Riveras had fog light options?

[NCReatta]

91 92 93 BUICK RIVIERA REATTA HEADLIGHT FOGLIGHT SWITCH | eBay

Seller says that it came from a '91 Riviera with the "Rare for light option"..

Did Rivi's ever have fog lights? And in '91 I would've thought they would've put the fog light switch down in front of the shifter like the '91 Reattas..

[Jim]

I looked at the sellers other items and it is obvious what he is doing is going to junk yard, picking up parts and reselling them.

The switch pictured is not from a Riviera but a '90 Reatta switch. He may have taken it from a Riviera but all Rivs had the twilight sentinel feature and they never had fog lights.

Before paying the $ 250 he is asking please see my post in the buy/sell forum.

I have these for $ 65 exchange.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

It appears the seller is mistaken. It is clearly a 1990 Reatta light switch. The important thing is that the paper tamper seal remains unbroken. Mike and I both have received requests for wiring that burned up due to shorting out, overheating, so called, "rebuilt" switches.

[Guest Kingsley]

Steve - not that I would doubt anything you are Mike would say but I see some self motivation in your statement. It would nice to have some specifric names and documentation to support your statement.

I knlw these switches inside and out and the related schematics and I would buy one from Jim Finn with no hesitation.

Please no "He said, she said" but just facts to back it up.

[Jim]

It appears the seller is mistaken. It is clearly a 1990 Reatta light switch. The important thing is that the paper tamper seal remains unbroken. Mike and I both have received requests for wiring that burned up due to shorting out, overheating, so called, "rebuilt" switches.

Steve,

You bring this up about every three months and I explain with my electronic background what I do to these switches and that when I am done with them they are as good as new.

The following is taken from my post in the buy/sell forum.

"I disassemble them, clean all contacts, replace any worn or broken or missing parts, reassemble them with nice appearing buttons and then fully test them in my personal car."

I fail to see how this can cause problems but thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain what I do.

Jim

[Guest steveskyhawk]

My only motivation for sharing my experience on the light switch issue is to forewarn others regarding the tamper seal and possible hazards of a compromised switch. I currently have no 1990 light switches available at any price be they cheap or expensive because I only sell first rate parts.

If my Select 60 needed a light switch I certainly would not be looking for the cheapest switch I could find. On the contrary, I would be looking for the best switch I could find regardless of price. I don't want to try out Haggarty's comprehensive coverage.

[wws944]

Here are the four variations of the '90-'93 headlight switches that I have found. From left to right, Riviera base, Riviera/Reatta with T/S, Reatta with fog and braille, Reatta with fog and no braille:

[DAVES89]

I have talked to Jim on several occasions regarding the pricing of his parts and service. He puts a lot of pride in the service he offers others. He is far and away the best vendor on this site. He makes sure that all parts he sends are in good working order. As there are almost no NOS parts available some one must be rebuilding parts, and I trust that when Jim says something is good... it is. I have encouraged him to increase his prices as in my opinion he offers way to much for the price.

So far from what I have seen he has only increased his price on items that I have called and had him qoute on! lol

In my opinion we can do without vendors that might reside in Arizona and corrosion free So.Cal. but not Jim...

[reattadudes]

it's always amazing how this subject always heads down the same road, but here are the simple facts:

1) starting back in November of 2009, we received several calls for 1990 headlight switches and wiring. since we had never received calls for wiring, I asked each person what happened. all explained that they had bought "rebuilt" switches, and had problems like tail light fuses repeatedly blowing, and headlight switch failures, along with a burning smell, with resulted in the plug and wires melting.

2) there is no GM rebuild kits available for these switches.

3) the switch failed for a reason; it was worn out.

