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Most Underrated Car's


Steve_Mack_CT
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:D That's when the Phaeton becomes a closet coupe. :eek:

Re-securing the seat towards the back about a foot into the rear seat area would be the remedy. Authenticity be darned. I'd be driving that wonder!:)

Wayne

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Wayne, here is your chance, this car is for sale. Do you want my friends number, it's a beautiful car.

Don

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A couple of '70s cars come to my mind.

76 Chrysler Cordoba. Because my first girlfriend owned one....

77 Pontiac Can-Am. Limited production, 400 engine, shaker hood scoop.

77-79 Pontiac Trans-Am. Starting to perk up a bit now, after years in obscurity. Not only the "Bandit" SE versions, but the nice blue ones as well. WS6 equipped of course.

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The problem for the Trans Am of those years and of 80-81( same body) is that Pontiac started putting Olds and Chevy and in six cylinder Firebirds Buick engines in some of them starting with cars for California. To a Pontiac lover this act automatically says it's not a Pontiac anymore. GM for years cultivated such a brand image for the divisions and a lot of this image was tied to each divisions engines. Take away the engine, take away the brand, that is why in the Pontiac world they are not popular.;)

Don

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Wayne, here is your chance, this car is for sale. Do you want my friends number, it's a beautiful car.

Don

Don, to be honest with you, I may be interested in a teen car. Had a new friend offer me one on the Founders last week.

I also told the wife I may buy a Model T driver just so I can attend the Model T Tour in Savannah next year. I have always wanted to attend one of Nevy Clark's great tours.

To anyone interested in tours, it's the best, most funnest(:)), things you will ever do in life.

Wayne

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Wayne, in keeping with our topic, I think it is possible the cars of, say, 1915-24 are the most underrated ERA of old cars.

I have been researching a few orphan cars of this period and it seems to me the problem is that at this time brass was gone, chrome had not been invented yet, and colors and styles were often kind of drab and similar looking. For this and other reasons I think we collectors have kind of ignored them. This is a group of cars that are potentially a great buy and a lot of fun, will be interested in what you are looking at, Todd C

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Ford Mavericks 1970-1977.

They are one of those cars that everyone had, or knew someone that did. They got used up, and put down. Parts are few and far between, to restore one takes more effort, and money than any Mustang or Camaro. It's not like you can open a catalog and order every part...Sure there is one company that has a catalog, but it's most mechanical pieces.

Whenever I drive mine, people wave at me, if I go to a cruise in, sometimes I can't get out of the car, people flock to it. Everyone has a story to tell.

I had atleast one, since 1988, so it's a hard habit to quit...sure I'd love a model T or an A, but those will have to wait, I'm restoring another Maverick first.

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Since a couple of my cars have been mentioned I can't help but add my 2¢

'73-'89 Mercedes SL (107 bodies). I have a '77. For the dismal 70's I agree it was a pretty decent car. But it is heavy, gets poor mileage and is hardly a sports car. In fact, if you look at the evolution of the SL series, what came before and what came after the 107's were much better cars for their time. Yes you can find them today for a lot less than the 230 to 280 SL series, but the 107's were basically semi-sports cars with sedan drivetrains that did not break any new ground. That and the fact that so many were built over so many years will never raise them to collectible status in my opinion.

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Heavy? Poor mileage? Hardly a sports car? So what? You could say the same about a Duesenberg, 57 Tbird and lots of other cars. If you own one you must know they are a good reliable well made car with quality from bumper to bumper. I still say they were about the last high quality car at all comparable to the classics of the thirties or the expensive European cars of the fifties.

Whether they will ever be worth big money, I cannot say. I do know that in the mid 70s you could buy the best Mercedes Gullwing in the world for $10000 but no one would touch them because they were too expensive to repair and everyone knew they would never be a classic.

Every other open Mercedes ever built has eventually found its niche, and gone on to appreciate dramatically. Maybe the SL will be the first one in history to break the trend.

