Dauphinee

White walls??Why vs why not

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On 5/8/2011 at 1:42 PM, Curti said:

A question and a comment.

If is my understanding the last double white walls were used on the new cars of 1938. If white walls were ordered new in 1939 they were singles. Is this true?

I find it interesting to look at the very high end cars that are displayed at the Concourse de Elligance events. The Bugatti, Isota Frachini, Talbo Lago and the like. The lions share of those cars have blackwall tires. It is seems that with truly fine automobiles attention is not drawn to the tires but to the car. Cars that are in need of a bit of 'sprucing up' will have white sidewalls. Something to add a bit of pizzazz. This would apply to pre WWII cars.

On a Buick, the last double white wall tires were in 1941.  My Dad's 1939 Buick did come with double whitewall tires.  I have an old picture of the car with them and it's dated by the fact I'm about 3 years old in the picture, maybe 4.

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Some time ago on this site this topic was discussed. The very earliest  single whitewalls shown in factory literature was 1938.  I don't recall the brand of car. 

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On 6/3/2011 at 8:44 AM, Curti said:

Artists conceptions and drawings should NEVER be used for documentation,

only era and preferable factory photographs.

Can’t really count on factory photos in all cases either as many differ from the cars that actually went into production. Remember, most these photos were taken early in the model year and used for advertising long before the cars were actually available to the public. Often, changes were made prior to there release to the dealerships. Using my own 32’ Olds DCR as an example, there are factory photos that show a black wood wheeled roadster out in front of a Tudor style house. The car lacks the contrasting color on cigarette cream in the saddle area. It also shows the pinstripe on the sprocket pattern to be right on the edge of the pattern. (This is currently accepted by many as correct) When looking a true production cars and survivors, one will see the saddle painted and the sprocket pattern set back about 3/16” from the pattern edge. The picture with the motorcycle is a dealer photo of a car during production. You will see the cigarette cream door saddle and body pinstripe. Unfortunately the wheels are wire. Photo of the natural wood wheel is a restored one. I’m trying to post the picture of the original unrestored wheel but I’m having an issue trying to do it with my iPad. Last picture is my restored wheel.

 

On the WWW, almost every picture of a 32’ Olds roadster, deluxe or standard shows WWW so that’s what I went with. That includes factory photos, dealership photos, and photos of present day restored cars.

 

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=118925

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John, are those pictures dated?  Could they have been taken later?  It is my understanding that the technology of applying the black tread to the white rubber tire didn't come to fruition until the late 30's.

 This is not a subject I can speak to with authority,  I am going by what was posted on this site a couple of years ago.   

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One or some of my tires at one time came to me black. The white wall was "painted" over. You could not tell it was white underneath until it was worn a little. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that one wiped it down with something to get the black paint off it. I can't remember if it was single or double sided in white. I believe it was supplied by the factory that way, but I don't know.

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20 hours ago, Curti said:

John, are those pictures dated?  Could they have been taken later?  It is my understanding that the technology of applying the black tread to the white rubber tire didn't come to fruition until the late 30's.

 This is not a subject I can speak to with authority,  I am going by what was posted on this site a couple of years ago.   

The promotional photo taken of the Olds with the motorcycle was taken in 32’ and the other photos are all factory promotional photos taken most likely mid 31’. Yes they are all single sided WWWs in the pictures.

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2011 at 2:15 PM, De Soto Frank said:

As for the "late-'30's cars with side-mount tires", some look better than others...

Personally, I always thought the sidemount spares on the '40 ( & '41?) Buicks looked a little odd ( anachronistic ) …

 

  Agreed. 

 

 

Agreed.  
Some cars look better with sidemounts than others. 

 

And I really agree about the 1940 Buicks with sidemounts looking "odd"--the sidemounts detract from the beautiful lines of these cars, they looked tacked on.  Not a good look.  

(1941 Buicks did not come equipped with sidemounts--thank goodness)

 

As the cars got rounder and curvier in their design, the sidemounts look less and less attractive.  

 

As seen in a pre-war Nancy Drew film, this 1937 Ford was fitted with a sidemount; I guess someone just could not help themselves.  Ford did not sell them this way and one look tells you why.  

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Edited by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Pomeroy41144 said:

As the cars got rounder and curvier in their design, the sidemounts look less and less attractive.

As the 1930s progressed, the front mudguards or fenders became shorter so any spare tire mounted in them had to be higher. That is the case in the picture above.

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I live up in Minnesota where lots of stills supplied the life blood for Chicago in the 1920s and early 1930s.  When a car showed up in town with whitewalls they knew someone was in trouble with the Chicago gangsters.  I have cars with and without white walls.

 

1932 Graham Model 56 Roadster (factory picture)

Image result for 1932 Graham

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37 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I'd never put white walls on my truck. at least not the ones we have now.

