Continental engines

[semloh1950]

Hi All i just purchased a 1947 M.C.I. bus (old greyhound ) it has a 572 continental gas engine in it

[checker]

How about a few photos?

[semloh1950]

How about a few photos?

i will try if i can

Edited August 24, 2013 by semloh1950 (see edit history)

[semloh1950]

tried to up load a picture of the spare engine but says file to big

do not know how to resize it

[semloh1950]

here is the history on the bus

I guess you knew that greyhound bought out mci in Winnipeg there were only 35 of these built and they all went to Calgary

this bus is number #14 in the line and bus number 713 on Calgary's fleet

in and around 1960 the bus was purchased by scenic mountain tours in Banff and you can still see the logo on the front of the bus

in 1970 some people in Saskatoon purchased the bus and converted it to a motor home as the fellow was working in fort mac he used to drive it back and forth

he parked the bus in and around the mid 80’s and it sat there till 2007 when the fellow I purchased it from got it

he already had a project bus and felt he could not get to this one so this is how we got it

in 1947 a spare continental 572 cu inch engine was sent to Calgary with the bus on the spare cradle that motor followed the bus all these years and I got the spare engine with the bus with zero miles on it

it also came with the mechanics rebuild manual which I have in my possession at the moment

the interior of the bus still maintain its original blinds lights and so on the seats were removed and cabinetry installed

[JustDave]

helveryone

my 27 moon roadster has a 18l continental engine used in moon and flint,my 31 and 32 devauxs have a 40a continental engine,in the 30s they buily a massey ferguson tractor with a 40aa engine same motor with a larger bore,i believe durant 22a motors are quite close to the devaux 40 a motors, dave

[soldier]

We had 1790 cubic inch air cooled V-12 Continental engines in our M46 and M47 tanks during Korea. Soon after the war in 1954 we go the M48 tank with the same engine. The M48 had better sloping armor, and this chassis with an updated engine became the M60. Soldier

[Barry Wolk]

I'm working on a 1930 Ruxton for a friend. It has a backwards 18S engine.

[prs519]

Cars and Parts magazine had a two or three part article on Continental engines back in the early 80's (guessing here - if anyone has an index start in '85 and work back and forth).

It had a complete listing of cars using the engines from the early twenties right up on through the early sixties (Checker). I know my uncle's Jewett had one. They were also used in some high priced classics; Stutz Blackhawk series, Ruxton, and Peerless come to mind.

Have you tried the librarian in Detroit, MI (original home of Continental Motors Company)? I know that sounds old fashioned but librarians can sometimes provide a wealth of information not available to the general public through Google (they have other databases). Just a thought.

Speaking of Jewett, did any survive? Seems one never sees one! I think they made many thousands.

[prs519]

We had 1790 cubic inch air cooled V-12 Continental engines in our M46 and M47 tanks during Korea. Soon after the war in 1954 we go the M48 tank with the same engine. The M48 had better sloping armor, and this chassis with an updated engine became the M60. Soldier

Yes! That rings a bell. I believe the M60s had Teledyne Continentals all the way up to the 1980s.

[prs519]

I have an article in SIA, somewhere, and the writer said that the Red Seal engine was a marketing ploy by, I think, Ned Jordan. Continental began, for reasons unknown, to put a red seal or data tag, I forget which, on their engines. Jordan, ever the salesman, began advertising, "Now, with the all new Red Seal engine." It caught on and Continental began promoting it also. Kind of like when Ford went from the Standard and DeLuxe to the DeLuxe and Super DeLuxe. Same wine, different bottle

Perhaps in addition to the red tag, they painted the heads red like on Chrysler. I know this because a friend of mine has a very old relic of a combine with a red-painted head. Continental engines were ubiquitous in construction and mining during the 60s and 70s booms.

[LI_BENTLEY]

Would be interested in anyone having one of those "J" engines for a Speedwell, it is 5" by5" bore and stroke.

[Bud Tierney]

Can't really help on your "J"; too early for my stuff...

If you haven't already, you might check with Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon at Monte's in Chicago, generally described as the person/place to start for parts/advice/sympathy re' obsolete Cont'ls...

garradmoon@montes@flash.net or montesequipment.com.

He may have info/knowledge of other makes that used your "J" that might help your search.

