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1926 Dodge Brothers Doodlebug


jari12
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20 minutes ago, Mattml430 said:

You might find they called the top colour all of the body and the guards and sill the bottom colour. 
I’ve never seen one in three colours. 

 

 

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the response.  I have been collecting as many DB roadster pictures as I can find for a few years now.  I went back through them after my post last night and found the picture below.  It is a two tone body with the typical black fenders etc.  It also looks like it might be an Australian car because of the RHD and the trees in the background.  I wonder if any of you Down Under recognize it?  Was it painted to match an original paint scheme?  I also found a touring car with a similar scheme.  Both pics are below.  Just wondering if this was the DB upper/lower paint design?  Thank you.

592 Feb 07 1927 Dodge Roadster Denis Robertshaw (1).JPG

20307300_1X.jpg

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1 hour ago, jari12 said:

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the response.  I have been collecting as many DB roadster pictures as I can find for a few years now.  I went back through them after my post last night and found the picture below.  It is a two tone body with the typical black fenders etc.  It also looks like it might be an Australian car because of the RHD and the trees in the background.  I wonder if any of you Down Under recognize it?  Was it painted to match an original paint scheme?  I also found a touring car with a similar scheme.  Both pics are below.  Just wondering if this was the DB upper/lower paint design?  Thank you.

592 Feb 07 1927 Dodge Roadster Denis Robertshaw (1).JPG

20307300_1X.jpg

I remember my late father in law telling me that back in the 50s used car lots would do this sort of thing to "freshen" up an old car before it was put out on the lot for sale Unfortunatley there are no coloured original photos about  They still look nice though

 

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1 hour ago, Mattml430 said:

Yer ok I see what your saying now. They look quite nice. 

I kind of like the look as well but I would really like to know if that was what was done originally or not when the paint chart lists upper color and lower color.

Thanks.

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On 9/8/2021 at 7:33 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

I do not recall two tone roadsters, but I don't remember breakfast. I do think you are correct in that the fenders would still be black. Did you check with the four cylinder tech advisor?

I did send Rodger an email asking about the paint chart listing two colors (upper and lower) for the 1926-1927 Sport roadsters.  Hopefully he might have some experience or documentation that can answer the question.  Thank you.

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Just a little update on my paint questions.  I did hear back from Rodger the DBC four cylinder Tech Advisor.  He has no more information about paint than is in the chart on the DBC webpage.  He does believe that the paint shown in my two example pics is representative of the upper/lower paint design originally done by dodge.  I have tried to search for advertising from the time and there are a few ads for the "new four cylinder" cars that show two tone in a similar pattern but I didn't find any depicting roadsters just four door sedans.  

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AACA library has thousands of ads, I know because I scanned about 10000 of them. Not sure how to access them but they could tell you, ask for Matt. He knows our literature pretty well. They are searchable by manufacture. I don't remember any two tone roadsters but there could have been. At that time almost all ads were drawings not photos. 

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2 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

AACA library has thousands of ads, I know because I scanned about 10000 of them. Not sure how to access them but they could tell you, ask for Matt. He knows our literature pretty well. They are searchable by manufacture. I don't remember any two tone roadsters but there could have been. At that time almost all ads were drawings not photos. 

Thanks for the tip.  If you go to the AACA Library webpage there is a link at the top for Automotive Advertisements.  You can go to the Chrysler ones and  hit the Dodge Brothers button and view all of the ads by year.  Once you hit the year you are interested in you have to scroll down the page and they are all there.  Fun to see them all.  I did find a two door coupe ad that is two tone.  Still no roadsters but fun to see all the ads.  What a great resource and thank you for doing all of the scanning.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 9/12/2021 at 8:17 AM, nearchoclatetown said:

AACA library has thousands of ads, I know because I scanned about 10000 of them. Not sure how to access them but they could tell you, ask for Matt. He knows our literature pretty well. They are searchable by manufacture. I don't remember any two tone roadsters but there could have been. At that time almost all ads were drawings not photos. 