 

Bernie

When is the last time you saw a new car (last 15 years) with whitewalls ?

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Whitewalls or Blackwalls, reminds me of the old Chicken or Egg debate.

It's all about taste!  I like them both, grilled chicken and eggs, sunny side up.

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The white wall tires are just a matter of taste. I like them on old cars and some old trucks. I do not care for them on working or transportation trucks. And newer cars, those made in the past 15 years -even a little more, don't look right with them. I have a couple of newer cars I treat with collector status, to me but that's a whole different can of worms. They are a 1994 and a 2003, with blackwalls because that's the way they came. I would never think of blackwalls on my '64 or '60 Buicks. They would cheapen the look of either them or me.

 

I am from a different time and have different values. A nice looking set of tires on an old car is as natural to me as being dressed up for church or a funeral. Maybe I look out of place not being dressed in shorts and flip flops at those kind of events, but the others will just have to live with me not joining the casual Tee attire.

 

And when I walk out the door I approach my car with a smile. Because "I" think it looks good.

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Just my opinion here.  

 

Except for the more expensive cars of the era, I think the low to mid priced cars in the mid 1920s to late 1930s look ridiculous with whitewall tires including my 1933 Chevrolet.  The next set of tires for my 33 will definitely be black-walls.

 

Seems like people are attempting to turn their low to mid priced cars of the era into full classics by adding a set of ridiculously wide whitewall tires.

 

I have never seen an original factory photo of most of these cars with whitewall tires.

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 2:03 PM, Vila said:

Just my opinion here.  

 

Except for the more expensive cars of the era, I think the low to mid priced cars in the mid 1920s to late 1930s look ridiculous with whitewall tires including my 1933 Chevrolet.  The next set of tires for my 33 will definitely be black-walls.

 

Seems like people are attempting to turn their low to mid priced cars of the era into full classics by adding a set of ridiculously wide whitewall tires.

 

I have never seen an original factory photo of most of these cars with whitewall tires.

 

Would you think the 32’ Olds models priced in the $995-$1095 range to be a more expensive car of the era? I would think it was more of a mid level priced car and you can see in earlier posts and pictures supplied by John, all either factory or dealer photos showing WWWs on most models. 

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I've commented on this previously, so was a little reluctant to be redundant, but here goes. IMO our preference for ww's or bw's is hardwired into each of us by what was popular when we grew up, and when we became interested in cars. Ww's have been available in virtually every era, but like paint colors, preferences changed with what was prevalent, at the time. In other words our preferences are determined with what we grew up with, and those preferences are subconsciously transferred to cars of other eras, irrespective of historical norms. 

 

I'll try to limit my use of the Classic era as an illustration, because I didn't live through the Depression. Until the 50's tires were an expensive wear item, and didn't last very long. Ww's were a little more expensive so many saw them as an extravagance, that they couldn't afford, so their use was reserved for dress up. For about 20 years from the Depression through the early 50's most buyers were just glad to have wheels, and any tires would do, as long as they held air. Beginning in the early 50's things change dramatically, as manufactures dressed up there offerings for a very competitive market. Bright paint combinations, chrome, and ww's changed the look of what we bought and what we learned to like.

 

The era of the ww's lasted for about 25 years, until about 1980. But beginning in the late 60's things began to change, as the young people begin to rebel against their father's proclivity for ww's. The look that they liked all included bw's. The look went along with terms like "tough" and "cool," and really went along with a cultural change. So your grandfather's 1950 Buick, that he bought new, came with bw's. When your uncle Jim got it in the 60's he put ww's on it. When you got the car in the 80's, off came the ww's, and on came the bw's. 

 

We never looked back. Generations have grown old with little or no memory of ww's, much less want to put them on their cross-over. So in spite of the fact that probably three quarters of 1967 Camaros came with ww's, few if any are seen with them today. My guess is that when we old timers are gone there will be few vestiges of ww's remaining. Be patient you won't have long to wait.

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My dad had a 68-76 Eldorado thing.  Only problem was he put wide whites on every one of them.   I'm still scared from it.

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The whites on my '60 Electra are too wide.

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I bought the car in 2002 with a set of worn mismatched 78 series tires. At the time Doug Seibert had just ordered a new set of tires for his consistent first place winning 1958 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud. The one year old set he had shown in 2001 were no longer at his standard. He offered the unacceptable set to me for $175 on condition. The condition was that I wear the tires out driving. Dry rot would not be tolerated.

 

I used those tires for nine years, averaging about 1,000 miles per year. And the tread was worn to the limit. I just ordered the same tires from Coker early in 2012 as replacements. By that time I figured I was going to keep the car a while.

 

So sometimes there is more behind the picture, like the times I have walked up to the car and thought of what a good friend Doug has been for the past 30 years. And looked past the originality of the tires.

 

"There are eight million stories in the naked city. This has been one of them."

 

 

 

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