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White walls??Why vs why not


Dauphinee

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I was on a private tour this morning of Bob Bahre's collection at his house on Paris Hill. Was there with a group of Rotarians from India. One of the Indians asked about white walls on the Packards - there are 7 from 1931-1938, all twin sixes, all with white walls, as well as the 3 Duesenbergs, among others. The answer was that when new, most of these cars were delivered with black walls. White walls were an option but not chosen by many buyers. When cars like these are restored, it is more personal preference of the owner.

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This is a copy of a picture of my car taken in 1938. I plan on keeping blackwalls on it as a Buick Special wasn't a high end car and I like the look.

Curt to the best of my knowledge the ACD club will take points if you have single whitewalls.

Carl

That looks like a 1937 Buick in the picture to me. By the way, my Dad's 1939 Buick SPECIAL had the original double white sidewall tires on it when he bought it in 1941.

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Not so sure on concours judging but one could possibly, with a bit of careful insight, perhaps glean a clue as to how they might increase or decrease their chances of having their car featured in The Antique Automobile! ;)

"John, the guy from AA magazine is coming tomorrow, you cleaned the car but why are you putting those old tires back on? Hey, where did those expensive driving lights go??!" :)

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Guest Foggy norm

This is on Ebay till the 13th. 350 430 995 180. Should help for the year 1941. Yeah, it's Packard, but it does show the economical line.

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I grew up ( so to speak) in the 60's...cars had white sidewalls....It seemed normal, we would see some large older cars from downtown looking like "superfly" with gangster whitewalls..tv antennas and such..seemed very tacky... 55 Continental & T Bird look like they should have em..but I never understood the "Denman" 3'' look seen at Lincoln meets for so long..

The guys on Ford barn showed me by giving my car the photo shop treatment...I think it looks like it belongs in a circus..with 'em.

Edited by Mssr. Bwatoe (see edit history)
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Guest bkazmer
This is on Ebay till the 13th. 350 430 995 180. Should help for the year 1941. Yeah, it's Packard, but it does show the economical line.

1941 Packards had white walls shown in the ads, even 110's, but they were optional. If you didn't check the box, you got blackwalls. I'm sure their fitment % was higher than on, say, a Ford, but still optional

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QUOTE: The guys on Ford barn showed me by giving my car the photo shop treatment...I think it looks like it belongs in a circus..with 'em.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> UNQUOTE

The Lincoln sure looks a lot better with the whitewalls, at least to me. Cars without whitewalls look dowdy. The 1930's were a time of dowdiness, and whitewalls were always an optional upgrade. But, not everybody was wedded to dowdiness, so why would one want to be now today? It kind of reminds me of a guy who insist his wife dress down so nobody else will look at her.

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I think of black as "more sporty" as opposed to dowdy. That Lincoln definitely looks more sporty with black. I seriously doubt that the people who had the black in the '30s thought it was dowdy. I think white sidewalls looks dowdy, and liken it to putting ballet shoes on a linebacker.

I have a theory, and I'd be interested in a scientific survey done on it:

Those who grew up in the 1950s (10-20 years old~) tend to like white sidewalls, thinking that black is dowdy because that's what their parents had. All kids think that whatever their parents like it dowdy.

Therefore, offspring of the 1950s generation tend to like black, thinking that white sidewalls look dowdy.

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I think of black as "more sporty" as opposed to dowdy. That Lincoln definitely looks more sporty with black. I seriously doubt that the people who had the black in the '30s thought it was dowdy. I think white sidewalls looks dowdy, and liken it to putting ballet shoes on a linebacker.

I have a theory, and I'd be interested in a scientific survey done on it:

Those who grew up in the 1950s (10-20 years old~) tend to like white sidewalls, thinking that black is dowdy because that's what their parents had. All kids think that whatever their parents like it dowdy.

Therefore, offspring of the 1950s generation tend to like black, thinking that white sidewalls look dowdy.

I am a bit surprised that you have not "blacked out" the white sidewall on the tire in your avatar....

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Blackwalls look cheap to me, and make a car look unfinished. Who cares if 99% of cars in the 1930's did not come with whitewalls? The point is, you could get them, either as an option or as an aftermarket replacement. And if anyone considered their car more than basic transportation and wanted to dress it up, that would probably be the first thing they would add to it.

