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Open versus Closed


Restorer32

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Had too much time to think over the long holiday weekend. How many cars can we name where the open version is more highly valued than the open version of the same car. Mercedes Gull Wing comes immediately to mind. Maybe a split window Vette? Others?

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Triumph TR3A and TR4. The closed versions were all coachbuilt specials that are very rare made by Chambroise and Dove respectively.

Austin-Healey closed versions were all specialized racing versions, as were the A.C. Cobra Daytonas (which may be the most extreme example of the more expensive closed car version). Ditto for the LeMans Triumph Spitfies.

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Or possibly first generation Mustang fastback - I think it at least rivals convertible prices if not beats them?

For you MG fans what about a prewar "airline" coupe? Much rarer and more valuable than the TA roadsters for example?

All Henry '32 Ford 3 Window coupe vs. Roadster

This is the right group to come up with some obscure answers but I dare say this will be a pretty short list. Great thread idea!

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Guest bkazmer

Alfa Giulietta Spider vs Zagato coupe? A non-standard vs factory body feels like cheating though.

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The "Twenty Grand" Duesenberg sedan would sell for more than a comparable open Duesy.

The 1933 Pierce Silver Arrow sedan would sell for more than ust about any open Pierce out there, regardless of year.

On the lighter side, a 1911 Hupmobile coupe would probably sell for more than a 1911open runabout, only because there are just a handful of them out there, and the runabouts seem to be in every other collection.

The split window Corvette has already been mentioned, it's a given.

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The "Twenty Grand" Duesenberg sedan would sell for more than a comparable open Duesy.

The 1933 Pierce Silver Arrow sedan would sell for more than ust about any open Pierce out there, regardless of year.

On the lighter side, a 1911 Hupmobile coupe would probably sell for more than a 1911open runabout, only because there are just a handful of them out there, and the runabouts seem to be in every other collection.

The split window Corvette has already been mentioned, it's a given.

I don't think that Pierce Arrow made a Silver Arrow convertible or roadster, did they?

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The "Twenty Grand" Duesenberg sedan would sell for more than a comparable open Duesy.

There may be a lot of people unaware of the Duesenberg body style that is considered the open version of the 20 Grand (Arlington sedan). It would be the torpedo phaeton (one Brunn, two Weymanns, and two Walkers built). There are three originals still existing. Both the torpedo and the Arlington sedan were designed by Gordon Buehrig.

You are probably right in stating the 20 Grand would be worth more, but since none of the original torpedos nor the 20 Grand have exchanged hands in forever, it is purely conjecture at this point. I suspect that because the torpedo has been replicated, that would bring down the value (or desirability versus the Arlington) of the originals to some degree.

I'd be interested in hearing opinions on this from other knowledgable Duesenberg experts.

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The Crosley pre war wooden station wagons and the Liberty Sedan (first steel topped Crosley) carry a higher value than the convertable coupes or convertable sedans. Not the same level as West's Duesenbergs but I love them just the same!!!

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I think "Auburn Seeker" hit a home run! That blanket statement does cover a lot of vehicles and is certainly true of most of the prewar examples I can think of. (But not say, Chrysler T&C, right?)

West, not a Duesenberg expert but what about the Derham Tourster bodies? These were open cars in final form, but as I understand it built to Buehrig's design using closed car techniques, and they are like tanks.

Maybe for another thread but what is the most valuable Duesenberg? The Twenty grand?? I think that has been duplicated also, as an unfinished project was for sale on this sight some time back.

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I'm not aware of any closed cars that would be considered the "sister" car to the Durham Tourster.

The most valueable Duesenbergs, in my opinion, are the Mormon Meteor, the SSJ's (make mine the one without the funny-looking tires), the 20 Grand, and the "last" Duesenberg, the Bauer convertible sedan. Not necessarily in that order.

I'd be interested in more detail on which woody wagons are worth more than the woody convertible counterparts. I'm not saying it's not so, just curious.

Thanks.

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West, I thought the build process on the Tourster was interesting, but no doubt it is an open car and I do not think the design included any closed versions.

Jr. Packards and just about any '35 - '42 Ford comes to mind immeidately where the wagon would be more valuable than the open cars. Close to double in some cases with the Fords - question for the woody buyer is, is it temporary.

BTW - BW tires on an SSJ is fine with me...

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Plus wouldn't the argument be that being part of a series would be comparable. For example, choosing between a Packard 110 touring sedan, roadster or wagon is not the same as choosing between a standard catalog choice and a custom bodied Sr. car.

I even think pristine early 50s wagons are now competitive with convertible prices - thinking of Ford products through '53 or '54 and Chevys of the same vintage?

Incidently, BWW look good on woodies also West, but I will go with WWW on the flashier convertible...

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On the last Duesenberg, the Bauer car, I first saw it when it was sitting in a warehouse in Louisa, Virginia, owned then my Bill Pettit. My first thought was, wow, what an ugly Duesenberg. Bauer may have been a great artist, but that car, in my humble opinion, wasn't a good exercise in car styling.

I didn't inspect it for long, as there were 99 other cars in the same warehouse.......

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I'm not aware of any closed cars that would be considered the "sister" car to the Durham Tourster.

The most valueable Duesenbergs, in my opinion, are the Mormon Meteor, the SSJ's (make mine the one without the funny-looking tires), the 20 Grand, and the "last" Duesenberg, the Bauer convertible sedan. Not necessarily in that order.

I agree on the first 3-4. I think it would go something like (although I could see the twenty grand bringing more than the 2 SSJs)

1. MM

2. SSJ 1 & 2

3. 20 Grand

4. Maharah SJ

And then a group that would be hard to determine including the Bauer Car, the Walker Coupe, Walker-LeGrand Roadsters, SJN Rollston, B&S Mars Town car, Weymann Speedster, Garbo car

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The Viper was mentioned earlier.

I think we DO need to keep the list short, or it really doesn't make much sense. When stating that a woody station wagon is worth more than a convertible from the same year, that's comparting apples with oranges. When saying a split-window Corvette is worth more than a same-year convertible, that's a comparison (the Viper is also a good comparison, or Cobra, etc.). My opinion.

The Bauer Duesenberg would be strikingly beautiful IF...

1. it had a normal grille, or at least something different than that of a truck.

2. it had long swooping front fenders.

Al

Your comment on the value of two SSJ's for one 20 Grand (I mistakenly called it an Arlington sedan, when in fact it's a torpedo sedan) is interesting. We'll probably never know in our lifetime, but it would be interesting to know. I think it's a stretch. (Interestingly enough, while the 20 Grand was one of the most expensive Duesenbergs, the two SSJ's were the least expensive... by far. Randy Ema once told me that the bodies for those two cars cost something like five-hundred bucks. But, like in the cases of Porsche Speedsters vs cabriolets, original prices don't always hold weight in the collector car world.)

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So West what you are saying is the comparison is only valid if it is an identical model (not a model within a single series as I described above) the only difference being open or closed version. If that is the case that lets out all wagon comparisons, right?

Splitting hairs but part of the fun... ;)

Never understood the grille treatment on Bauer D - I suppose it was to "update" it...

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