Packard Collectors

[Highlander160]

I guess it's hard to remove price from passion. Price can surely remove a collector's passion in a hurry. We've all heard the cliche's about money over the years and have known a few rare types who'd turn down serious dough for their cars. Sadly that evil dollar is a serious requirement to gain one's ultimate realization of their collector car dream.

Now that I got that outta my head let's look at a few things about the core topic. Serious collectors know what it takes to get there. Restoration, history, pedigree, all important elements. About 5 years back, give or take a year, I watched a junior Packard conv cpe sell for what I thought was almost stupid money on the Barrett-Jackson TV show. I had never seen a junior Packard go that high and thought the guy bought it "twice" in a manner of speaking. Whether we like it or not, most junior Packards get a junior restoration. That may sound insulting but I don't mean it that way. I would have liked to see that car up close and personal, to have "judged it" by a professional standard. It looked nice from afar, from a TV screen, but how nice was it? I did what could have been predicted by some, I got online and did some digging. I couldn't find anything even close to that number regardless of restoration quality. I still wonder about that perect storm, that anomoly that may have single-handedly bumped all of the lesser valued open juniors to serious money status.

To answer a previous question, most Super 8 and 12 Packards shared the same wheelbase and subsequent body/hood dimensions. Without raising my right hand to it and being indifferent to looking it up right now, I think all senior 37-39 Packards share the same dimesions, 8 or 12, with the differences being as obvious as they are subtle. 37 12 hoods are simply bitchin with their double stack vents as one example.

Earlier on, pre-35, there isn't really a feature on any model that's exclusive to the 12. Power brakes? Yup. Ride control? Check. Automatic shutters? Got em. Automatic choke? Sure. Automatic chassis lubrication? That too. Has this knowledge helped bring the value of an 8 to more serious levels or is it just that it's exclusively a senior model? Pre-35 there wasn't really a junior version with the exception of the 900. Informed "Packardites" recognize that the 900 frame layout paved the way to some of the most ultimate series and model platforms. A few 900s have been marketed to 6 figure status but that's rare, and sadly it really is more car than a 120. It may not perform with the 120 but it's still a lot of car for the money. So is an 8 from 33-4. The 1002 and 1101 cars have always been at the top of my list. I give the nod to the 1101 in every case though. Style, steering, balance, power, all 1101 IMO. My late mother was a woman of small stature. She could steer an 1101 with 1 hand. Take an 1101 with a painted shell, the right colors, the best body styles, in my book there's nothing better in the classic era. I've seen some pretty high figures being asked for those in select model varients. I say it's about time. As has already been spoken above, the cost of restoration is the same. True enough, 4 more cylinders and vibration damping bumpers will raise the ante big time, but the cost to "get there from here" in a professional shop isn't very different.

[ak]

Fellas, now is the time to get out and drive them. They are not getting more valuable. Drive your investment and enjoy the breeze, before you are too old to drive or before the genius in Congress eliminate gasoline that we can use. Drive 'em!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I followed ak's advice and logged around 75 - 100 miles of western CT backroads yesterday, not sure how to convert that into a cash equivalent dividend, though!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Highlander the 1101 is a great pick, I had the chance to drive one last year and it was very nice indeed, not "truckish" at all, I was hoping it would follow me home...

[1935Packard]

I think that prices for running, presentable Classic era cars are strong. One only has to look at Hemmings from 10 or more years ago to see how much higher prices are now than then. I have been reading a Hemmings from the mid 1980's and get attacked by tyhe "If only I had" on car after car.

It is fun to do this from time to time. Some cars double, some prices increase by 10 or more times, while some decline or remain the same.

One thing seems to always be true, quality is always a value, and the cheep is always too expensive.

It's critical to remember the role of inflation here, though. If a car did not appreciate at all since 1985, and merely maintained its value, a car that was worth $50,000 in 1985 would be worth $105,000 today. That doubling in face value does not indicate that the car is more valuable today: It just indicates that dollars today are worth about half of what they were worth in 1985.

Edited September 7, 2011 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Highlander160]

35Pack, that's very true. However, some of us haven't seen our wages go up with inflation this last time around. When you also consider some things that are desireable beyond cars that have deflated for one reason or another, a gain like that isn't all bad. I wonder how our public servants would feel about that $50K car selling for $100K+? Would they bang us with an income tax or a capital gain? That's actually a rhetorical question. I'd had for this topic to get political no matter how much it would apply. Sorry...

I know what I have is worth more in dollars over the short time I've had it. A lot more? Not really, but better than if I'd had it locked up in a 401K for the last 6yrs (!).