Today cars are bland. No style, fins, chrome, interesting colors, etc. And you cannot get whitewalls. That is why I prefer old cars. So in an era when you could get whatever you wanted, why take a page from today's blandness and go with blackwalls? Whitewalls are just one more interesting thing that you can't get anymore. Granted 5" wide whites look terrible on a 1964 Cadillac, and some sports cars might not look right with whitewalls, but if it is period correct, most cars look better with whitewalls, and most 1949-1980 cars just look wrong or cheap without them IMO.

Edited by LINC400 (see edit history)
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......

Today cars are bland. No style, fins, chrome, interesting colors, etc. And you cannot get whitewalls. That is why I prefer old cars.......

Not true, Google Coker, Diamond Back.........

Everything in my yard has whitewalls, even the newer cars. I will be getting a set for my new Suburban as soon as the show season slacks off. :)

You can call me a showoff, but nothing is more fun than proving to the public that todays cars and trucks do not have to be bland, and in some instances, "ugly".

As some have posted here, whitewalls take away from the look of the original article. So be it. That's where removing the "ugly" comes in.

A whitewall fan from Virginia!:cool:

Wayne

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Blackwalls look cheap to me, and make a car look unfinished. Who cares if 99% of cars in the 1930's did not come with whitewalls? The point is, you could get them, either as an option or as an aftermarket replacement. And if anyone considered their car more than basic transportation and wanted to dress it up, that would probably be the first thing they would add to it.

Today cars are bland. No style, fins, chrome, interesting colors, etc. And you cannot get whitewalls. That is why I prefer old cars. So in an era when you could get whatever you wanted, why take a page from today's blandness and go with blackwalls? Whitewalls are just one more interesting thing that you can't get anymore. Granted 5" wide whites look terrible on a 1964 Cadillac, and some sports cars might not look right with whitewalls, but if it is period correct, most cars look better with whitewalls, and most 1949-1980 cars just look wrong or cheap without them IMO.

Very well said. Bland and cheap.

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The "dress up" thing is really the root of the problem. There seems to be two groups. One comprised of those that want the style of the car to stand on it's own without distraction. The second being those that want to bring extra attention to the car.

All of the following detract from the overall lines or styling of the car (in my humble opinion):

1. White walls.

2. aftermarket hood ornaments (especially Lalique!!!!!!!)

3. badges

4. pilot rays

5. extra trunks (for 20s & 30s cars)

6. Pennants

7. Curb feelers (for 50s cars)

8. Spot lights

9. Spare mounted mirrors (20s & 30s cars)

10. Aftermarket radiator stone guards

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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By the way, I am a BIG fan of black wheels with black tires.

Agreed! This makes the CAR stand out. I guess it all depends on what you want to POP!

Some cars look more elegant, like the late 30s cars when you add the whitewall, where they look more utilitarian with the blackwall.

Although I think red and yellow cars look great with the red and yellow stripe tires...

Personally, I'm sick of cleaning them and will probably be turning mine in on all cars at the next rotation.

I've got a set of portowalls for the '58 just in case. :)

Alsancle,

I had to google pilot rays....guess that makes me feel young! :) We call them light bars on motorcycles.

Edited by bhclark (see edit history)
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Guest De Soto Frank

"Agreed! This makes the CAR stand out. I guess it all depends on what you want to POP!

Some cars look more elegant, like the late 30s cars when you add the whitewall, where they look more utilitarian with the blackwall."

Well then, why not just remove the wheels and tires altogether ?

Then folks will HAVE to focus on "the car itself"... ;)

I think in many cases, the wheel was designed as part of the car, and should not necessarily "disappear"....

And for those that think it's not important - what's the first thing that looks "wrong" about the reproduction Auburn 852 boat-tail speedsters ? ( For instance...)

The "wrong" size / appearance wheels and tires !!!!!!!!

Spoils the whole effort, in my opinion.

I'm still struggling with the dictum that 1928-through mid 1930 Model A Fords can only have black wheels.... Black wheels, black tires, black fenders, black splash aprons.... too much black for me, especially when the upper body is one of the very dark blues...

And apparently, I 'm not the only A owner that feels that way, because I see an awful lot of stock, other-wise correct, '28-'29 Fords with non-black wire wheels...

That said, I do feel that the fenders and splash apron should be black, at least on the Model A...

