points off for Tire Dressing

[checker]

Many rumors go around the show field concerning point deductions. Last year at Hershey I was told points are taken off for using a tire dressing like Armor All. Is this true? I can almost understand the logic of "it did not come that way from the factory" but neither did a coat of wax on the paint. I'm guessing the wax is not a deduction. Doug

[Shop Rat]

I personally have never experienced hearing that a judge took off points for tire shine. But then I haven't seen a vehicle on an AACA show field that had it on as thick as I have seen it on local shows. :eek: The owners that I have observed using it sprayed it on and then buffed most of it off giving the tires that new out of the wrapper look.

[GrayCav56]

Kinda reminds me of the way the Soviets used to "detail" the tanks they would parade around East Berlin after they saw the American Berlin Brigade put shiny tire black on their jeep tires....

They'd paint the outer rims and center caps of each road wheel white and put bright colors on their vehicles identification numbers. Some were even painted with high gloss green paint.

Ours were clean and well maintained, but after we discarded the bright white stars for subdued black ones we couldn't compete for pizzaz.

Even the Russians quit after a while..but in the May Day parades in Red Square they still put on the Ritz sometimes!

Edited April 19, 2011 by GrayCav56 (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Key would be to find a "tire shine" that has a more natural gloss to it? Too shiney looks out of place to me, but some of the more natural, low gloss, protectants look more natural to me.

NTX5467

[Guest jgferris]

I think the question is, does the car come off the assembly line with the shine on the tires? If not, then......

[stealthbob]

I think the question is, does the car come off the assembly line with the shine on the tires? If not, then......

Its this kind of extreme standard that makes me not ever want to have my project judged....

Shinny tires?

Yeash

This falls into the "Over Restored" debate...with show chrome and 15 coat paint jobs. Points deducted for super bright flawless chrome and a nice paint finnish....now add shiny tires?

[Shop Rat]

.....This falls into the "Over Restored" debate...with show chrome and 15 coat paint jobs. Points deducted for super bright flawless chrome and a nice paint finnish....now add shiny tires?

Over restored is not deducted for. Only incorrect restorations are deducted for. Some may feel that over restored is incorrect restoration, but the AACA rules state otherwise. Some over restoration is unavoidable as has been discussed here MANY times.

[stealthbob]

So then should shiny tires be considered as an "Over Restoration" and not some points deduction?

I really want to be correct in every way...its just when I see that something as trivial as the shine on some tries causing an issue I think to myself why bother to try and please someones opinion on what is acceptable?

I have never gone through the process, quite the opposite...I am extremely new to all this. I am now in the throws of a full and complete restoration and want to be correct in every way. I can say though that I will have a very nice paint job, bright chrome and yes my tires just may be a shining as well....judging standards not withstanding.

[Guest my3buicks]

The day I would be deducted for having a dressing on my tires would be the last day I would show my vehicles in that club or venue.

[Shop Rat]

As I said in an above post, the folks that I have seen that applied tire dressing at AACA Meets sprayed on a thin coating and then buffed it back off leaving the tires with the look of a new in the showrooom tire. The tires were not "shiny" in the sense that they looked like a 50's hood's D.A. haircut :cool: ....if you get my drift.

[Guest elmo39]

susan you are quite right the tyres were never shiny , if any thing they would have been classed xtra low gloss , now as for DA hair cuts and hoods , i had a DA hair cut way back in 1956 i was sixteen , i never ever considered i was a hood , it ( if i can say this without being laughed at )was back then the cool thing ,now i never berate my grand kids for there hair cuts

[Guest elmo39]

as an addition , yes i know what DA means , i go duck shooting , and without fail when i bag a mallard drake , i always put the DA feathers in my hat , i only wish that i still had enough hair left to support a DA hair style .

[Restorer32]

Growing up in Dad's tire shop one of my jobs was to paint used tires with a mixture of black enamel thinned with gasoline. It made used tires look new, more or less.