On the other hand, if you can buy one for $10000 to $20000 in top shape, care for it and drive it on sunny days for the rest of your life with minimal upkeep, who cares? I bet they would let you attend car shows and cruise nights the same as if you had a rare, expensive car. (sarcasm) along with the Camaros and MGs.

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The 1965 Chevrolet Impala Super Sport coupe and the lesser Impala Sport Coupe have always remained in the shadows of their respective predecessors ('62-'64s with the simulated convertible roof line and the bubble top '61) on the collector market. Ironically, the 1965s were the #1 sellers when new with the Impala Super Sport reaching its peak that year. Many also agree that the styling of the full-size Chevrolets also reached their peak in 1965. In fact, all the 1965 full-size GM cars look great, particularly the semi-fastback 2-door hardtop versions of the Buick Wildcat, and Pontiac Bonneville.

Recently, there was a totally original '65 Impala S/S with 38,441 miles on ebay. I was enthralled to see one in this condition since a majority of these cars have been cut up, modified and destroyed. Sady, it was bid up to only $17,800 and did not sell. Perhaps it was due to the fact that this car had the 283 and Powerglide.

Chevrolet : Impala | eBay

Joe

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Heavy? Poor mileage? Hardly a sports car? So what? You could say the same about a Duesenberg, 57 Tbird and lots of other cars. If you own one you must know they are a good reliable well made car with quality from bumper to bumper. I still say they were about the last high quality car at all comparable to the classics of the thirties or the expensive European cars of the fifties...

Rusty, you certainly made me smile today...

As a member of the Auburn-Cord Duesenberg Club and the owner of a '34 Auburn Phaeton as well at the 450SL, I got a kick out of your description of a Duesy. They are heavy, not exactly a sports car, and certainly get terrible gas mileage, too. Of course they are a lot more... like the most powerful automobile made for decades to come and every one of the 400 or so made, custom-bodied pieces of rolling art.

The 107 SL's are very good, solid cars just like the 240D's, 300E's and the other Mercedes made during that period. A good one is well worth the current prices they are getting, probably won't lose value in the years to come, and I don't hesitate to suggest a 107 Mercedes to someone who wants a well made 2-seater from that forgettable era. But I don't think they will ever be collectible and I have a hard time agreeing with your comparison with the classics of the '30's since I own one of those too. It's like comparing Barry Bonds and Babe Ruth (OK maybe Bonds is a bad example). 107's are just too common and without any engineering or design feature that advanced the technology of the day other than the fact that Mercedes had much better build-quality than most cars of the 70's and 80's.

So I guess as an owner of a '73-89 SL, I have to agree and say I like them too. They are solid, reasonably fun to drive and should last for years to come if cared for. I just don't find them "Underrated" or especially collectible which was the question of the original poster.

Edited by 34ACD (see edit history)
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I bought a '65 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible off the local show room floor and of all the brand new cars I ever bought, this one was the biggest disappointment. It did not handle well, the seats were the poorest bucket seat design I ever saw, one weekend on the road in it would put my back in misery for the next week, and I never knew after changing oil if it would make it to the next change without adding any or if 500 miles after the change I would be adding a quart or two. At that time I put close to 25,000 miles a year on a car plus over 10,000 on a pickup. In eleven months I put less than 11,000 miles on the car and was piling the miles on my pickup. So to my way of thinking the '65 Chevrolet is definitely not a sleeper. As for the statement about the '65 Buick Wildcat I always thought that would be the perfect car to mount a continental kit on with the kit mounted with a forward tilt instead of upright. Never did it though because at that time I only bought convertibles to play with and pickups to work with. From 1963 to 1975 I was never without a convertible.

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68&69 AMC Javelin and AMX. Good performance, sporty looks, much more affordable than Mustangs and Camaros of the same vintage. Also will turn heads at a car show because you don't see very many of them.