4) just like Humpty Dumpty, putting together a worn out switch that exploded will not be very effective, as all that's happening is the reassembly of worn-out parts, since no new ones are available.

we see no sense in looking at a bunch of worn-out parts, trying to ascertain which are the "best of the worst", and reassembling those, just to say we've accomplished something.

the vast majority of our customers are GM dealers, ASE certified shops, and owners who want the very best. they all want a part that works perfectly, looks absolutely like new, and has a guarantee.

this is why every single electrical part we sell, including instrument panel clusters, CRTs, CRT controllers, radios, CD players, antennas, ECMs, PCMs, BCMs, and EBCMs, and anything electrical (including light switches) comes with a two year unconditional warranty.

every single part.

does anyone else offer a warranty like that? what kind of warranty are YOU getting?

we purchased every single new aftermarket 1990 headlight switch in the US and Canada (over 300 switches) in the past nine years, and sold them all. we bought (and sold) the last five 1990 headlight switches, which we paid $834.20 each for, as this was the final GM list price.

we are certainly not trying to "corner" the 1990 headlight switch market, as we have precious few switches available now.

we have bought cars just to get the headlight switch. I do buy switches from outside sources, but only if the factory seals have not been broken.

when we get a 1990 headlight switch, the first thing I do is push the headlight switch at least 400 times in quick succession. if it sticks one time, it heads right to the trash can, where it belongs. I don't care if I paid $250 for it, it's still junk.

if there was a factory or aftermarket rebuild kit for these switches, my post wouldn't even be here.

since there isn't, I choose to defer to "all the King's horses, and all the King's men couldn't put GM part number 3523605 back together correctly again".

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[Jim]

when we get a 1990 headlight switch, the first thing I do is push the headlight switch at least 400 times in quick succession. if it sticks one time, it heads right to the trash can, where it belongs. I don't care if I paid $250 for it, it's still junk.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Mike,

You started your post by saying "here are the simple facts"

The facts are that you, by your own admission several times, are a "car salesman" Enough said about that.

Steve is an out of work pilot who scrounges junk yards and has posted he does not know much about electronics.

I do have an electronic background. 30 years in that industry.

I always enjoy your posts and what I really enjoy is your statistics. Like when you posted a few months ago that you were selling about 210 IPCs per year and the really high number of tops you are selling per month or one that I really got a laugh at was you posted a few years ago that your friend was selling about 20 ( guess as I don't remember exactly ) Chrysler TC tops per month. At that rate every TC would have had it's top replaced about 3 times.

A while back I was reading one of your statistics and had my wife read it and then my 12 year old grandson. I then asked him what he thought of those numbers and he replied that it must have been an error.

I just took a headlight switch and operated it and released it and it took about 3 seconds to do this. 3 seconds times 400 is 1200 seconds. 1200 seconds is 20 minutes. Where do you find the time?

Are you telling us you spent 20 minutes operating and releasing a headlight switch? Did you have it in a car or just in your hand? You said you throw it away if if fails once. Maybe that one failure in the 20 test minutes was because your finger got tired and you didn't press hard enough and then you threw away a $ 250 switch. If it was in your hand that doesn't tell us if it actually worked and if it was in a car the total test time would have to be maybe 8 seconds per operation so you can see if the headlight open, the high beams change to low beams, the tail lights work and the interior lights come on and dim.

These are some the tests I do when I reassemble a switch and thank you to the folks who posted saying they are very happy with the parts and service they get from me.

I am adding this actually after posts 11 and 12.

I had to run to the Post Office and then thought I would add this----

I received an email from you back in 2003 and you stated in part----------

"this business is certainly not a hobby for us, or something we do to kill

time. our facility now sits on fifteen acres, with all inventory contained

within a 10,000 square foot, climate-controlled building. as our inventory

increases, we will expand the building. at the present time, we have almost $700,000

($682,000 to be exact) invested in property, fixtures, and inventory. we

will be adding electric lifts, at a cost of $2200 each, within the next six

months, to allow us to double our stocking capacity within the present building's

size."

I think you were in business for a year or so before that.

I have been selling parts since about 1999.

For all these years there has been very little controversy. You have run your business your way and I did mine as sort of a hobby.

Everybody got along pretty good. About a year ago you sent someone to me who was looking for a part and on occasion I have given out your name. We got along OK.

What has changed?

The last year or two we have had an agitator among us. Someone who likes to start controversy and then let the chips fall where they may. That persons reputation is in the tank and maybe is dragging others down with him.

I am not naming names but if I had a friend like that I would ask him to think before he writes.