[tbirdman]

I think anyone using Armor All for anything on a car should be deducted points:o That junk is the worst thing for cars. I laugh when I see how much people put on their cars as not only is it bad for what ever you are putting it on, it looks very unnatural. Save the wet look for your hair.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Peter J.Heizmann (see edit history)

[Guest Siegfried]

Silicone is the primary ingredient in tire dressing, and vinyl dressing (aka Armorall). It sure does produce a shine. However silicone is NOT a natural ingredient in rubber, or vinyl, and it does more harm than good. Silicone does NOT protect it just shines. Get some on tour car exterior paint, and learn all about fish eyes if you do a repaint without having done a real good chemical removal on the paint prior to sanding.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Head on down to an auto parts store and buy a gallon, or two of rubber preservative and apply it to your tires and door seals. It will NOT give off a hard shine. The shine you'll get will be the natural rubber shine, and it will protect in the process. <o:p></o:p>

Get genuine vinyl protectant for your vinyl interior items. <o:p></o:p>

[Guest resq302]

Ive always had good luck with using Meguiars #39 heavy duty vinyl cleaner for my vinyl products such as my seats and vinyl top and then for rubber and vinyl conditioning, I use Meguiars #40 Vinyl / Rubber cleaner and conditioner. With having a pearl white vinyl top and a white interior, I can attest as to how much of a pain it is to keep these items clean, especially with driving the car on highways getting diesel soot all over my car. So far, with light scrubbing and this product, it comes right out. As for the tires, it leaves a nice semi gloss shine. Not too dull and certainly not that shiny. It also prevents the rubber from turning brown with aging too!

[Guest Siegfried]

I forgot about the Meguilar's #39 & #40 products, and have used them in the past with superb results. They are probably the best out there.

[checker]

I saw the recommendation for Meguiars #40 last week and looked for it at Pep Boys and Autozone but had no luck. Where do you folks buy it at? I see it on line but don't feel like paying $15 for shipping.

[Guest Siegfried]

Hi Checker. I usually buy mine at Hershey. There is always a Meguliars dealer on the Green Field beside the Giant Center on the west side. Also, try an auto body supply shop that carries the top of the line Meguliars products. Yes, there are two grades. There is the Meguliars sold by Pep Boys, Advance Auto, etc, and then there is the super Meguliars sold to the professional trade. The Professional level products will simply astound you. These guys get it all!

[Guest AlK]

Over restored is not deducted for. Only incorrect restorations are deducted for. Some may feel that over restored is incorrect restoration, but the AACA rules state otherwise. Some over restoration is unavoidable as has been discussed here MANY times.

I will lay this out here because I have wanted to say something about it for a long time. I mentioned earlier in this post that I have been judged once in an AACA event and will not again. Here's why. My 55 Packard Patrician is no where near an AACA winner, but even if it were, until ALL AACA judges have a PHD in judging there is no way they can insure that this situation does not happen again. I do hold out the final 5% that the judge checked the wrong box, but this is what happened. In the late 90's I was at the AACA show in Montgomery Al. when the show was held at the Depot. I spent the previous evening cleaning my car to the 9's. When I got all of my paperwork and was put in line I spent another long period cleaning the interior. Can you envision eating Ham + Eggs of the seats. That is how clean my interior was. There was not a spec of dirt anywhere to be found for I had my wife(who is the clean freak in the family) go over it. Later in the year when I got my judging sheet I looked at the area for interior. Now I knew where I should have gotten dinged because when I bought my Packard it did not have the original seat covers it had black and white tuck and roll seat covers(can you say not original). What did the judge put down???? She took off the full allotment of points for CLEANLINESS and not a point for originality. Now granted she may not have known it was not original, but that is where the judging team leader should go over all of the sheets and make sure that everything is correct. I don't remember for sure, but I may have benefitted from that mistake because I think(NOT SURE) that the points were not the same for the 2 categories, but nonetheless, it should not have happened. I know we are all human, but I have been an AACA member since 1983 and in all that time I have heard AACA's claims about its judging classes and such. With all that this kind of error should not happen.

Just my $.02 oooopppppsssss maybe more like $.97 worth.

[sambarn]

Al, One of the first things that apprentice judges are taught is that perfection is unattainable, that each judge will make mistakes both in paperwork and performance. AACA has proven that even though different judges will see and deduct different items, a car will usually score consistently as it participates in the AACA judging system. A 385 point car is a 385 point car, a 300 point a 300 point car. You have admitted that the amount of points was not wrong, simply that the judge on a screaming hot Spring day in downtown Montgomery, the heat and humidity rising off the Alabama River just blocks away, simply put the mark in the wrong box. That is a bit critical and an awfully long time to hold a grudge over a clerical error on a vehicle you have also admitted is by no means a "Show Car". If it seems that I am taking this a little strongly, I am. I was there. The Montgomery region were fabulous folks who were a bit short handed if I remember correctly and were under the leadership of this grumpy, past AACA president from Huntsville as Chief Judge. I drove to down to Montgomery to spend time with my father, the previously mentioned grumpy Chief Judge and he was harried and sweaty and got to spend very little time with his new grandson because he cared so much about making the AACA judging system fair for the cars that had come to the city of Montgomery and promoted the AACA message in our state. I do wish you could forgive what all seem to agree was a simple clerical error and not let this small cloud darken your enjoyment of the club or the hobby any longer.

