MarkV Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 So, I came up with an idea for Car show judging, I have not seen it done, it would be called the 'endurance test' this would include idling for 20-30 min. drive around the block to test tightness and agility. A mechanical test of all components would also be included. Most cars may look great but, many run badly or barely, and I think it would be a great part of the judging, because a car is there to drive not to sit in a trailer or garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Wouldn't the idea be a bit more simplified by simply requiring all cars to be judged be driven to the event or driven around some sort of course after having officially registered or checked in for the event? The 20 minute or so idle idea is not really all that good as so many early cars had severe issues with proper cooling if not moving sufficiently to provide good airflow across the radiator. Simple 4 blade fans just don't cut it for most pre 1950s cars which were not designed for prolonged traffic jambs later a normal, but not well accepted, part of commuter driving.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 So, I came up with an idea for Car show judging, I have not seen it done, it would be called the 'endurance test' this would include idling for 20-30 min. drive around the block to test tightness and agility. A mechanical test of all components would also be included. Most cars may look great but, many run badly or barely, and I think it would be a great part of the judging, because a car is there to drive not to sit in a trailer or garage!The AACA already has that judging system. Join the AACA, pre-register for an AACA National Tour, then you will have a chance to show everyone how pretty your car is, how well it starts each morning, and how well it accelerates from stop lights, and in passing cars. Believe me when I say, this is an endurance text. If you have been following the web site for a few years, you will see how many times my cars have failed the test, just recently on the Divisional Tour in Wilmington, NC. The shame of having to call the hookman!:eek:Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Great idea. Lets do a compression and leak down test too. While they are idling a pressure check of the auto transmissions would be easy enough along with a quick charging system look over (gotta be sure those volts and amps are "original"). While they are being driven a simple dynomometer could be set up on the field just to make sure they are up to snuff. Follow that by a quick king pin and front alignment check and you would have all those trailer queens that can barely back out of a trailer under their own power shown up for what they are.......Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 RW- I am already a member! Have not been to a show yet as many are back east! Did not know about that level of judging at AACA! Jim- My '21 and '41 and '48 all can run for 20 min. without a problem I keep the radiators in good shape and put coolant in and they are fine! Bhigdog- Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest quadfins Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 This sounds like what many Marque clubs do. I know that in the Cadillac-LaSalle club grand nationals, all of the components are tested for operational ability. It is not just a beauty contest.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 1948 Lincoln,There is an easy solution to you not having had the opportunity to attend an AACA National Meet. You should join (if not already a member) one of the following California Regions. Then you and your fellow California Members can volunteer to host a Meet in your home town. CALIFORNIAAntelope Valley RegionPresident - John Knapp4737 West Ave. M-8Quartz Hill CA 93536Cabrillo RegionPresident - David Willoughby403 Ventana WayAptos CA 95003 California RegionPresident - Paul Bittner55 Paso Nogal CtPleasant Hill CA 94523-1700 Cam Twisters of Fresno RegionPresident - Butch Burgess6137 N Channing CircleFresno CA 93711 Fallbrook Vintage Car Club RegionPresident - Roy MoosaPO Box 2332Fallbrook CA 92088 Foothills RegionPresident - Vera Masters3160 Humbolt AveSanta Clara CA 95051-3747 Golden Gate RegionPresident - Sharon Sagar92 Ridge RdFairfax CA 94930-1921 Inland Empire/Palm Springs RegionPresident - Bill Rothenbuhler1436 Pine Valley RdBanning CA 92220-5454 Kern County RegionPresident - John Bakich10806 Enger StBakersfield CA 93312-3268 Mid-Valley Historical Auto ClubPresident - Lee Rose1423 Upland DrYuba City CA 95991 Modesto Central Valley RegionPresident - David JolliffPO Box 3515Modesto CA 95352-3515 Mother Lode RegionPresident - Diantha PotterPO Box 323Columbia CA 95310-0323 Mount Konocti RegionPresident - Ray Perry10192 Del Monte WayKelseyville CA 95451 Rancho Tehama Yolla Bolly RegionPresident - Melvin McNeillPO Box 5327Corning CA 96021-5327 Redwood Empire RegionPresident - Patricia Dearmin5116 Oak Park WaySanta Rosa CA 95409-3740 Salinas Valley RegionPresident - Leslie Earnest1113 San Ysidro WaySalinas CA 93901 San Diego RegionPresident - Dr Susan Woods8370 Onalaska AveSan Diego CA 92123-2827 San Luis Obispo RegionPresident - John Osborne4240 Rancho RdTempleton CA 93465-9621 Santa Barbara RegionPresident - Dana Newquist605 Juan Crespi LnSanta Barbara CA 93108 Santa Clarita Valley RegionPresident - Tom Edgington27918 N Newbird DriveSaugus CA 91350-1937 Southern California RegionPresident - Robert Pritchard648 N Wilcox AveLos Angeles CA 90004 Southwestern Two-Wheelers RegionPresident - Harry McGill1261 Emory StImperial Beach CA 91932-3325 Sun 'n Sand RegionPresident - C BaltzarPO Box 1331Palm Desert CA 92261-1331Valle Del Sur RegionPresident - Russ Carr13400 Center AveSan Martin CA 95046 Valley Of The Flowers RegionPresident - Richard Alexander617 No. 8th StLompoc CA 93436 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I remember once taking a Sears Autobuggy to the Petit Jean mountain meet. The car had been restored to beautiful condition, and was an AACA first place (this was mid-1980's).The fellow who restored it, David Stewart of Longview, Texas, had a little 1911 or 12 Buick runabout there, an older so-so restoration.The judging consisted of the team of judges standing in front of a grandstand. You'd drive your vehicle up, stop while it was still running, and they'd judge the car in about 2 minutes.It ended up being "good old boy" judging. They knew who David was, they didn't know me, nor did they know that my Sears had been restored by him.He took first place with his Buick, and my Sears took second place, in the class.He was hopping mad, and the judges didn't understand why, shucks, he had a first place trophy.........So, there's a way to judge while the car's running... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 (edited) Actually, except for a few very specialized entrants every car is required to enter the show field at an AACA event under it's own power. The trailer parking at most events is not "on the field" and at many events is several miles away by regular roads. I really don't see what requiring a car to do few circles around a course and that it could idle for 30 minutes would prove. The very fact that it's on the field is proof of it's functionallity. Carried to it's logical extreme would require every "winner" to submit to a tear down inspection. Kind of like requiring the winner of the Miss America pagent to be examined. After all it is the "Miss" America pagent.And what's with the hand wringing over cars that are trailered anyway. Some guys get more out of preserving their beauties than driving them. Personally I have both pampered Queens and drivers. FWIW my 1939 Chevy truck that I've driven to breakfast most nice mornings for 12 years just got it's Senior at Blacksburg. Does that make it somehow more deserving than my pampered "Queens"? I don't think so..................Bob Edited May 17, 2011 by Steve Moskowitz several complaints from our female readers (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billybird Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The Early Ford V-8 Club requires something similar. It's called an operational check and is done prior to the concourse judjing. There is also a sperate sheet for this. One of my cars is a "trailer queen" and I would be confident in its ability to go coast to coast. When I restored the car I knew I would be showing more than just AACA and did'nt cut any corners. I do exercise the car regularly. I think something Bhigdog said is the key - enjoy- Enjoy the hobby ever how you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Great idea. Lets do a compression and leak down test too. While they are idling a pressure check of the auto transmissions would be easy enough along with a quick charging system look over (gotta be sure those volts and amps are "original"). While they are being driven a simple dynomometer could be set up on the field just to make sure they are up to snuff. Follow that by a quick king pin and front alignment check and you would have all those trailer queens that can barely back out of a trailer under their own power shown up for what they are.......BobDon’t forget to infared the coolant temperature to make sure it is warmed up and the system can handle pressure. We don’t want any of those nasty trailer and garage queens to slip through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE A Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Well, I'm out on this one. If you let my DPC Crosley Hotshot sit at idle for 30 minutes, I'm not sure it will last. The car is designed to move, as there is no grille and radiator cooling is provided by an air scoop below the front bumper that channels air from the moving car back to it. As far as leak testing, we have a saying in the Crosley club...."Crosleys leak, GET USED TO IT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I just keep thinking about what happened at Hershey not that long ago with vehicles having to idle for so long trying to get onto the show field. Many overheated and had other issues.I don't think many will want to do that on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) I just keep thinking about what happened at Hershey not that long ago with vehicles having to idle for so long trying to get onto the show field. Many overheated and had other issues.I don't think many will want to do that on purpose. Susan: I believe that was the point of the post, weed out those vehicles that are considered trailer queens, aren’t regularly driven and mechanically may not up to snuff. Quote: “Most cars may look great but, many run badly or barely, and I think it would be a great part of the judging, because a car is there to drive not to sit in a trailer or garage.”In ones opinion, if you don’t drive them “most” queens won’t be functional as a vehicle, only in the beauty department. I personally have found the total opposite, that “most” queens are good runners. Edited May 18, 2011 by Ron Green (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambarn Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 