Every AMC/Rambler/Nash/etc. is underrated. I think you have to go back to the brass era to find one that isn't at or near the bottom of the Antique Value Guide price charts. If Chevy had built the 1964 V8 Typhoon or 1957 Rebel there'd be major single marque clubs dedicated to them.

They deserve better.:(

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In reading about the 107 series MB I would have to agree with Rusty in thinking these are underrated cars, especially when compared to other contemporaries from the same era. Only because it seems like a lot of car for the money. A lot like the first generation Mustang, a plentiful supply may be the main thing that keeps values down. But that does not mean it would not be a great car to own as long as you do not have unrealistic expecations on appreciation. Probably another case of buy the best you can afford though, because a project seems like it would put you upside down in no time. I really like the "Pagoda" cars but I am not sure I would consider them underrrated, as values seem to be all over the lot but the later bigger engine models are no longer bargains.

BTW, ACD34, you have a couple of nice rides! My comments on Auburns were based in part on I believe a '35 roadster whose owner regularly supports our local spring show. The car is an old resto but still near perfect, and in discussing values, I cannot believe the gap between that and a speedster. Some people with replicas are actually asking close to what this car books at??!

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Me too, because these cars were the end of an era. But look on Ebay and you will see most go unsold. A few are ridiculously priced, but most are decent cars for low prices, and they just don't sell. I got mine for almost half price after it sat for months after an estate sale. There are fewer Imperial/New Yorkers for sale, but they still do not sell, or command any money.

Most 1970's luxury, full-size, non-pony/muscle mid-size, and personal luxury coupes sell for pretty much nothing. Cadillacs and Buicks seem to fair a slightly better than Ford and Chrysler products. But I still think these are the most underappreciated cars on this list. You can buy mint ones for less than half or even 1/4 of what all the other cars in this thread sell for.

I had the chance to drive a '78 Town Car for a while, it was VERY NICE ! Many of my passengers were impressed with the car , so much so, they said the Town Car road better then the Cadillacs..

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In reading about the 107 series MB I would have to agree with Rusty in thinking these are underrated cars, especially when compared to other contemporaries from the same era. Only because it seems like a lot of car for the money. A lot like the first generation Mustang, a plentiful supply may be the main thing that keeps values down. But that does not mean it would not be a great car to own as long as you do not have unrealistic expecations on appreciation. Probably another case of buy the best you can afford though, because a project seems like it would put you upside down in no time. I really like the "Pagoda" cars but I am not sure I would consider them underrrated, as values seem to be all over the lot but the later bigger engine models are no longer bargains.

BTW, ACD34, you have a couple of nice rides! My comments on Auburns were based in part on I believe a '35 roadster whose owner regularly supports our local spring show. The car is an old resto but still near perfect, and in discussing values, I cannot believe the gap between that and a speedster. Some people with replicas are actually asking close to what this car books at??!

Thanks, Steve.

I'm an Auburn guy but I can't tell you why the speedsters (at least the 35-36's) are so high priced compared to the other open Auburns except that they have always been the consummate head-turner. I don't think there is another car with more replica versions. But maybe its the replicas that are truly over-valued. I don't understand $60-70K for any replica.

Speaking of underrated cars, I see that you have a 120 Packard. There is another docent at the museum I work at that has a 115 Packard Convertible Coupe that I admire. I think that the small Packards are every bit as nice as the big Packards of the '30's that have production bodies, yet they have always been treated like poor relations by the Packard purists. I wouldn't argue with adding them to this list of underrated cars.