If you're not already aware, there was a later "J4" 33/4x5 that could be easily confused with your "J".

An interesting point: I only have one catalog that lists the "J": a 1917 Burd ring catalog set up by ring size (under each ring size is a list of cars, trucks, engines that used that size)...

The "J" is listed a 5 bore using 1/4" rings, a 4cyl using 4 rings per piston...

Speedwell is listed in that section as:

Speedwell 1910 and 1911 All

Speedwell truck 1912

Speedwell truck model Z 1913...all of which show engine 4cyl using THREE ring piston

All Cont'l engines in that section are listed as 4cyl 4 ring piston

That said, old parts catalogs are weak reeds to lean on, being subject to many omissions, errors, misprints etc, as well as changing specs by engine/vehicle builders that come after datalog compilation/publication dates.

[steelcrazy]

Hi All i just purchased a 1947 M.C.I. bus (old greyhound ) it has a 572 continental gas engine in it

Hi

Thanks in advance for any info on this engine of mine.

I saved a Brockway from the scrapyard some time ago and the engine ran like a swiss watch. So every year I run it for a good half hour to cycle the oil through it. I believe it is a 572 conti. Says chrome moly on the side, has a big cast iron zenith 2 barrel carb, split head inline 6 cyl, attached to a big 5 speed trans. Literature would be great, gasket supplier nice too. This is an overhead valve job that came out of a town highway truck. Motor and trans probably weigh a ton linked together. I also have two 427 cu.in engines that need to be rehabbed. So the names of valid parts suppliers would be a great help.

Your bus is very interesting. Did you figure out how to get better pics of the engine?

thanks for anything you can offer.

[whtbaron]

All I can add is that the patent dates on the tag of the 1925 Moon engine I posted on this site begin at Jan 5, 1909.

http://forums.aaca.org/f223/continental-1925-moon-361601.html

[Bud Tierney]

STLCZY--your OHV is probably an R-6572, listed as a 43/4x53/8 (Brockway's 48B), and your 427s are probably the B-6427 if L-head or the T-6427 if OHV, both listed as 45/16x47/8...

OH--Fascinating--

(A) 36-49 Motor lists B-6427 as Brockway 42BX (several model listings)...for 36-49 Brockway shows no T-6427...

( 49-57 Motor lists B-6427 as Brockway 42BD, 42BX and 42BY, AND shows R-6572 as Brockway 48B, 48BD and 48FD...I have no idea what the differences are...(no Brockway T-6427 listed)...

As mentioned earlier (assuming parts are NLA thru local sources) the place to start is Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon at Monte's in Chicago...I seem to recall some of Cont'ls larger engines being issued in "series 1, series 2" or something similar...

Another old Cont'l supplier mentioned favorably is P A Ross Machinery in Dallas (parossmachinery.com)

If your engines no longer have tags, send any embossed/stamped numbers/letters on them to Garrad for ID; my Cont'l list is not by cid, so there may well be other 427s and 572s...

And you can always search for parts on EBay, or by posting your wants on the various old truck and old eqpmt sites...

If the above are no help, or if you want second/third opinions, there're the profe$$ional obsolete parts dealers--Egge, Foley, M&M, Jobbers etc etc....Good luck

[steelcrazy]

Ah! The search begins...

Thanks very much. Happy trails.

[KatBeenTellgU]

first Hope I am doing this correctly...???

Ok my husband, helping a gentlleman cleaning out the 'Barns'...as acquired this Continental Motor...engine.

The only stamped identifiers are: 6731D and in another location 5644 DC. It has a crank, It looks to be a 4 and

we were told...by this elderly, recently widowed gentleman...it was in an International Harvester?! Have no

knowledge of year, actual size, nor what it actually originated in? Oh! and it is NOT ceased!! Yea! So, what I

suppose I am getting to is: 1) Need Help, please? 2) all infor, appreciated. & 3) we are interested in restoring/reselling

since it is not frozen...if, it turns out to be feasible?! Thank you in advance for any assistance.

[Bud Tierney]

KBT---quick, before something unfortunate happens to the elderly gentleman, ask "...an IH what??..." (they built trucks and all kinds of motorized Ag etc eqpmt)...AND what makes him think it's a Cont'l...