[Guest us1exports]

I collect Packards from the 30's. It sems like I see less and less of them on the road and at shows. Lately I have also seen lower prices for these fine automobiles. Some good prices on classics from the 30's and even at these lower prices, nice cars are not attracting buyers. Some speculate it is an aging group of collectors who own the vintage Packards and the hobby is not attracting enough new younger collectors who want the cars from the 20's and 30's. There are always exceptions but there seems to be a trend. Do others see these changes?

Thanks,

Bob

Hi , we received a Packard 1951 hearse in great condition , a rare piece for a collection . Maybe there is somebody interested because it is in excellent condition , not running now , at $22000 . If someone is interested in it please contact me for details and pictures at "us1exports@ciudad.com.ar"

Kind regards . Ricardo,

[harris speedster]

Guys,

Did Packard have or offer an electric or mechanical tachometer in the 1933-35 Packard's ?

If so, was it a Stewart warner instrument?

Last but not least, does anyone have, in any condition, a 1935 Packard water temp gauge they can part with?

Thanks,

John

[alsancle]

I don't believe a tach was offered until 1938.

[harris speedster]

Alsancle,

Truly appreciate your reply.

I had hoped that they did offer one from 33 thru 35.

Guess I need a Stewart Warner tach from the 33-35 era>> ANYBODY HAVE ONE IN ANY CONDITION ?

Last but not least, does anyone have, in any condition, a 1935 Packard water temp gauge they can part with?

Thanks,

John

217-734-9400

[West Peterson]

A tach was offered on the 1930 Speedster series. I know of one that has it.

I'm not so sure the tach was "offered" on the 1938-40 series. Wasn't it just a dealer device to show prospective customers the benefits of overdrive? Or was it offered as an option, too?

Edited March 29, 2014 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Wes, are you saying if was a dealer installed option? I have seen 3 installed in cars and another 2 sitting on shelves. Would the dealer only install in a demonstrator? This could be true as they are rare as hens teeth.

[Packard Don]

I'm not sure about that as I've seen several 1940 models with it, which replaced the glove box clock. It seemed a bit too good a match to the clock in the numbering, colors and design of the dial to have been a demo.

[alsancle]

The ones I have seen in cars are dead ringers for the clock only they are tachs.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Tach was definately available in '39, I suspect for all levels, replacing clock on glove box door. I am not sure how the drive for the tach would work with glove box as I assume mechanical and not electric but they were offered. I believe this is in the full line accy. catalog for '39 - I had one (catalog not tach, but I have seen at least one in a car) but sold it as we sold the Packard a while back.

Not sure why recent poster linked to this old thread which is more general in nature on price trends, etc. but it was kind of interesting to skim through it again a few years down the road. To my knowledge, the predictions of a huge price drop from a few years ago have yet come to pass, and I guess the current predictions may end up that way as well?

[alsancle]

Steve, there is a whole thread in the Packard forum on the tach as my dad has one in his Darrin and we have another sitting on the shelf. I posted pictures of the mechanical drive coming out of the generator. I think it is harder to find the generator drive than to find a tach.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Hey A.J. - I have also seen on more pedestrian Packards of the era. I confess that I totally missed the tach on your dad's car largely due to all of the other interesting elements aboard competing for attention such as carb and intake set up, etc. etc. and so on...

[Restorer32]

Tachometer Assembly part # 335909 for the 1700-1-1A-2, 1703-3A-5

[West Peterson]

I realize they are a dead-ringer replacement for the clock, and that it would have a Packard part #. I was just wondering if it was something a customer would have ordered, or if it was something simply ordered by dealers to demonstrate to customers the benefits of overdrive. But, if Steve says it was in the regular accessory catalog, then I guess customers were also given the option. It's not a very useful engine gauge, since it is mounted in front of the passenger and not the driver.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

West, while I cannot say with 100% certainty I can say with 90% certaintly that the tach appeared in the full line 1939 accy. catalog, I sold the peice to forum member "Packard Lover" I believe, perhaps he will confirm if he sees this.

[West Peterson]

The AACA Library has the Approved Packard Accessory for 1939 catalog. No mention of a tach.

Update: I think there may be two different accessory catalogs for 1939. One for 8 and one for 12. I think I got the info out of the 12. Will see if we have an 8. and also one for 1940.

Update 2: It turned out that the first catalog was for 1938. The 1939 accessory catalog was found, as was the 1940. Neither mention a tachometer.

I still suspect that it was an item ordered by the dealer (thus having a Packrd part #) to demonstrate the affects of overdrive to its customers. I'd be happy to eat crow, tho.

Edited April 4, 2014 by West Peterson (see edit history)