In deference to you and Rusty, I may be a little biased against my own 450SL because of what it isn't rather than what it is. It has a set of Borrani Record Wire wheels on it (Borrani made them for Mercedes in Europe for a couple of years in the '70's). I look at this sedan-like sports car with a 3-speed automatic sitting in my driveway like its pretending to be a Ferrari... which it clearly isn't the minute you get behind the wheel. It's basically just a sedan with a sporty, 2-seater body and Italian wheels. By comparison, if you've ever driven a 230SL or a 190SL that came before or an SL500 that came after, the 107's are like a truck. The German engineers who developed the 107's called it the "panzerwagen". And as for comparison to a '30's classic, here it is side by side with the Auburn. The only thing they have in common is that they both have wire wheels.

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Edited by 34ACD (see edit history)
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You gotta admire the man who makes fun of his own car! :) They both look just fine for what they are!

In keeping with my own request won't single any cars out but lets just say in the mid-late 70s there were a few cars "pretending" to be something... The MB would be on a very short list of cars of that era I would not mind trying out for comfortable touring, not attacking back roads.. Servicing scares me a bit though, as I have two late model German cars that are fairly complex and I have always heard these were as well, on the other hand I hear they are pretty well built... (We recently acquired a BMW and when I looked for the oil dipstick I was lost. After 10 minutes, I consulted the book and found that there is none - the level is checked electronically!!)

Some of the "longtime" Packard guys do tell me in many ways the Jr. cars were ahead of the Sr. cars in terms of advances, probably due to advantages of mass production; we love ours and someday may have to decide if we really want to move "up" or not. Reality is we could buy another toy for the cost of moving up to a Full Classic Packard. Decisions decsions...

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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You gotta admire the man who makes fun of his own car! :)

Shush... My wife drives it most of the time and considers it her baby. After I had put a couple of years of work into the Auburn and said that's good enough for a driver, she came to me and said she wanted an "old" car too. Except it had to have air-conditioning. Hmmm...

So we found the Mercedes for a couple of $Thousand. I put about $4000 into it. New German soft top and carpet, interior out of a pristine but wrecked '89 560SL (much better seats than the 450 and an arm rest), and bought Loni Anderson's unused 560SL hardtop to match off Ebay for $130. Then I took off the 300E alloy wheels it came with that were just wrong for the car. I was going to get a set of reproduction steel wheels that were right for the 450SL, but came across the Borrani's off a European SL and couldn't resist. Like I said, I have never considered the car to be a true collectible so although it's a bit "wrong" for a 450, it's all period and intended for a 107 Mercedes.

Tuning up a '70's 107 isn't too difficult. Mechanical fuel injection that's easy to set the mixture, adjustable distributor timing but with electronic points, and everything pretty easy to get to. The only thing I don't like is making sure all of the vacuum lines are connected, but that's the '70's for you.

Don't get me wrong. It's a nice, solid car and I enjoy driving it when she lets me. But I would trade it in a heartbeat for a 230SL if I could. Of course, I'd hear it about the lack of air conditioning...

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One car that has particularly fascinated me is the 1952 - 1957 Nash Ambassador and Statesman. Okay, the "Pinanfarina" styling (which, apparently, really wasn't Pinanfarina's design) was out of the mainstream, and this became increasingly true as they reached the end of the line in 1957.

But have you checked out the interiors of these cars? And have you driven or ridden in one? Advertising touted them as great "travel cars", and some owners have confirmed this to me.

It seems to me that these cars deserve more recognition than they receive. I think that they would be a cool, out-of-the-ordinary choice for driving tours and other collector car events.

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What is it with this thread? It seems like I've had most of the cars mentioned.

One of the first cars I drove regularly was a '52 Ambassador—my mother's car. I haven't thought about it in years. It did have deep, extremely comfortable seats and armrests and I remember it also had fantastic ventilation. The main problem with it was that it was heavy and about the most under-powered car I have ever driven, even with the 4-speed hydramatic it came with. I mean you could just hear that poor flathead 6 straining to get the thing moving from every stop. Of course I was only 16 and had it floored most of the time. I think my dad figured I must have had something to do with the fact that the rod bearings finally gave out.