And the fantastic news is..... there is a test for vehicle durability and driveability that is AACA sanctioned and allows for a true test of a car be it trailer queen or barn find. It's called touring. As far as a thirty minute idle, cars weren't designed to do that before we built interstates and crammed them full of commuters. I would doubt the ability of any of my pre war cars to do that. All are great runners, all are tour ready and I would drive them any where I could but to idle for half an hour....really? A thirty minute idle is 29 minutes late to turn off the ignition and wait for traffic to clear up. I'll take the 400 point judging system for shows and to test my car, my way, I'll drive them. The beautiful thing about this hobby and this club is that no matter how you enjoy your car, there's something out there for you, go enjoy and quit worrying about how to judge someone else's enjoyment. As the noted bards Fleetwood Mac said.....You can go your own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 A slow drive from the trailer to the showing field is not necessarily a guarantee of driveability...I've known more than a few trailer-queens that look terrific, and idle nicely, but cannot get out on the road for any real driving due to fuel or cooling system issues...There was a gorgeous '30-'31 Buick Roadster at one of the local AACA events last year that fell into this category... I believe the car overheated twice and had to pull-over on the less than 10 mile drive to the show field.That said, a field full of cars idling for 20-30 minutes each is not really healthy for the environment or the people involved.My personal opinion is more or less: "pretty is nice, but if it doesn't function, then it might as well be a bronze bust or an oil-painting: static art-work."My favorite AACA class is HPOF. Great to see cars that are 50 to 100 years old ( or more ), still functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 A slow drive from the trailer to the showing field is not necessarily a guarantee of driveability...I've known more than a few trailer-queens that look terrific, and idle nicely, but cannot get out on the road for any real driving due to fuel or cooling system issues...I have had to stop and help my share of “drivers” on the way to and from a show. So I guess we could continue discussing how many “queens” verses “drivers” are susceptible to breakdowns however it is all hypothetical. I sure we all have better things to do like work on our cars.Personally we trailered both queens and drivers well over 4,000 miles last year attending meets as much as 900 miles one way. In either case we unloaded and enjoyed them and I didn’t have to worry about breakdowns, getting killed driving 40 MPH on an interstate, or wearing out rare parts. The hobby is big enough for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lichtfel Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I was a judge in the AACA back in the 50's. Some of the early cars were brought in on a trailer, rolled off and pushed a few feet to to their area to be judged. These cars were beautiful but they didn't run. They never restored them to run. Nothing greased, no oil just spic and span beautiful. And we had to judge them. That's when we didn't knock off points for oil and grease but did knock off points for over restoration. At the next meet they had to drive from the show field to the judging area in order to get judged. You should have heard the complaints then. The judging today in the AACA is really goodalthough I'm still against the hand rubbed undercarriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92GTA Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 No way I would idle my '56 for that long just because of being a solid lifter/flat tappet cam and the cam won't get enough oil splash without sufficient RPM to sling the oil off the crank shaft. Great way to ruin a vintage engine.Just saying. There are technical reasons for doing things a certain way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Whittington Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 92 GTA, if you do a NCRS Performance Verification, your car will have to idle for close to 10 minutes while operations are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92GTA Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 92 GTA, if you do a NCRS Performance Verification, your car will have to idle for close to 10 minutes while operations are done.True but the 20-30mins mentioned is just too long IMO. I could also overfill my crankcase with oil a bit so the crank can grab more oil to sling. I also think 10mins right from cold start would be ok since the high idle cam will hold after the choke until the throttle is blipped which will also help lube the cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 :DLink,I think you have a ex. idea. The club could buy a good stop watch and YOU I say again YOU could time all 1200--1500 cars at Hershey.:D LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rd1937 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 If you want to drive your car-drive it----If you want it on a pedestal put it up there. Quit worrying about what I choose to do with my stuff!Then when you're done with this campaign why not go down to your local stamp club...Talk them into mailing their stamps across country--After all that's what they were made for--Not just for looking at! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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