No ones cell phone had service so I was left with my imagination. They did drive it to Binghamton!

But to get an open trailer. Pheeew!!! So all's well and happy here. I parked it in my garage. Our 2006 HHR is now sulking in the cold parking lot behind our house. We all went out to dinner and had a great time. After we left the sellers, I came home to get aquainted with

my Buick and spend some quality time. Till 11:00. I have spent an hour trying to get my computer to cooperate sorting out the new photos taken today. I will try again tomorrow.

Larry

[Matt Harwood]

Please post photos whenever you can. My father had a 1925-25 that was sold to New York 7-10 years ago. It would be cool if this was it!

[dibarlaw]

Matt:

I am still having issues with posting photos. So I will e-mail and attach them.

I hope this is the lead I need to locate some history on it. As the previous owner said around the time he bought it the fellow he bought it from was in ill health and passed away. After a while he shreaded all the old paper work on it and forgot the name.

Larry DiBarry

[dibarlaw]

New occupant of the garage 1925-25 and arrival images. I am still trying to deal with the overheating problems. The original evaluation was the "clutch adjustment problem". The former owner said that they did drive it from Ogdensburg NY. to Binghamton NY. where they were able to get a trailer for the remainder of the trip to Chambersburg Pa. I have not been able to drive more than 1/2 mile without it overheating. Following their directions... After start up in retard move up to full advance about 10:30 position to the wheel. same as the owners manual. Seems to run fine but in 10-15 min belching out the overflow and temp at top on the motometer.

So far I have added an internal brass coil to the lower hose; scrubbed the fan belt clean/er and tightened up a bit. I could spin the fan with one finger!

Cleaned the water pump shaft and the packing glands added packing and snugged up. Now hardly a drip! Went out again and within 5 blocks same thing! The radiator does apear to have some scale in the upper tank. Would realy like to avoid having the radiator redone already! I have been calming my frustration by polishing out the 40 year old crazed paint job. It does look prettier!

Larry DiBarry

[KdFwagen]

Good luck. Hope this all works out ok for you.

[dibarlaw]

Well I have the radiator out and at the local radiator shop. The shop has done many antique ones over the years. ]Owner said it looked plugged solid! Don't know if it can be saved/ repaired yet.

Keep

you posted.

Larry

[Dandy Dave]

As I suspected! While it is out, be sure you flush out the block. Don't get to frustrated. Remember, you are working on an 86 year old automobile. Dandy Dave!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

What a nail-biter! These fool-hardy adventurers are really putting you through the wringer. This will either have a happy ending, worthy of a real good story-telling, or it will sour the prospects for many long distance antique car purchases. Thanks for being so candid.

[dibarlaw]

Thanks Rob for your opinion. I must admit I would have gone slower on my enthusiasim for the quest. But I wanted to have a little time to drive our "driver" before winter. And any minor issues would be taken care of over the winter layup. As it is we did not get a"driver. It has already become a project with the radiator still in question. Other issues the side push rod covers leak badly, which I need to make gaskets. And the clutch adjustment which was the only problem originaly noted. Overall we understood that there was to be some upgrading along the way. I had hoped to be working on my 37-41 over the winter to be able to get it in shape to go to the 2012 Buick nationals. I have come to the realization that I can't do all this myself. I don't have anyone local inclined to help. Just afraid at times I will do some unrepairable damage.

Mainly it is just encouragement from all the members who have responded to this fourm that keeps me going. Some indicated I should have waited to get a "done car"but we realy needed to stay within a budget. And "done cars" were

at least double the price. This has been a repeat of my 37-41 experience of 24 years ago. Clutch problem decomissioned this car immediately. With family,

school and money issues I was just able to get back to it 6 years ago. Then health issue came calling. Just want to drive my"driver" before anything else happens!

Larry

[Guest Rob McDonald]

LARRY, experience tells me that there's no such thing as a "done" old car. At best, they can be expected to be "done for now", when we take possession. Owning such a unique relic means taking on the responsibility for a continuous sequence of maintenance and repairs. We're spoiled by modern cars, whose upkeep comprises keeping the gas tank full and changing a timing belt every 100,000 miles or so.