I have no idea what they sell for these days if you can find one. Maybe they are a real under-rated treasure. The overturned bathtub styling isn't for everyone but I agree it would be pretty cool on a tour.

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34ACD I think you are expecting too much of your Mercedes. They are not a sports car. They weren't even trying to be a sports car. Mercedes knows sports cars and believe me, your car was never meant to be a sports car.

Therefore it seems harsh and unfair to criticize it for not being a sports car.

I would put the Mercedes SL in the personal luxury camp along with the Thunderbird convertible, Jaguar XJS, Buick Riviera and similar cars.

There are olderMercedes convertibles that are likewise not sports cars yet they are desirable cars just the same, and have considerable collector value. It would not surprise me if the SL followed suit.

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All these "under-rated" cars & their less expensive price tag comes as good news to us folks that can't afford a Bentley or Lamborghini.

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Then how about Lincoln Versailles (especially the 79 with the long roofline and longer rear doors) or Mercury Monarch/Ford Granada 1975-79. And same era Chrysler's, Cordoba, Newport or Dodge Diplomat. I always liked the 1976 upscale Buick Electra 225 Limited Coupe................so many cars of this era you never see anymore.

Don

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Then how about Lincoln Versailles (especially the 79 with the long roofline and longer rear doors) or Mercury Monarch/Ford Granada 1975-79. And same era Chrysler's, Cordoba, Newport or Dodge Diplomat. I always liked the 1976 upscale Buick Electra 225 Limited Coupe................so many cars of this era you never see anymore.

Don

Ahhh, not so much.

Some folks might like those cars for collecting but, there not the type of cars I'm interested in (no offense). I knew folks that owned many of the cars you listed years ago and they were nice cars.

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Ahhh, not so much.

Some folks might like those cars for collecting but, there not the type of cars I'm interested in (no offense). I knew folks that owned many of the cars you listed years ago and they were nice cars.

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No offence taken, not everyone likes the same type of anything. In my state I don't see very much collected or at least showing up at car shows from 1976-on. In my state the 1976 and newer cars have to be emission tested indefinitely, must have all emission devises working. That is not a bad thing in itself, but to have to go through all of this in a car that is driven less than say twenty times a year isn't worth it. People don't want to get stuck with a hot potato they can't buy or find parts for, especially emission related parts. Really sad because I see a huge gap of history in car collecting. The cars as a whole are very affordable as I said in my earlier post above about the 1979 Coupe de Ville.

Don

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Sometimes I catch myself thinking that no one will ever collect cars later than the 60's because everything after will become shells of themselves once the plastic falls off, or suffer from a bland Honda Civic sameness. But then I realize that it's just my myopic vision and the fact that I too am a relic of that earlier time.

Without question there is someone out there collecting 1980's computers, cell phones and video games and thinking about forming an "American Antique Electronics Club" which will have an annual swap meet in Cupertino where thousands will meet annually to swap motherboards and copies of Pac-Man and Visicalc. Car collecting will be come the quaint pastime of a few old codgers like those who collect saddles and civil war memorabilia today.

Who knows what will be valuable tomorrow? Collect what you are passionate about and let the future sort out the rest.

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This one's easy for me. I have always said the 63-64 Buick Electra 63-64 Oldsmobile 98 are very underrated. I am not saying this is a bad thing, though, as you can find a very nice unrestored fully operational loaded one of these for under $5000, sometimes they are almost give-away priced. I love the way these two cars drive down the highway, and have personally put over 120,000 miles on a 64 Electra coupe with no, and I am serious, no major mechanical problems other than needing some brake pads and general tune-up stuff. These cars look great in convertibles, coupes, and 4 doors. The 64 98 and 64 Electra 4 door 4 window hardtop is a great and sporty looking car.

1960 Edsels are also underrated to me. Yes, I know, it is a 60 Ford with a goofy grille and stretched 60 Pontiac taillights, but unless it is a convertible, their prices don't reflect their obscenely low production numbers.