Thanks for the tip.  If you go to the AACA Library webpage there is a link at the top for Automotive Advertisements.  You can go to the Chrysler ones and  hit the Dodge Brothers button and view all of the ads by year.  Once you hit the year you are interested in you have to scroll down the page and they are all there.  Fun to see them all.  I did find a two door coupe ad that is two tone.  Still no roadsters but fun to see all the ads.  What a great resource and thank you for doing all of the scanning.

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Time for a little update.  I work at a small college and recently went back to teaching so I am spoiled now and have summers off.  I had a lot of time to spend in the garage this summer and got a lot done on my car for the first time since I bought it 10 or 11 years ago.  I had to shift to other projects and family for the end of the summer and then classes started up again so I haven't gotten much done since July.  Still working on the garage addition for camper storage as well.  The roof is on and I cobbled together a small cupola to cover where the new ridge ties in to the old one.  Still have to get sides on by snowfall.  But I have gotten a little DB time in as well.  I made another parts run to a fellow DBer and picked up a vacuum tank and some other parts that will help to extend the frame from it's doodlebug length back to stock in the future.  I mounted the vacuum tank last night to test it and  have a fuel supply for a test fire of the engine.  Also worked on the wiring/ignition.  My distributor is back on and I modified a rotor I found locally which is probably from the 30's but I think will work.  It is the right size, but needed to be modified to mesh with the distributor shaft.  Also bought a new 6 volt battery and coil.  Still using old wiring for the test fire, but I cleaned up all of the contacts.  Original condensor and points are in place but also had contacts cleaned.  The starter button on the floor was frozen solid.  I removed it last night and got it free after a two hour soak in evaporust.  I left it to soak over night and will rinse it and flush it with WD40 tonight after work. Hopefully it will work.  Could be a test fire tonight or tomorrow.  I am both excited and a little scared.  Worried that I might have the  timing out 180 degrees but I should be able to figure that out pretty quickly if it fires.  A few pics below of the garage and the engine.  

PXL_20211005_195353428.jpg

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I attempted to fire it.  It turned over pretty well for quite while but nothing happened. I realized I had left the vacuum tank fuel valve closed.  I made sure I had fuel to the carb and tried again.  The starter started smoking really bad on my second attempt before it fired.  I stopped.  I charged the battery overnight and checked spark with hand cranking this morning.  I have spark and fuel so  decided to try again.  The starter won't turn over today.  I was trying to get it started as is but I will probably have to send the starter off for a rebuild.  It turned over off the car and it worked ok for a few minutes of cranking  on the car but it is 96 years old and has the original pot metal pieces.  It does have a steel end cap someone put on at some point to reinforce the pot metal but it is probably long overdue for a rebuild.  I'm bummed that I couldn't get it to start.  I'll pull the starter off tomorrow and try to see what's wrong with it.  I waited ten years or so before digging in to the engine, I guess I can wait a little longer.

Edited by jari12
missed info and typo (see edit history)
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Since the compression on these is pretty low, hand cranking to start isn't difficult (but read up on the correct (safe) technique).  I couldn't wait on mine and so just made sure the timing was retarded, and hot wire the ignition to a nearby battery.  A little choke and it fired up within a few cranks.   

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17 hours ago, MikeC5 said:

Since the compression on these is pretty low, hand cranking to start isn't difficult (but read up on the correct (safe) technique).  I couldn't wait on mine and so just made sure the timing was retarded, and hot wire the ignition to a nearby battery.  A little choke and it fired up within a few cranks.   

Thanks Mike.  I tried to crank mine by hand but I don't have a handcrank.  I tentatively used a socket wrench but I either didn't have the guts to try hard enough or something else wasn't right.  I know I have spark because I pulled a plug wire to try to check while hand cranking and gave myself a good jolt. I'm away for the long weekend so I will pull the starter when I get it another try.

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Starting with a crank handle like everything else has a correct and safe procedure.

First step is to retard the ignition, this will cause the spark to ignite the fuel mixture after top dead centre helping to minimise a kickback.

The second point is to grasp the handle with the thumb parallel with the fingers, do not wrap your thumb around the handle.

