ralphnof49 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I know there have been posts on this before which relate coil failure as the cause. My 47 problem is that the starter will hardly turn the engine over when hot- and not even after a very long run and not hot oudoor temp- about 4 miles is enough. Then it takes over one half hour to turn over enough to start. I tried to add amps with a booster battry but it did not help. Afte overnight cool down it starts with the first or second revolution of the engine. I suspect starter failure may be happenning as this problem is not new, now it takes longer to cool down enough to start. Initially I thought it might be the rebuit engine being harder to turn when warm, but now it has over 1000 miles on it, so it does not seem likely. I would appreciate advice on this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Check your battery cables. If a 6 volt system, the cables must be rated for 6 volt (larger than 12 volt) to be able to carry the amps to the starter. When the cables get hot the amps are further slowed down......Starter failure is, of course, always a possibility, have someone rebuild it with all new bushings/bearings to assure it's not "dragging..."Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thanks for the ideas. The cables are 3/8 in diameter copper not including the insulation and they don't feel hot if that is a good test. I think I will have to have the starter rebuilt. You have a nice collection of cars. We also have a 1969 442 convertible and a 1961 corvette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Update- I had the starter checked out and the tech says it is OK. When I removed it I checked the cables and the old cable from the solenoid to the starter was getting corrosion build up at the ends. The others I had replaced with #1 gauge and were good. I have now replaced the remaining cable with #1 gaugeand hopefully all will be good when I get the starter home and installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peecher Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 You might also want to remove any paint/corrosion from the area where the starter bolt to the pan. this will assure a good ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startergenrebuilder Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 ralphnof49,If you check your cables, battery and still have problems let me know. The shop you took your starter to may have just done a quick free-run test and took a quick peek inside. I see this a lot, the starter really should be load tested. A lot of times when customers complain of hot cranking issues, I replace the field coils with a high torque set and they are amazed at the difference. Combine that with a thorough de-greasing, baking and re-varnish of the armature, new brushes, tight bushings and the starter will perform better than ever. Let me know if I can help you out in any way. Check the cables and make sure you have a strong battery first though.JasonAdvanced Electrical RebuildersAdvanced Electrical Rebuilders - Antique Auto - Marine - Agricultural - Industrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken/Alabama Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 It could be the starter solenoid. They get burned and pitted inside and build a high resistance . The starter has to work a little harder when the engine is hot and that extra load on the soleniod could be the problem. Happend to me once on my Ford,same symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Thanks for the input. I replaced the cable and the starter performs better but not great. The starter inspection was visual, so there still could be a problem. The battery is 2 years old and is a strong model made for diesel engines. I measured the voltage when cranking hot and it drops to 4.4, but I'm not sure what it should be. The battery is at 6.37. I will check or replace the solenoid as it may be causing resistence. A starter rebuild may still be needed as suggested to create sronger field coils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 There has to be a solution. A lot of people say the 6 volt system is worthless, but it started cars for many a year.I don't think a visual inspection on the starter is sufficient, a rebuild is the way I'd go, there are all sorts of things that could be wrong, from bushing wear to winding shorts.Thanks for compliment on collection, not all show cars and some projects, but lots of fun. The result of over 40 years of buying, then selling to get something better..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K. Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 With a search you will see my posts this last year with the same slow cranking problem. As Phil Knapp says: " you need cables that are as thick as your thumb" I had #1 GA. cables from NAPA and NO-GO even with an Optima battery. Had a local battery shop make a set of cables in #00 gauge. ( Not #0 gauge) Always cranks now even when hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 Thanks Paul, I found the previous posts and may well have to go for bigger cables. I will check to see where I can get some made up. I have had the battery checked out and am not happy about it now. I have no resistance with an ohm meter in the cables which is good but doesn't tell how much current they can handle. I do have a cut off swithch in the circuit and will have to see if it is better with it out of the picture. I have replaced the solenoid too. I am getting good charge from the generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B1rdman Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 did it ever start ok in the past ????????if so i dont see how you would need bigger cablesgene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K. Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) You're right a resistance test will show good even if there is only one strand of wire left. A voltage drop test is what you need to do. On a 12 volt system you want less than .5 volts drop on the circuit when cranking. I would think a 6 volt system would be a little less allowance, I am just guessing but maybe less than .3 volts allowable drop. If the voltage drop is high at all points in the circuit, then you know that you just have cables too small. Gene brings up a good point about starting good in the past. That is what confused me on my car. It had fairly new NAPA 1 GA. cables. The owner of the car who I never met owned it since '54 and did all his own work. I just assumed he went through this before and the 1GA. cables were good to use. Newer 1GA. cables improved the situation but still had problems when hot. Now with the #00 GA. it's fine. Some may think #00 is overkill, but when I compared them against #0 gauge those were not much bigger than the #1 GA. I had. The #00 GA. actually look like the old #0 GA. Edited June 12, 2011 by Paul K. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 This weekend we drove to a show about 30 miles a way. The starting was better than before but still not tuning over enough when hot. This has been a problem since the engien was rebuilt, but I thought at first it was just a tight engine and woul dget better. Before the rebuild I did not drive the car as it had no interior. i don't have bigger cables yet as I haven't found any locally or even large connector ends to use. Still looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphnof49 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I replaced the cables with 00 from Narragansett and also removed the cut off switch and replaced it with one on the battery post. Now it starts fine when hot. I tried the cut off switch, which is a good one with high amp capacity and connected it with 00 cable from a welding supply, but it did not work very well. A happy ending and thanks to all who helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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