There are definitely more, but these are the two that first jump to mind.

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Lincoln Mark III-V which can be easily had for cheap, good ones still exist

Lincoln Mark VII- Cool design not yet collectable

Chrysler Cordoba- Soft Corinthian Leather!

1988-1990- Chevrolet Corsica- I think these will be collectable, they were a shift in GM policy and were very different than anything on the road and paved the way to the 1990's, but, only good examples (which are rare!)

1970's-1980's Caprice

Oldsmobile products

Older cars:

1940-1948 Dodge cars- relatively cheap for a reliable and easy to work on classic

1957-1962 Chrysler Imperial, etc.

Desoto

Edsel

Early Chevrolet prior to 1930

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No offence taken, not everyone likes the same type of anything. In my state I don't see very much collected or at least showing up at car shows from 1976-on. In my state the 1976 and newer cars have to be emission tested indefinitely, must have all emission devises working. That is not a bad thing in itself, but to have to go through all of this in a car that is driven less than say twenty times a year isn't worth it. People don't want to get stuck with a hot potato they can't buy or find parts for, especially emission related parts. Really sad because I see a huge gap of history in car collecting. The cars as a whole are very affordable as I said in my earlier post above about the 1979 Coupe de Ville.

Don

True in CA it is that way. However, I have never had a problem passing smog with my 78 Mark V, if you keep the car maintained you should never have a problem and I pay $40 every two years for smog. Eventually they will move the date forward as the years go on. I could see a 1980 cut off date.

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True in CA it is that way. However, I have never had a problem passing smog with my 78 Mark V, if you keep the car maintained you should never have a problem and I pay $40 every two years for smog. Eventually they will move the date forward as the years go on. I could see a 1980 cut off date.

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The problem arises when you can't get a new sensor that's throwing a code and you can't pass the test with a check engine light on. Hundreds of different electronic parts for different cars that nobody makes parts for will be the problem. Scenarios like that are already showing up in mid 70's cars. California used to have it's testing program exempt for cars 25 years or older and now just has the cut off at 1975. Arizona emission test to a 1968 cut off. Seems like whatever happens here usually ends up in other states. I have never had a problem passing smog with my 76 Olds, however it may come a day that my TVS switch goes bad, or the EFE is bad and I won't be able to get these parts anymore.

Don

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Gotta know where to take it! LOL! But, seriously I dont have codes on the MK V I dont think there is even a plug in, most of the instrument panel are things like overheating, alternator, etc. most of which work occasionally. My friend's 1988 Corsica had an alternator going bad, and it never gave him a warning, it just kicked off. What is an EFE?

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Gotta know where to take it! LOL! But, seriously I dont have codes on the MK V I dont think there is even a plug in, most of the instrument panel are things like overheating, alternator, etc. most of which work occasionally. My friend's 1988 Corsica had an alternator going bad, and it never gave him a warning, it just kicked off. What is an EFE?

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EFE system is Early Fuel Evaporation system. This take place of the old exhaust manifold bi-metal spring controlling the heat riser exhaust going to heat up the intake manifold. In other words there is a more complex/more accurate way of controlling the heat riser heat gasses by use of a vacuum actuator, and the actuator is controlled by a Thermal Vacuum Switch which senses temperature by being screwed into the cylinder head coolant gallery. Besides these things 1976 Olds have in their emission systems; AIR, BPT, CC, CTVS, DTVS, DVDV, EEC, EFECV, EFE-TVS, EGR, EFE/EGR-TVS, EFE-OTVS, EGRCV, EGR-TCV, EGR-TVS, EGR-VDV, PVC, SAVM, TAC, TAC-TVC, and last but not least VRV. That is just 1976 Oldsmobile! Do you think someone is going to have these parts if you fail emissions testing twenty years from now?? Let's just move forward five years to the 1981 model year when almost all makes have added electronic fuel in injection:eek:

Don

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Without question there is someone out there collecting 1980's computers, cell phones and video games and thinking about forming an "American Antique Electronics Club" which will have an annual swap meet in Cupertino where thousands will meet annually to swap motherboards and copies of Pac-Man and Visicalc. Car collecting will be come the quaint pastime of a few old codgers like those who collect saddles and civil war memorabilia today.

