White walls??Why vs why not

[Guest De Soto Frank]

" Were there any tire manufacturers offering single whites prior to 1940? Not counting the early tires discussed above. "

I believe there were. From what I can tell from the factory photos in the factory shop manual and factory parts book for my 1941 De Soto, it was available from the factory with Goodyear All-Weather diamond-tread tires, in both blackwall and white sidewall. The WWW was on one side only.

I have some color brochures for the '41 with actual Kodachrome color photographs (as opposed to stylized artist's renderings)... will try to dig them out and examine them for tire quality.

[ply33]

... I fear that whitewalls for our antiques will only be available from specialty tire dealers.

That is the case for lots of us today, even for blackwalls.

[Dynaflash8]

A question and a comment.

If is my understanding the last double white walls were used on the new cars of 1938. If white walls were ordered new in 1939 they were singles. Is this true? UNQUOTE

INCORRECT: The last use of double whitewalls was 1941. In fact, my Dad's 1939 Buick that he purchased used with 14,000 miles on it in 1941 had double whitewall tires and I have the picture to prove it.

Buick advertising for 1941 states: Available with reversible white sidewall tires.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Curti]

When was the first use of single whites then?

[Dynaflash8]

When was the first use of single whites then?

Although I cannot answer that question, I do know that during the 1930's and 1940-1941 single whites were available, and reversible whites were a further step up from them. After the War, only single whites were ever available, and I don't think they became available until sometime in 1947. I do not believe they were available as early as 1946. However, I won't stand by those last two sentences....memory for an old man is to fickle.

[keiser31]

A question and a comment.

If is my understanding the last double white walls were used on the new cars of 1938. If white walls were ordered new in 1939 they were singles. Is this true? UNQUOTE

INCORRECT: The last use of double whitewalls was 1941. In fact, my Dad's 1939 Buick that he purchased used with 14,000 miles on it in 1941 had double whitewall tires and I have the picture to prove it.

Buick advertising for 1941 states: Available with reversible white sidewall tires.

Thank you for that.

[Mark Huston]

I like the look of white walls on my 1929 Studebaker President Brougham. I hate the work required to keep them looking good, however, I do put up with it because I think the car looks better with them. I have had the misfortune of being verbally assaulted by total strangers at a car meet for having white wall tries on my car. I was told “I hate people like you putting white wall tires on cars that would never have had them when new”.

I have attached a black and white picture of a 1929 Studebaker President Brougham taken in Salt Lake City, Utah at about the time the car was new. Notice that it has single sided white wall tires. I now carry this picture in a photo album with my car to show to the total strangers who cannot keep their opinions to themselves.

I have also attached a picture of my car needing a paint job with white wall tires.

[West Peterson]

Mark

If you look closely, that original photo shows the car with double white sidewall tires. Nice photo.

I like the look of white walls on my 1929 Studebaker President Brougham. I hate the work required to keep them looking good, however, I do put up with it because I think the car looks better with them. I have had the misfortune of being verbally assaulted by total strangers at a car meet for having white wall tries on my car. I was told “I hate people like you putting white wall tires on cars that would never have had them when new”.

I have attached a black and white picture of a 1929 Studebaker President Brougham taken in Salt Lake City, Utah at about the time the car was new. Notice that it has single sided white wall tires. I now carry this picture in a photo album with my car to show to the total strangers who cannot keep their opinions to themselves.

I have also attached a picture of my car needing a paint job with white wall tires.

[West Peterson]

A question and a comment.

If is my understanding the last double white walls were used on the new cars of 1938. If white walls were ordered new in 1939 they were singles. Is this true?

I find it interesting to look at the very high end cars that are displayed at the Concourse de Elligance events. The Bugatti, Isota Frachini, Talbo Lago and the like. The lions share of those cars have blackwall tires. It is seems that with truly fine automobiles attention is not drawn to the tires but to the car. Cars that are in need of a bit of 'sprucing up' will have white sidewalls. Something to add a bit of pizzazz. This would apply to pre WWII cars.