Again, if you can get big money for your parts, go for it and I wish you well. I will continue to help out those who maybe cannot afford the high quality items.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Jim (see edit history)

[reattadudes]

Jim,

just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

when my first ad in Hemmings broke on March 6, 2002, I had six customers by the end of the first day. about ten minutes ago, I wrote an order for customer number 6,804 (windshield gaskets going to a glass shop in South Carolina). of that total, over 4,400 are still active customers.

at any given time, many of those 4,400 will need parts, in addition to new customers, which average about 20 per week.

as far as switch pushing goes, I usually do it at night while watching television. I let my record speak for itself; I've not ever had one headlight switch failure on any warranted switch.

I'm sorry if you have a hard time wrapping your mind around the number of things we sell, like tops or leather packages. we sell what we sell, and I fail to see a benefit in exaggeration.

I rarely write any posts for the benefit of the fewer than 20 regular posters here, instead choosing to write to the thousands of "lurkers" who read this forum frequently.

I've had fewer posts here in the forum in the past 9+ years than some have in six months; I don't bother to let folks know when there's a Chili's free coupon online, or a sale at Harbor Freight on some fine made-in-China tools. I prefer to post when something is important, and try to keep the cutsey icons to a minimum.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[Jim]

Jim,

I wrote an order for customer number 6,804 (windshield gaskets going to a glass shop in South Carolina)

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

OK we have beat the headlight switch controversy again and gotten no where. You like to sell parts to high rollers and I like to do a service.

Moving forward and changing topics.

You posted you sold windshield gaskets. I was under the assumption that the windshield did not have gaskets but the outer trim is bonded to the glass and that is just a trim. The glass is urethane glued to the body providing the seal.

Were you referring to the strips on the side of the glass or have you figured out something to make the trim around the glass look nicer?

[Guest Recian]

back to the original reason for this post, will the 90 switch work in the 88-89s? Seeing as they had 3 buttons for lights and used push type metal rods inside that turned them on and only turned off with a particular button. Ive had all 3 of mine apart and m having trouble finding a good 88-89 switch. Any alternatives? My first switch was fried and it melted the connector. I replaced it and the switch i pulled from the junkyard worked for about 3 days and the cruise started being intermittent. The yellow light would work sometimes and the new one I bought on ebay when you hit cruise it flashes a red light and turns the blinkers on... i didnt even know the cruise light could illuminate red!

[KDirk]

Recian,

The 1990 switch will not work in 88 or 89. Two completely different animals, and there is very little commonality to the interior parts and electronics in particular of the 88/89 cars versus the 90/91 cars. Save for the seats, rear storage deck, rear quarter trim and headliner, almost everything is at least a bit (if not a lot) different.

KDirk

[Guest Recian]

i kinda thought so since hazards and cruise are on that switch

[Booreatta]

Steve - not that I would doubt anything you are Mike would say but I see some self motivation in your statement. It would nice to have some specifric names and documentation to support your statement.

I knlw these switches inside and out and the related schematics and I would buy one from Jim Finn with no hesitation.

Please no "He said, she said" but just facts to back it up.

Hey guys I totally agree with Kingsley on this. I served notice to everyone that when statements were made on this site I would ask for names and places to verify the statements. I am again asking for information on anyone who has had a headlight switch that was repaired and to cause a fire issue to contact me as I am collecting data on several issues. When I talked to Mike he agreed with me that we need to put forward true facts. Its time to do that. I am sure that anyone who has had an issue would not want to hide a safety issue for everybody else. Lets step up and get this one solved

Thanks

Chuck Kerls

booreatta@cox.net

316-655-1099

[NCReatta]

Recian,

I think your switch that has the cruise button that flashes red and turns the hazards on has had the buttons switched around on it.

[KDirk]

Marck is right. Sounds like someone had that switch apart and reassembled it incorrectly. The bottom most button on an 88/89 is the HAZARD button, this is the only one with a red LED. Right above that (2nd from bottom) is the CRUISE button, this has an amber LED when it is on. If that is all that is wrong with the switch, it can be popped open and reassembled correctly.

KDirk

[padgett]

I deal extensively with computer security (viruses and such) and when something new is discovered, the first thing that is done is the affected vendor is notified, often with a suggested fix. They are then allowed to make a public announcement and distribute the patch. It is only if the vendor refuses to address the issue that a public announcement is made (not all researchers follow this model but it seems appropriate to me unless there is just no time. In that case I use a telephone).