The third is to ease the handle round on to compression and preferably pull up to start.

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  • 2 months later...

I thought I would chime in and wish everyone on both sides of the world a Merry Christmas as well. 

Also wanted to share. My wife either caved in or got on the Dodge Brothers band wagon. I found some Dodgey presents under the tree this morning. She added to the parts fund with a car she made out of money that she says is to buy parts or pay for the rebuild of my starter.  She was there to watch me try to fire up my engine when the starter went up in smoke.  Also got a new DB t-shirt.  Good to know I can get after a starter rebuild and spend some more time in the garage.

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PXL_20211225_160407334.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

Finally getting back to work on my car.  I went and picked up my newly rebuilt starter and a few other bits and pieces from George at Romar last Friday.  I got the starter in and it works great but my engine won't start.  I put a new gasket in the vacuum tank, replaced the fittings on the fuel line and made a vacuum line.  The starter works, the vacuum tank works, but the engine is backfiring out of the carb.  I did have a fuel leak and wondered if it was running too lean so that is why I redid all the fittings on the fuel line.  I still have a little fuel dripping out of the carb so something else is going on with that (it's not a stock Detroit Lubricator but it was on the car when I got it).  I also checked  to be sure that my timing is correct and I think it is.  When I can feel compression build in #1 my rotor is approaching that wire on the dist. cap.  I'm a little bit bummed out.  It's kind of weird, it only backfires once each time I try and then just turns over without firing.  Today after checking the timing it backfired out the tailpipe but again only once.  Any  ideas?

vacuum tank and starter.jpg

Vacuum tank 1.jpg

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I just caught my own mistake.  I was looking back at my last post and noticed in my picture that my firing order was wrong.  I had labeled my plug wires when I took my engine apart and put them back the same way.  I didn't check to be sure that the order was correct.  The firing order in the pic above is 1432 and it should be 1342.  I'll fix that in the morning and see what happens.  

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Still not running.  I spent half the day yesterday chasing fuel problems.  My carb was flooding because the float was set too high.  I adjusted the float level three times before I broke the solder where the hinge was attached to the float.  I resoldered it back on and then had a leak and a my float filled with fuel.  I fixed the leak and then the float kept  getting  stuck.  I must have had the carb on and off and the played with the float at least a dozen times.  I think the float is finally right but the carb may still have something going on it is still dripping ever time after a failed starting attempt.  The engine wants to run.  It fires on 1 or 2 cylinders every time but just doesn't catch and take off.  Still backfiring out of the carb every once in awhile as well.  Don't know what to try next.

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 I’m no carb guru but I’ll put in my 2 cents.  Are you sure the needle valve is seating ok?   How open is the idle screw?  Start with 1 1/2 turns and work up from there.  Good luck. 

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I have had the carb apart quite a few times. I think everything looks good but there is not much (not any) info available for this carb nor is there a rebuild kit.  There are kits available for the later Winfields but nothing listed for this one.  I made new gaskets for it, took everything apart and cleaned it and reassembled it.  I used the initial settings that are listed for the later carbs.  Hard to know if it's right or not.  I'll shut off the supply from the vacuum tank and give it another go.

 

Thanks for the advice.

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Good idea once it’s flooded to turn the fuel off. While the plugs are out did you check for good spark on each plug while it’s turning over. 
You could also try moving the distributor back and forth to adjust the timing while turning it over. 
Be sure number 1 valves are closed and 4 are rocking when the rotor is lined up with #1

Goodluck fingers crossed she’s fires up for you. 

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I've been fiddling with the car all week.  I was fiddling with carb/fuel and timing all at the same time and was getting no where.  I pulled the valve covers off and checked valve position in relation to compression on #1 and rotor position.  They all looked close but i wasn't getting it to fire at all.  Checked spark and didn't have any.  I had left my ignition on at one point and had felt a really hot coil so I checked the low voltage loop and it was working but couldn't get any spark through the high voltage loop. So I bought another new coil and put in new plugs and plug wires at the same time. I also noticed a crack in my cap running from the coil pin to pin #1.  I scraped the crack out with a razor blade, cleaned it with carb cleaner and filled it with super glue.  I don't know which of the changes was the culprit but I'm sure they all helped. First crank and the engine caught and ran for a half a minute but wouldn't keep going.  I have a friend coming over today so I can have a second pair of hands to rotate the distributor while turning the car over to see if we can dial in the timing.