I don't recall an old Cont 4 in the truck lines (some old Wauk 4s, yes); a very cursory eyeballing of a couple handy catalogs finds the little Cont Y4069 and Y4112 4cyls in some 38-40 or so Combines and Hay Balers, and a couple Farmalls used a GD193, but I think that's a diesel (altho there was a G193 gas version) and I assume you mean a gas engine...

That said, I don't follow IH, so I don't know a lot more than I do (think) I know...

[Hudson33]

Interesting thread as I have been trying to get more info on Continental history. According to Hudson Motor car history they started with Atlas, Buda and Continental motors, As the Model 20's sold so well they approached Continental who agreed to build a new plant near the Hudson plant in Detroit. From an old drawing, the Buda motor is similar to the Continental but not the same. I haven't found any Continental marking on the motor but engine serial number start with KK .....but the valve covers are cast with HUDSON. Motor is 226 cu in and 4" x 4 1/2" stroke. and 2 main bearings.

I believe they supplied HUDSON until they developed their own design motor which became an icon.

Would welcome any pic or info on Continental motors 1910 to 1915

Fred

[LI_BENTLEY]

The early Continental engines did not have the name Continental cast or stamped into them unless it had a data plate, some had the car name cast into an easily replaced part like a water jacket cover or valve cover and no data plate so the engine appeared to be their own. The motor number then would be stamped into the crankcase. and inside also.

[JerkyNic]

The knowledge here is impressive. I have one for you folks. My employer purchased the remains of a Sugar Plantation for the land. I found a truck that appears to have a wooden body built for hauling cane out of the fields. Most old trucks have the manufacturer's name on the front radiator such as Packards. This one has "Orleans" written on it. After much searching, I believe this truck may have come from the New Orleans Motor Truck Manufacturing Company. It does not appear to have been in production for a significant amount of time because I cannot find any data on them. A picture of the factory, a few articles in publications stating the executive staff, announcment of production then a publication stating they would would build trucks bound for Mexico City. That is it. Nothing else. Nodda. I brought the vehicle to my house to try and preserve the shape of the rotten body and found a Continental Name Plate on the left side of the block. I am just now searching for any information I can find on the engine or the truck. There is no one to ask. The owners of the plantation are long gone and to be honest... if they had a clue, they would not have left some of these items on the property. Check out the date. I don't remember ever reading Jesus owning one of these, but what is 4 -1/8 suppose to mean?

[1912Staver]

I would say 4- 1/8 is probably the engine bore size. Some engines {not necessarily Continental} will give bore and stroke. The truck is quite a find! Hopefully at some point it gets restored, or at least preserved. These old beasts take up a lot of space and time; I have a late teens Packard 3 ton, but have real character. It is probably quite a rare make.

Greg in Canada

[Bud Tierney]

You have indeed come up with a "rara avis"---

Mroz's US Truck Ency says built 1920-21 by New Orleans Mtr Trk Mfg Co (all spelled out) in 11/2, 21/2 and 31/2 ton tons, the 11/2 with 3 speed trans, the others with 4 speeds..

Wheelbases were 144, 156 and 164 inches...

Interestingly, Mroz refers to Herc engines, a different one in each size, but many of these "assembled" cars/trucks were built with whatever the buyer wanted...if you're close to a decent pub lib they should have a ref copy and/or a ref copy of Georgano's World Trucks book (the big one with histories, not the little one with just names/adds's)...

Can't quite make out stamped numbers etc on the engine tag on my set; pls adv all shown (looks like ser #, then C-1??---I have C, C2, C4, C6 on my Cont'l list, but no C-1??)...

With all due respect to 1912S above, the space with 41/8 is usually the bore/stroke, in that order, in which case it would be the stroke that was 41/8; HOWEVER, at least one of the Cs on my list shows in old catalogs as 41/8 bore...

Fascinating....pls adv further...

You might also generate more replies by making this a wholly new thread in the Cont'l engine or Truck forums here, and I'd suggest also posting on the old truck forums aths, justoldtrucks and the old car/truck forum on smokstak for more coverage...

[Rusty_OToole]

If Jesus went up to Heaven on high, that would be the rig to do it. What else would pull a grade like that in high gear?

But, if it went to heaven, what is it doing in Louisiana? Actually it looks like it spent time in the other place.