We all share your disappointment, though, at being unable to enjoy your Buick right out of the box. However, winter's pretty much upon us and your radiator will be back in the car by spring. Because the previous owners even considered driving it from Ogdensburg (near Ottawa) to Chambersburg (near Washington), the rest of the mechanicals are probably pretty well sorted out. I suspect that their 200 mile run to Binghamton could have caused the rad to collect the accumulated sludge from the cooling system. Come to think of it, that's kind of what a radiator is supposed to do.

Your long association with your '37 Special sounds a lot like me and my '57 Roadmaster. Maybe we both bought them at a time when our lives were simpler. In my case, marriage and kids intervened at about the 80% mark in my car's shade tree restoration. It's now slipped back to about 70%, despite dry storage over the ensuing 20 years.

Now that my teenagers are not needing constant care - and I'm so lucky that they're really good kids - I too am regularly tempted to buy another old car. I then look out toward the garage window and see the nose of my old Roady looking back at me. It tells me to just get out there and finish the job that I started, when Nixon was in the White House and OPEC made its first fuel price correction.

[dibarlaw]

Rob;

Thanks for the "pepper-upper" I need these comments. I hope both of us find some time to get our other project cars completed

Regards:

Larry

[Buicknutty]

I have had a '41 McLaughlin Buick Roadmaster coupe for 20 years, and I just cannot believe it has been that long, and have been working on since about the year 2000. Though it ran when I got it, the previous owner had started restoring the car, and did a lot of damage to the already badly rusted body. So that was a major challenge to get through.

Anyway, the long and short of this is to say, I really thought that this would be the year it finally makes it back on the road, but work, and close, rather ill relatives, conspired against the completion of it! Hopefully next year!!

Keep up the good work guys, and try to not lose hope!

Keith

[dibarlaw]

Still trying to drive my Buick:( The radiator has been boiled out, I back flushed the block. Now it runs cool. The next issue was the oil slinging fan hub. Which I rebuilt and made new bearings for. Also made a new leather belt. Made new gasket for pushrod cover which slowed down the amount of oil leaks. But still leaks well between cylinder block and crankcase. Also the starter-generator water pump shaft bearing has a steady flow from it. Any Ideas how to stop that leak? I have secured a supplier for the 600W "Steam Cylinder Oil" for the transmission and will pick up saturday. Met with a fellow about 1 1/2 miles away with an unrestored 1924 model 45 and compared notes. He gave me a crank that did not fit his car. But it fit mine perfectly!

Well last sunday, (since it was finally properly insured) I thought I would take it for a short drive. This time it reluctantly started and drove about 50 feet where it stopped and wouldn't start again. Keeps flooding.. The elec fuel pump is set at lowest output.(Planned to restore the vacuum tank this winter).I had to tow it back to my garage with my 87 Chevy S-10 and push it back in the garage. Boy is it heavy! Glad none of the neighbors were out...

How humiliating!

Larry

[dibarlaw]

Dave:

Thanks for the info. But alas I believe I will probably have to pull the head as the foaming is symptomatic of a blown gasket. I just thought I could enjoy the car a little bit before I would be getting into major engine work. Did compression test yesterday. High reading is 55lb low is 48lb. On an earlier post I was congratulating myself on a job well done on rebuilding my fan hub. Re-machining and fitting bronze bearings to have the side play down to only .003. (Even did a patent search for acurate drawings.) Also to stop the oil slinging and having to scrub out the fan belt each time it ran. I made a new leather belt but have not used it. Each time I drove the car and the overflow would spit out and( I presumed) steam out more imbeded oil from the belt. Also leave a mess from the oil that leaks from between the block and the crankcase. Today after about 5 min running and shut off before any water could push out, I saw that on the crank collar there was a line of heavy oil directly below the fan hub. This was unlike the spatter I would normally see on the inside of the hood. I checked the fan and I could barely turn it. I could move the belt though. So my fine repair had locked up! So tomorrow I will go out and buy some 4"aluminum and make the fan hub insert to take sealed ball bearings. When I dissasembled the hub it still had about 1/2 of the oil I put in to proper level. So it was getting out and onto the belt. But it also had bronze particles from the new bearings. I did make spiral oil groves in the new bearings. The hub was was originaly full of crusty grease from an Alemite fitting. I had to chip it out!

So at this time I am back to square one. From my first post on the Buick site.....( "STILL) TRYING TO FIND A GOOD DRIVER BUICK"

Larry<!-- google_ad_section_end -->