[sambarn]

And if judging is still not your thing, There is always the 2013 Founders tour in Huntsville to look forward to. The North Alabama Region are a great group of folks and I feel confident they will host one heck of a tour.

[Shop Rat]

..... She took off the full allotment of points for CLEANLINESS and not a point for originality. .....

How could you possibly know that? Scores are NEVER revealed to owners. And the person that sent the copy of your judging sheet would not have done that. They would have sent a highlighted copy of where points were taken off. But the area being highlighted does not mean that the full allotment of points was taken off.

I take your word that the car was every bit as clean as you say it was. Based on that something is amiss if a judge took a lot of points off for cleanliness. Did you question that at the time?

[MCHinson]

AlK,

Was that an AACA National Meet or a local Region Meet? If it was a national meet, you should only know what areas deductions were taken in... but not the number of points deducted. The quality of judging can vary greatly between the two. Also, I don't think that it is quite fair to judge the AACA Judging system based on one experience over a decade ago.

Any system using human beings is subject to a mistake every now and then. If you are interested in a judged meet, you can't do much better than an AACA National Meet. I have been to quite a few in many parts of this country in the last several years. The quality of the judging is usually quite high....Not perfect, but consistently the quality is high.

[Guest AlK]

Susan

There was no way to know at the time, I did not get the judging sheet until weeks later. If you like I will try to dig up the judging sheet and show it to you. I may have mis-stated a bit. It did highlite the deductions. If memory serves me correctly 5 points off for cleanliness were deducted, no points deducted for originality. Now what other conclusion do you come up with for that. Having seen an AACA judging sheet I believe that the cleanliness full deduction at that time was 5 points and the originality was 10. I could be wrong because as was stated it was about 15 years ago and I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast this morning.

All of you have valid comments but let's make this clear, I am not casting aspersions on anyones family tree. However you only get one chance to make a good first impression and in this case that was enough.

Sambarn:

You may have been there, but it was not that hot, I went thru only 1 towel wiping off sweat, and we were under cover, not out in the sun. As for the grumpy chief judge, not an acceptable excuse. If those circumstances are going to get in the way of doing the job at hand then bow out and let someone else take over. Also if you read my post, I never said my car was not a "show car" if that were the case I would not have a wall full of trophies. I said my car was not an AACA winner. As for darkening my view of AACA, the hobby etc. if that were true I would have dropped out of AACA back then and sold all my cars and gotten out completely, that has not and will not happen. I am merely trying to point out that when an error that seems so puny to others, may not be to others. This one is the only one I really centered on as you can tell. I did not even look at the sheet for the rest of the point deduction, however my reasoning is if such a small thing as that can happen and not get caught, then what else is lurking in there.

Mchinson:

I am not judging the entire AACA judging system. I am saying a mistake was made that should not have been made. Once bitten twice shy.

[Shop Rat]

Susan

There was no way to know at the time, I did not get the judging sheet until weeks later. If you like I will try to dig up the judging sheet and show it to you. I may have mis-stated a bit. It did highlite the deductions. If memory serves me correctly 5 points off for cleanliness were deducted, no points deducted for originality. Now what other conclusion do you come up with for that. Having seen an AACA judging sheet I believe that the cleanliness full deduction at that time was 5 points and the originality was 10. I could be wrong because as was stated it was about 15 years ago and I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast this morning. .....

I would indeed be interested to see the form, as I am sure other judges here would be, if you can find it.

As I stated above, just because an area was highlighted does not mean that all the points were taken off. There are mandatory deductions but on the form those have a circle around the number and we must take that amount off. You can view a current form in the on-line Official Judging Guidelines.

You didn't say if it was a National Meet or one done by a local Region or Chapter as a "local show" but not an official National Meet. Some Regions and Chapters do even local shows according to the AACA National Meet standards and some don't.

[Guest Siegfried]

I have a a two questions, and one statement concerning the judging sheet that was sent out to the car owner.

1. Was the response sent by AACA National headquarters in Hershey?

2. Where on the national meet judging sheet is there category for cleaniness?

I don't recall ever seeing it.

3. Car shows put on by an AACA region are NOT national meets unless the

national oganization is directly involved as in Hershey, Stowe, etc.