Curt,

That is false. 1940 Packard Super Eight 180's came standard with double-sided white sidewall tires. (I don't think they're currently available, however)

Excellent point about the cars shown at concours. The white sidewall tires definitely attract your eye to the tires, rather than the artistic lines of the car.

[Mark Huston]

Mark

If you look closely, that original photo shows the car with double white sidewall tires. Nice photo.

West,

You have better eyesight then I do. I looked for double white walls and I did not see them. I guess the owner did not take the time to keep them as clean as the outside white walls while the inside white wall is blending in with the rest of the tire.

[keiser31]

West,

You have better eyesight then I do. I looked for double white walls and I did not see them. I guess the owner did not take the time to keep them as clean as the outside white walls while the inside white wall is blending in with the rest of the tire.

I see them, too.

[Mark Huston]

I see them, too.

I stand corrected.

[Curti]

West, I noticed the left front tire as well. Is it safe to say that if cars of the 30's have white wall tires in order to be period correct they should be double whites?

[West Peterson]

In some cases, I believe you are correct. A friend owns a 1935 Ford, and from what I'm told, single whites are NOT correct when it comes down to "last point" restorations. Whether AACA takes off points for single whites, I don't know. It probably would depend on the judging team at the time, and how well they know their mid-'30s Fords.

If you really want to know the answer (at least the "acceptable standards" answer), I think you'd need to contact the particular marque's club judging procedures.

[West Peterson]

By the way, I am a BIG fan of black wheels with black tires.

[alsancle]

By the way, I am a BIG fan of black wheels with black tires.

+1.

My dad and I had this argument last night. He says I'm in the minority based on what he sees at the shows. Based on this thread he's probably right.

[Curti]

I wonder what the Pebble Beach Judges say about mid 30's classics with single whites?

Hey West, That roadester looks just FINE with black on black, the thin chrome ring sets it off. What is that, an Invicta?

[alsancle]

Here is a good example of a car that doesn't need white walls to say "look at me". Which way does it look better?

[alsancle]

I wonder what the Pebble Beach Judges say about mid 30's classics with single whites?

Hey West, That roadester looks just FINE with black on black, the thin chrome ring sets it off. What is that, an Invicta?

I'm going to make a fool out of myself and say Alfa or Lancia.

[West Peterson]

Or, as some say, "Alpha." Alfa 1750

I think the Mercedes-Special roadster would look much better with darkly painted wheels, in both cases. Of course, the car color would have to change to dark, too, which would be a home-run in my eye.

Edited May 9, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[MochetVelo]

They did have whitewalls in the teens and twenties. Some of these (made by U.S. Rubber) had "natural rubber" (whitish) sidewalls with black tread, apparently because they were cheaper to make. Another fun fact: red tires were also used pre-war, some with the whitewall look (see photo). Red tires are still sold today, but not in clincher and "antique" sizes. They're common on bikes and moltorcycles, however. Here is an interesting thread.

Phil

[West Peterson]

Need ads.

Sometimes the Duesenberg Mormon Meteor is displayed with its original red tires.

[MochetVelo]

Here is a restored 1928 Opel Motoclub with original-style red tires. Maybe Coker would consider making these!

[1937-44]

This is a copy of a picture of my car taken in 1938. I plan on keeping blackwalls on it as a Buick Special wasn't a high end car and I like the look.

Curt to the best of my knowledge the ACD club will take points if you have single whitewalls.

Carl

[Curti]

This is a copy of a picture of my car taken in 1938. I plan on keeping blackwalls on it as a Buick Special wasn't a high end car and I like the look.

Curt to the best of my knowledge the ACD club will take points if you have single whitewalls.

Carl

I am aware of the ACD club judging rules for 1934-1934 Auburn. I have judged there for many years. There are folks that challange the judging guidelines when ever possible. Wheather I am a fan of blackwalls or whitewalls isn't relevent. What IS relevent, is what's correct.

I have a friend with an Auburn that is taking it to Pebble Beach. I am curious of what guidelines those judges have in reference to single whites or double whites; we know black is OK.