Who knows what will be valuable tomorrow? Collect what you are passionate about and let the future sort out the rest.

Funny you should mention that cause I often think about how well todays cars (tomorrows classics ?) will hold up when they hit 20, 30, or even 50yrs old. Like previously mentioned, will the plastic body pieces crumble to dust? How will the on-board computer systems handle the test of time ?

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"The problem arises when you can't get a new sensor that's throwing a code and you can't pass the test with a check engine light on."

Easy peasy, just cut the wire and connect it to the oil light. : )

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That's cute. And when the inspector plugs in the State's emission testing equipment to talk to your ECM? Or even on older OBD1 cars the guy checks for codes directly from your ECM?? I can hear it now " I didn't know how that converter overheated to the point of melting the undercoating off the underside of the car officer---the check engine light never came on".

I have seen converters actually cherry red while doing testing of emission devises to see in "what if scenarios" Please don't tell people to do that Rusty.

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Last Friday I took my '07 Cadillac to the guy who works on my daily drivers. I asked him to hook up his computer and tell me which of my cylinders had an intermittent miss, and why. I couldn't understand why he looked at me funny. Could it be because it's a 1907 Cadillac, and only has one cylinder? And no place to plug in a computer?

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

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Underrated cars? Well I haven't heard these mentioned, so they must be underrated....

1. Pre and Post-war Desotos. Think Ritchie Cunningham and Happy Days, and those cars were/are underappreciated.

2. Non-high performance Plymouths. Funny how you could get 98% of a Plymouth GTX or Road Runner in a Coronet or a Satellite (including the Hemi), yet no one really gets excited when those come up for auction these days.

3. Pseudo or near-luxury cars. Impala? Impala SS? Gotta have it! '69 Caprice? Ho-hum....yet I have seen more factory 427s in a Caprice than an Impala.... If you go look at a factory brochure for a 60's Caprice, it really was a cheap Cadillac!

4. ANY strippo that was used as a cop car. But, in the immortal words of the Blues Brothers..."it's got a cop motor, cop shocks....and it runs good on regular gas." BTW, if you watch closely here in Texas, every once in a while a small town down here will sell their old police car COMPLETE...including the radio, lights, markings....everything but the shotgun (available at Wal-Mart, of course). And, in Texas, they are legal to drive that way!

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I've recently aquired a 68 912 Porsche, never had a Porsche before but I really like the way it performs. I hope someday it will be as much as 356's are.

The 912 is indeed a great car--good for you, Greg! Wonderful touring car! Plus you have the "heart" of a 356! What color is it? My wife had a black '67 912 several years ago, and we had a lot of fun with it.

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Would have to say that the '66-'67 Olds Toronados and the sixties Buick Rivieras defined personal luxury of that era, and yet are undervalued IMO. To a lesser degree, the personal luxury cars I love from the early '60s ('61-'66 Olds Starfires, and the Pontiac Grand Prixes and even the Buick Wildcats from their inceptions in '62 to the mid-'60s anyways), are popular and hold their own with the people who know them, but can't understand why the dime-a-dozen muscle cars that followed are valued so much more, given that the performance of the big beasts was nothing to sneeze at.

And, you can get a whole lot of car for the money with the big boats like the Olds Ninety-Eights, Pontiac Bonnevilles, and Buick Electra 225s from the early to mid-'60s--as long as they fit into your garage...

I'm just talking GM, minus Chevy and Cadillac, but the big iron from Ford and Mopar during those times can sometimes be had for decent money that isn't too exhorbitant...

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