Edited by De Soto Frank (see edit history)
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Both my 'bathtub' Packard Customs left the factory with 4" white walls. As long as I'm still breathing, they will continue to have WWW's. I don't know what the '41 limousine left the factory with but when I got it, it had WWW's and I will continue with them as well as paint the currently/originally black car two-tone (using a factory-approved color scheme, French Silver over Puritan Gray). Otherwise the car would look like it got separated from a funeral procession. That's my 2 cents. Yes, I grew up in the 50's/60's. :)

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If you have a post war car and you prefer white walls put the correct width ones on. If you have a early 40's or 30's car and you feel white walls are needed; by all means put them on as long as they are white on BOTH sides.

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I just put on my second set of wide whites. I think the 1960 Buick is the last year you can get away with them on.

The important thing to me is that I wore out the first set. Black wall or white wall it is a real shame to have them dry rot before they wear out.

Oh yeah, biased tires and a generator. they work for me.

Lake1.jpg

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Guest djohn81641

My 60 Buick would look naked without her wide whites. I wouldn't drive the car without them. The car came with wide whites, in 1960 right off the dealer show room floor.

post-46358-14313854092_thumb.jpg

post-46358-143138540926_thumb.jpg

post-46358-143138540928_thumb.jpg

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If you have a post war car and you prefer white walls put the correct width ones on. If you have a early 40's or 30's car and you feel white walls are needed; by all means put them on as long as they are white on BOTH sides.

The blue car pictured here had double white walls for about 35 years. They were Universal Tires purchased in 1971 and they lasted until 2007 or 8 when I got worried they were too old to tour. They were 6.50x16 and available in 1971 from Ann Klein who owned Universal. I bought the first set she produced in that size. Later the 6.50x16 were discontinued, and only 6.00x16 were available and they had FORD on the side. Single whitewalls were also availale during the 1930's and early 1940's and there's nothing wrong with using them. I just wanted the doubles because they were also available when the car was new and they had been on my Dad's car when I was a little boy.

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My 60 Buick would look naked without her wide whites. I wouldn't drive the car without them. The car came with wide whites, in 1960 right off the dealer show room floor.

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That Buick also has " sweep cut " front and rear with raised lip fenders, a GM styling feature which first started with 1954 Olds 98 Holiday & Starfire convertible . This styling feature was NOT designed to use skirts because the sweep cut IS the feature of the styling. If you use skirts they create a conflict of interest in the body line.

The W/W's in the wedding picture are narrower than the current picture.

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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The blue car pictured here had double white walls for about 35 years. They were Universal Tires purchased in 1971 and they lasted until 2007 or 8 when I got worried they were too old to tour. They were 6.50x16 and available in 1971 from Ann Klein who owned Universal. I bought the first set she produced in that size. Later the 6.50x16 were discontinued, and only 6.00x16 were available and they had FORD on the side. Single whitewalls were also availale during the 1930's and early 1940's and there's nothing wrong with using them. I just wanted the doubles because they were also available when the car was new and they had been on my Dad's car when I was a little boy.

Do you have any factory photos or literature from tire companys to prove this?

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Single whitewalls were also availale during the 1930's and early 1940's and there's nothing wrong with using them.

I just checked an extensive photo file of original factory or period photographs for Packard in 1933, 1935 and 1939. I didn't see ANY photos of cars with white sidewall tires that DID NOT have double-sided whites. I don't know about Buick, or Auburn or any others, but even the few photos of "cheap" six-cylinder Packards had double whites.

I also found this interesting photo:

post-33613-143138541397_thumb.jpg

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Off the subject Helfin, but I don't care what you say; all cars from the mid 1930's on look better with fender skirts, :):D

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You mean all cars in the mid thirties on look better in YOUR opinion. GM styling and I agree sweep cut dosen't look good with a skirt.;)

I mean to many of us these cars represent a piece of rolling art.

If Rembrandt painted a picture that you liked and then bought you wouldn't alter the painting because you wanted a vase added to the table in the picture? or would you?

A 63 Corvette with white walls and a base engine and powerglide indicate one thing: This car isn't serious, on the street or especially on the track.

Edited by helfen (see edit history)
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I've never seen such disagreement over something that is, in my opinion, silly.

Since whitewalls were available, who is to say should have them, or not? It's just an opinion, and opinion's aren't wrong, they're just opinions.

The fact that AACA judges can interject their personal opinion and ding someone for whitewalls is, in my opinion, wrong.

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