[1937-44]

Hi Curt,

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I cannot weigh in on Pebble Beach judging and wish your friend Good Luck.

[Bill Harmatuk]

Back in the early 70's, when long hair was in style, my Dad would make us get a real hair cut.

We, my brother and I, would have "white walls" around our hairline.

Bill H

[West Peterson]

Or, as some say, "Alpha." Alfa 1750

I think the Mercedes-Special roadster would look much better with darkly painted wheels, in both cases. Of course, the car color would have to change to dark, too, which would be a home-run in my eye.

And more than likely the way in which it would have left the factory:

[Curti]

Hi Curt,

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I cannot weigh in on Pebble Beach judging and wish your friend Good Luck.

Hey, you didn't ruffle my feathers one bit! I am just in search of the facts. This site is a good place to get them.

Ya, I think he does need luck. He wants to run it through with single wide whites.

[West Peterson]

The question is, are doubles even available in the size he needs?

[Curti]

I really don't know, I don't use them on my cars. Personally I am a blackwall kind of guy. He would need 6:50 or 7:00 x16

[Guest]

Here is a good example of a car that doesn't need white walls to say "look at me". Which way does it look better?

yes yes, see how the white wall distracts from the wires!! or in 60's 70's wire or mag wheels!

[nzcarnerd]

Or, as some say, "Alpha." Alfa 1750

I think the Mercedes-Special roadster would look much better with darkly painted wheels, in both cases. Of course, the car color would have to change to dark, too, which would be a home-run in my eye.

"Alpha" is mostly use by non-automotive journalists/sub-editors/caption writers and also those who a; don't know any automobile history or b; rely too much on spellcheck. There are also many people who put up a car for sale but fail to read the badges on it before they write their ad.

[Guest South_paw]

Hey, you could have the best of both worlds

If you go to the Cadillac Period Picture thread right here on the AACA forum you will see plenty of examples of each on pre war Cadillacs. Blackwalls, Double whitewalls, even one with a narrow WW tires.

http://forums.aaca.org/f151/cadillac-period-pictures-294846.html

[torry61]

Does anyone know the CORRECT width whitewall for a 1960 Desoto Adventurer?

[Barry Wolk]

Excellent point about the cars shown at concours. The white sidewall tires definitely attract your eye to the tires, rather than the artistic lines of the car.

Nice opinion, but that's not fact for a lot of people. I rarely give tires a second look, unless the white wall is dirty. If you've got a hang-up about white walls then surely that's where you'd look.

[West Peterson]

"Black Wall Tires: they blend into the pavements. White wall tires say 'Look at Me. Here I am. Looove me.'"

DriveSilver, a whitewall lover, agrees with me. Black tires blend, whitewalls stick out. Like getting a short, short haircut, when you end up with "whitewalls" around your ears.

[Barry Wolk]

I don't look at people's hair, either.

[poci1957]

Does anyone know the CORRECT width whitewall for a 1960 Desoto Adventurer?

2 1/4"

This whole whitewall issue is much like our previous threads about accessories and gaudy paint on coachbuilt Classics--in some cases it was technically not incorrect but was rarely seen at the time. For me it depends on the car. Big 1930s classics look right with wide whites, but the silver Mercedes from alsancle looks better with blackwalls. Of course it looks spectacular either way.

I think Barry's red Ford pickup looks great with wide whites, but how many trucks in the 1940s and 1950s actually had them? Almost none, "deluxe" cab or not. I have a 1957 Star Chief and with it's spinner hubcaps and two tone paint blackwalls would look unnatural, as they would on most highly trimmed 1950s cars.

And as helfen said, PLEASE no wide whites on anything after 1961, that is the heighth of tacky. Todd

[Rusty_OToole]

You are right, pickups did not get whitewalls except possibly in California. I used to have quite a collection of hot rod and custom car magazines from the fifties. There were a lot of late model pickup trucks in there that were customized, sometimes with lots of chrome and whitewalls. Usually they were shop trucks that belonged to hot rodders who owned garages.