[Guest AlK]

I am almost positive that it was a National meet, but would not bet my next paycheck on it. I will try to find the sheet that I got.

[Shop Rat]

Thanks for the effort to find the sheet Alk. Hopefully it will shed some light on this issue and will help sort this out.

If it turns out it was a local show, and not a National Meet, then my hope is that you will give the AACA another chance as far as a National Meet with all guidelines that go with that if you would like to do that.

For the average owner it is not life and death. I do understand that when someone brings a vehicle, or more than one, in the hopes of doing well to get more patrons for their restoration facility it is life or death to them. Winners bring in more customers. At Charlotte in the class I judged there were two cars that had been brought in by a professional restorer. The cars were nicely done and he did well.

To the owner that did all, or most, of the work to do well gives them a sense of pride in their own accomplishments.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Shop Rat (see edit history)

[Peter J.Heizmann]

To all: Please get back to the thread's title "points off for Tire Dressing".

ALK, I sent you a PM.

Thank you,

Peter J.

[Guest Siegfried]

Peter you are correct . The judging question should be another topic. I'll maybe respond again if the topic comes up as a new Forum question. Until then, bye, bye.

[Restorer32]

At least on current AACA judging sheets there is no specified deduction under Interior for Cleanliness. Don't think there was in the '90s either. Possibly the judge took the mandatory 10 point deduction for Incorrect Material?

[Guest windjamer]

I have never dedocted pts. for shinny tires and I vary much dislike them. I did deduct for white walls that where grimey and scuffed. I feel if the owner is to blanking lazy to wash them he deserves the deduction.

[checker]

Thanks Dick, I enjoyed your candid comment. Made me chuckle. Until I started this thread I had no idea so many hated shiny wet look tires, as do I. I would never dress up my street car tires with the look but I always felt I had to keep up with the Jones' at the car shows and put it on so heavy it dripped. I will never do it again.

[Guest proxie35]

Speaking of the 2013 Founders Tour, The Founders Tour was started by my friend Ron Barnett, myself & others in Huntsville Al. 1988.

[Dick380185]

I don't think tire dressing should be about the "shine" on the tires, but use of the product should be to enhance the clean appearance of the tire. (BLACKNESS of the rubber)

Nothing spoils the appearance more than dull BROWN and/or splotchy, scuffed tires on an otherwise spotless vehicle, PLUS, new cars did not come with brown tires!

Those who think the shinier the better, are a bit out of touch, IMO.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Dick380185 (see edit history)

[ChryslerMike25]

Hello Doug

I understand your concern. I am somewhat new at this entire experience and it has not be fun. My dad and grandfather shared their many years of experience with the AACA and to be honest, it scared me! After my first judging at Hersey this Fall I just about tore my membership card up and mailed it back. Don't ever give up. It appears you are doing this for a hobby like myself and not for profit.

To learn more I have enrolled for Judging School at the National Meet in Philly next month. I will add your question to my list of questions.

I wonder if the VP of Class Judging ever reads and responds to these forms?

Don't give up Doug and all the best. Oh I did use a tire shine product on my 1926 Chrysler tires. Wipe on, wipe off! Clean, but not shiny! Take some throw away doctor gloves to wear when using that stuff or it will be on your hands and everything al day.

Mike Shaffer

[StillOutThere]

If anyone wants the tires to be literally GLOSSY, that is up to them. I'm a 25 year user of Maguire's Vinyl and Rubber, #40 and use it on tires, glass gaskets, vinyl interior parts, weather seals, hoses ---- everything looks and stays as new.

But another point: To all those who apply ANYTHING to the tread of your tires and then drive the car, what are you thinking? Have you looked at the product to see if it includes SILICONE? Maguires does not but I would NEVER put anything on the tread of a tire and I fear for those of you who do. If I were a judge and tire treads were glossed up, I would find somewhere to deduct a point.

[Bob Hill]

If I were a judge and tire treads were glossed up, I would find somewhere to deduct a point.

While I agree with the deal about putting tire dressing on the treads, to not like it and then find some way to deduct points is in opposition to AACA Judging. Why not take off points because you don't like the color of the car? Or even the make of the car?

I hope you are NOT an AACA Judge !!!!!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

While I agree with the deal about putting tire dressing on the treads, to not like it and then find some way to deduct points is in opposition to AACA Judging. Why not take off points because you don't like the color of the car? Or even the make of the car?

I hope you are NOT an AACA Judge !!!!!

I agree!!!!!

Ben