This is a much smaller and more specialized group however what I have seen is statements of failure with no follow-up. Was the rebuilder identified and informed ? What did they do ?

Was the wiring problem what caused the failure of the original switch or did the new switch cause it ?

Jim has responded but there was nothing to say they were his switches that failed.

It is part of the segmentation of the hobby that is happening. There is one group willing to pay for unmolested original switches with excellent appearance. My experience is that these people rarely frequent a forum like this. There is a second group that is more concerned with keeping their cars on the road but prefer not to install toggle switches. Then there are those who will try to fix their own and ask for help. Finally some will just dispose of the car.

Point I am making is that there are several markets being served here, not just one. We may get to the point of just removing all of the guts and replacing with three microswitches and keeping only the front panel & panel light dimmer plus adding a "late 90" additional relay. This I have not seen yet but is an alternative to repair.

One thing I am curious about is were the ones that failed, late 90 (braille) switches installed on early 90 (no relay) cars ? Could the later ones have been designed to be "light duty" ? YWTK

[Guest Kingsley]

My take on this and I stand to be corrected as I critique certain '90 headight switch testing raises some interesting thoughts. Working on the assumption that the 400 actions are not done in the car in the twilight of the evening, if the headlight button passes, does the test extent to the panel and foglight buttons? What test is done to the sliding potentionometer for the panel lights?

Pressing the switch on and off, if not performed where the lighting of the bulbs can be seen, is testing only, in the vernacular o the switch trade, the latching and unlatching function of the switch. This in itself is a piece of work and is performed by a small circular disc (about 1/4" in OD) working within an unusual recess in a molded pats of the switch. This applies, identically, in the three press to activate buttons.

If the 400 presses apply only to the headlight button, there remains an additional400 presses to be done on the panel and foglight buttons. It is true that pressing the headlight button does activate the parking light switch but the parking function can be used by itself.

In the case at hand, and assuming that the latching mechanism on the headlight function is ok, what further testing is done? What about the slider?

All of this raises some issues. There are cerrtainly some electronic experts on the Forum far ahead of me and perhaps they would like to comment and correct me as I want to be correct in my understanding.

Padgett is enirely correct in his comment about the possible involvement of the latest switch technology in the '90 switches. Latest techology switches combined with new PCBs and new, unscarred buttons would indeed make a nice switches but it's cost would be high and as long as Jim Finn repairs them as well as he does and is so cost effective he is the way to go!

[Guest curtislt]

Jim,

just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

when my first ad in Hemmings broke on March 6, 2002, I had six customers by the end of the first day. about ten minutes ago, I wrote an order for customer number 6,804 (windshield gaskets going to a glass shop in South Carolina). of that total, over 4,400 are still active customers.

at any given time, many of those 4,400 will need parts, in addition to new customers, which average about 20 per week.

as far as switch pushing goes, I usually do it at night while watching television. I let my record speak for itself; I've not ever had one headlight switch failure on any warranted switch.

I'm sorry if you have a hard time wrapping your mind around the number of things we sell, like tops or leather packages. we sell what we sell, and I fail to see a benefit in exaggeration.

I rarely write any posts for the benefit of the fewer than 20 regular posters here, instead choosing to write to the thousands of "lurkers" who read this forum frequently.

I've had fewer posts here in the forum in the past 9+ years than some have in six months; I don't bother to let folks know when there's a Chili's free coupon online, or a sale at Harbor Freight on some fine made-in-China tools. I prefer to post when something is important, and try to keep the cutsey icons to a minimum.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Hey Mike,

Since you're doing so well, maybe you'd like to pay the balance on the Convertible Prototype I sold you nearly a decade ago!

Hope to hear from you soon,

Curt

curtislt1@gmail.com

[Guest Richard D]

I truly wish the both Mike and Steve would stop using this forum to bad mouth someone else's work. It does not belong here. You gentlemen are entitled to your personal opinions but there is no need to post them. That's what PMs are for if you feel so strongly about the quality of Jim's work send the poster a PM.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Richard.

[Peter Gariepy]

Your Moderator Speaking...

One and only warming.

Stop the personal attacks and childish behavior... or you will be banned for a month. If it happens again. You'll be banned for a good.

Peter