[Bud Tierney]

Sigh: finally thought to doubleclick on tag picture to blow up; it does look like "C4"..

Per a 1930 McCord gasket catalog the C4 is a solid head=no removable cylinder head=apparently issued in two bores: 33/4 and 41/8, stroke on both 51/4. A fairly popular truck engine per makes used in, but I have no prod info so don't know how many actually produced...

Eyeballing a 1930 wrist pin catalog quickly picks up a dozen or more makes listings, every one the 41/8 bore, but don't know if that'd hold true across the board...

A 32 engine parts catalog shows little commonality with other Cont'l Cs of the period; contact info for Monte's and P A Ross should be earlier in this thread...Good luck.

[jwilli43]

Continental Motors Straight 8 valves springs and pistons. Restoring a 1930 15 s and looking for parts. Any help would be appreciated. JW

[intimeold]

Continental was one of the primary early US independent engine builders, and may well've been THE primary builder...Continentals were in literally everything imaginable, altho I don't believe they ever went into the heavy industrial type engines (to me that's 1200 cid up) (I'm open to correction as all my ref material is on truck/tractor/const etc stuff).

There's a pathetic little thumbnail on Wiki; my computers still sick and can't research much.

There's a list of (known) cars and trucks that used Cont'l engines on a Continental engine page on the Hemmings website...I can't comment on the car list but can on the truck list as I added a considerable batch myself maybe 2-3 yrs ago.

I said "known" as Cont provided engines for some builders who passed them off as their "own" engines, like Graham, who I believe added their own cyl heads and water pumps. (again, I'm open to correction). I understand Continental also produced engines to others design, in which case they were just the fabricator.

My Continental engine list is presently gathering dust; I got bogged down trying to connect the PU's to the auto/ind'l versions, among other complexities.

(For awhile they used: "Automotive" F6209 (6 cyl 209 cid) (Auto/Trk installations), "Ind'l" F209 (tractors, ag/const etc eqpmt installations), and PF209 (free standing power units) type designations. They're also rumored to've been very good at giving separate designations to the same engine sold to different car assemblers. (the number-letter years 7c, 16b, ad nauseum)..

There're also little air-cooleds, the more recent R8/10/12 (Renault engines) in Turfcats and such, and, as mentioned , their ongoing aircraft engine business, plus, no doubt, Cont'ls I've never heard of.

First off I don't know what a Tufcat, is.

But the Renaults R8, R10, had liquid cooled engines. I changed enough head gaskets to be sure. I know you didn't mention the Dauphine; but it was liquid cooled also. The head gaskets weren't hard to replace; a real simple engine.

I never worked on a R12; but I just did a Google check on it; and it looks to be liquid cooled also.

Renault did build aircooled engines earlier and later than the R8, and R10; but they were called other names.

[Bud Tierney]

Turfcats are Jacobson (Jacobsen?) Turfcats, commercial lawn tractors-grounds keepers equipment, some models of which came with the Teledyne-Cont'l Renault engines with French (Ducellier??) ignition systems. Ign parts were, at the time, not carried by many local outlets, and there were various inquiries as to where to find them.

Don't recall if I had confused the Cont'l-R Turfcats with their other air cooleds at the time, but easily could have; many thxx for heads-up.

[Hudzilla]

Now owned by the Chinese

[rjp]

I do have a  continental engine 1917 7n22022 date 1917. Can anyone tell me pros or cons? Its been inside but has not ran in about 50 yrs.

[PFindlay]

On 9/20/2011 at 3:31 PM, Barry Wolk said:

Yes, there is an engine list in the book.

Can you tell me if there are any specs for 1915-16 Continental 6N and/or 7H Overland engines?  I'm trying to determine if there's any interchangeability between the two.

 

Thank you, Peter

[PFindlay]

On 12/20/2014 at 10:09 AM, Bud Tierney said:

HOWEVER, at least one of the Cs on my list shows in old catalogs as 41/8 bore...

Bud, 

 

Do you have any information on Continental 6N six cylinder engines, circa 1915?

 

Thanks,

 

Peter Findlay

Burnaby, B.C. Canada

[Bud Tierney]

   Got your PM...

   My parts catalogs don't list engine production dates unless there's a piston assembly, valve system or bearing change mid-production...