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Well done it must of been nice to hear it fire up and run. It could well of been the cap that was causing you grief but everything else you’ve done would also of helped. 👍👍

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  • 4 weeks later...

I thought I'd give a little update.  Still struggling to get it running.  It ran for a few minutes today before flooding.  I have been battling float issues with my carb.  The old one is riddled with cracks. I've tried soldering them, sealing using JB weld, sealing with nail polish, etc.  There are so many cracks that the weight of the solder or JB weld to seal it makes it no better than if it fills with gas but they both failed and it filled with gas anyway.  So I tried to find a new float for a carb that has no parts support at all.  I decided on pictures alone that a Holly 94 float looked similar.  I ordered one for less than ten bucks including shipping and only had to wait three weeks for it.  It is a little bigger but I thought I'd give it a try.  I took its mount off and swapped the one from my old float on.  It was tight but I thought it would work.  It got stuck and flooded.  So I pulled the carb apart yet again to tweak the mount and I snapped it.  Heading to visit family in the morning so I'll take another break and think about making a new float mount. The pic is of my old float and the new one before I swapped the mounts.  It is the same shape but a bit larger.  It came close to working so I have hope.

PXL_20220628_223522082.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Time for an update.  I spent all of July traveling to see family, gardening, canning, and fighting with my carburetor.  The new float is just enough bigger to tease me with the idea that it would work but would end up sticking in the float chamber.  The mount (hinge) from the original snapped from all of the bending I did trying to tweak the adjustment.  So, I made a cork float and a new hinge from copper.  Worked great until it soaked up fuel which did not take long.  So I ordered some float sealer and that worked great but the carb still flooded.  I found out that the float needle was not sealing.  I had to buy a set of deep well 1/4" drive sockets to remove the seat.  The new sockets were still too wide to fit in the carb.  I turned the socket down and finally got the seat out.  The same day, my new rebuilt original Detroit Lubricator carb showed up from Romar DB parts.  I still think the Winfield Carb is cool, but I wanted this thing to run for more than a minute.  The new carb looks great.  I put it on but the choke lever slipped when I was installing it.  Once I realized that and reset it the engine fired right up and stayed running.  Now I get to dial it in but need to get the radiator in and the coolant hoses installed first.  It's been a long frustrating summer but it's  pretty cool to hear it run.

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1 hour ago, jari12 said:

Time for an update.  I spent all of July traveling to see family, gardening, canning, and fighting with my carburetor.  The new float is just enough bigger to tease me with the idea that it would work but would end up sticking in the float chamber.  The mount (hinge) from the original snapped from all of the bending I did trying to tweak the adjustment.  So, I made a cork float and a new hinge from copper.  Worked great until it soaked up fuel which did not take long.  So I ordered some float sealer and that worked great but the carb still flooded.  I found out that the float needle was not sealing.  I had to buy a set of deep well 1/4" drive sockets to remove the seat.  The new sockets were still too wide to fit in the carb.  I turned the socket down and finally got the seat out.  The same day, my new rebuilt original Detroit Lubricator carb showed up from Romar DB parts.  I still think the Winfield Carb is cool, but I wanted this thing to run for more than a minute.  The new carb looks great.  I put it on but the choke lever slipped when I was installing it.  Once I realized that and reset it the engine fired right up and stayed running.  Now I get to dial it in but need to get the radiator in and the coolant hoses installed first.  It's been a long frustrating summer but it's  pretty cool to hear it run.

These are great carbs. Setting the choke is critical. Improper setting will cause excessive fuel use could wash oil out of cylinders. Do you have this publication?

 

1 hour ago, jari12 said:

0086BE48-567D-4B18-811C-45EF21AEB30D.jpeg

Edited by stakeside
E (see edit history)
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