   A 1930 McCord gasket catalog shows the 6N as part of a series---6N, 7N, 8N, 9N, 10N, and 11N,  all solid heads, the batch having  two B/S without any individual ID...

   The 7H shows as one of three listed with one set of gaskets---7H, 8H, 8d, all solid head, all 31/2x51/4...

   Only four gaskets are listed for the 7H---Cyl port plug, Cyl plug, Fan lever stud, Starting crank;.Of those, the y share the Cyl port plug (6N list calls it Cyl valve plug) and the Cyl plug (6N calls it Cyl plate plug)  

   In fact, that 36 catalog shows the 5N and 7H sharing piston assemblies  along with a dozen or so other Cont'ls...

   But then your luck runs out--valves and bearings different...

   This's an old thread; you should start a new one to get more exposure...my, how time flies!!

   OOPS---the 36 catalog is King Products, engine parts

   OOPS II---I'm getting too old for this--"5N" should, of course, be 6N...

Edited July 11 by Bud Tierney
Addition (see edit history)

[PFindlay]

1 hour ago, Bud Tierney said:

A 1930 McCord gasket catalog shows the 6N as part of a series---6N, 7N, 8N, 9N, 10N, and 11N,  all solid heads, the batch having  two B/S without any individual ID...

 

Thank you, Bud.  I may be starting to piece this together.

 

For the 6N, 7N, 8N ... series was one of the bore/stroke given as 3.5 x 5?  This would agree with information received from another member and is probably what's in my car.

 

Was there mention of a smaller 6N with B/S 3.25 x 4.5?

 

Thanks, Peter

[Bud Tierney]

That 30 catalog lists two b/s---31/2x51/4 and 33/4x5...BUT I've found too many discrepancies in b/s in that catalog to rely on it...

Unfortunately have no other catalog that lists b/s for them, BUT three period ring/piston catalogs list all 6N thru 11N as 31/2 bore...

Only one 6N is listed for parts...

Oddly enough, a 1915 Overland model 82 was listed with a 6H (31/2x51/4 per 1930 McCord)......

Nothing in 5 period catalogs for 10N, 11N, 7H, 8H, 8D---which could mean they ind'l versions, or used so little parts co's didn't stock parts...ALSO my catalogs weak on pre-1918, so may've been just too early for my stuff...

Cpnt'l did issue a few engines in two different b/s, but only a few that I've found, so it's always possible there was a production change that never got into my parts catalogs...

Do your two motors have ID tags, or are you going by advice??

[PFindlay]

1 hour ago, Bud Tierney said:

 

Do your two motors have ID tags, or are you going by advice??

Here are the tags for the two motors I have.  The 6N is in my car and supposed to be original. (1915 Russell 30, Canadian built).  Several catalogs seem to list it as 3 1/2 x 5 1/4.  The reason for the confusion is that Russell advertising listed it as a 3 1/4 x 4 1/2 Continental.  It's possible that the 6N was a replacement installed later, but the only other known 1915 Russell 30 also has a 6N engine number.

 

So, I guess I will have to look inside to confirm b/s.  I'll be pleased if it is larger than the advertised engine.

 

Thanks for checking the numbers for me.

 

 

    

[Bud Tierney]

   Your 6N id definitly too early for my catalogs, except for a 1917 ring catalog which is no use for engine users...it did come in a 11915 Lexington model 6L, so it was issued here in the States...

    It also shares piston assembly and bearings (but not valves) with the 7N, which was a very popular engine here, my period catalogs having about 70 makes, cars and trucks, listed, and my catalogs are far from complete.

     No help on 7H, but if you get into looking for parts can advise what either or both 6N/7H might make search easier share piston assembly, valves, bearings with;

 

[Bud Tierney]

Uo may be lucky on the 6N...

While looking for something else unearthed a 24 catalog I'd misplaced...it says your 6N was also in the Jordan M, which my Std Cat shows as 1920-21...maybe tha Jorfan Club will have someone familiar with it...

[PFindlay]

Thanks for this extra bit of information.  Fortunately my 6N is complete and will run once I have gone all over it.  Then I'll determine if it needs further attention.

 

At this point I know the water pump needs attention so if there was a good one out there I'd buy it.  The 7H engine has a different water pump.

 

Peter