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Dealer installed factory items


West Peterson
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The best guidance I can give you is that AACA judging is trying to judge a car as it could have come from the factory, not exactly how that particular car came from the factory originally. If a car is restored to a condition that accurately represents the way it could have been ordered from the factory it is OK.

Don't sweat the small stuff. It is a serious hobby, but it is just a hobby. It is not life or death.

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One thing that I have always never understood is that the AACA accepts over restored cars. If a particular car is over restored, it is not deducted points for such yet we are supposed to be judging cars as how they could have come from the factory. Perfect example is suspension components being painted gloss black when they were originally a semi gloss or satin black. To me, if it is not the correct sheen, it is wrong. However, I do agree that if a component was plated, such as zinc or phosphate coated, and you paint it a correct color of that without replating it, it should be acceptable since plating only lasts so long before it starts to oxidize.

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Susan,

My family and I make it a point to stop out at Hershey every year we make our annual trip out to the outlet stores in Lancaster for my wife to shop. Its kinda my shopping, if you will, at the museum and library and research center. Unless they have gotten some new stuff in recently than the last time I was out there, I either have all of the same stuff or it does not pertain to my vehicle. I will, however, contact Chris and see what a new pair of eyes might discover.

Thanks for the suggestion.

As I understand it new items get donated from time to time so you might just luck out. As I have always heard, "It can't hurt to ask". :)

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One thing that I have always never understood is that the AACA accepts over restored cars. If a particular car is over restored, it is not deducted points for such yet we are supposed to be judging cars as how they could have come from the factory. Perfect example is suspension components being painted gloss black when they were originally a semi gloss or satin black. To me, if it is not the correct sheen, it is wrong. However, I do agree that if a component was plated, such as zinc or phosphate coated, and you paint it a correct color of that without replating it, it should be acceptable since plating only lasts so long before it starts to oxidize.

There is over restoration and incorrect restoration. And sometimes it is a fine line between the two. Finishes are accepted if they appear correct even if it was done by powder coating.

Over restoration is hard to avoid in this day and time. Many materials that were used in the factory, or at a dealership to repaint after repairs, say from a wreck, are no longer available due to things like EPA rules.

And as I have pointed out many times, no shop that wants repeat business from the general population is going to put out work like much of it came from the factories. One of the members here, a friend of mine, runs a restoration business and I saw him at Charlotte. I asked him if anyone would bring their vehicles to him if his shop put out the same quality as what came out of some factories. His answer was what I expected, "No."

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On that '56, there appears to me to be several aftermarket items there . . . exhaust "tips", additional trim at the bottom of the front fenders, the particular style of radio antenna (although not swept-back as they were in 1957 and later), and the cross-flags on the front fenders where Ford put their "V-8" emblem in earlier years. The wire wheels are later model, with T-bird style center ornaments. What's on the continental kit would be the add-on wire wheel covers which were available on many other 1954-55 cars. Obviously MORE than Ford ever intended to be there!

The whole issue of "dealer installed" items can be somewhat troublesome. In some cases, they were production items which could be added later (power steering kits, power brake kits, wheel covers, air conditioning but not always of the production "factory air" configuration, radio additions or upgrades, and floor mats. The accessory bumper guards, spotlights, underhood trouble lights, certain styles of floor and trunk mats were in the "factory authorized" realm of dealer-installed accessories, but not production line items, all of which would be in the "Factory Authorized Accessories" brochure for the respective model and year of vehicle. In some cases, dealers might have chosen less expensive (and possibly more readily-available sources than the factory for similar accesssories. Factory authorized curb feelers??

The issue of, for example, 1968 Buick Electra items being factory-installed on a 1968 Buick LeSabre can be more troublesome. Some general option could be there, for sure, but not things like wheel covers, the Wildcat's chrome wheels, a full cruise control rather than a "Speed Minder", and other Electra-specific items. Some sort of factory production option documentation would be needed. I've not known of a manufacturer that would produce a "We installed this part on your vehicle . . ." letter, but they could reproduce a vehicle order sheet or you might find a Dealer Order Guide from a literature vendor which would be the definitive source for these things . . . hopefully with included notifications regarding special sales packages for various times of the model year.

The OTHER thing would be to produce a copy of the build sheet for your vehicle! Chrysler products can be easier with their Data Plates and the many decode books on the market. By the middle 1970s, they were putting the codes on the back of the build sheets, too.

This whole subject can become a nightmare to investigate and administer on the show field. I might question Keith on his Autronic Eye, but if he can produce documentation that it COULD have been there, that's fine. Putting a '68 Electra windshield washer bottle on a '68 LeSabre migth be something which would be overlooked, typically, but they ARE different. It probably would take a build sheet to authenticate a '69 Camaro Z-28 with factory headers and 2x4bbl induction, usually. Who's going to check the carb numbers to see if they are correct?

Still, though, if the "letter of the guideline" states "end of the assembly line condition and equipment" (paraphrasing), then that would outlaw any items which might be dealer-installed, including tissue dispensers. This deal can be a nit-picky as some might want to make it, or it can go the other direction, too.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

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Guest my3buicks

Willis, this will work well to give an example of how to document an item for a judge.

You said. " might question Keith on his Autronic Eye, but if he can produce documentation that it COULD have been there, that's fine.

Here you go Mr judge Willis :D (btw, in 67 it was "Guide-matic"

First is the Buick Approved Accessories brochure showing "Available for ALL Models"

then a page out of the 67 Parts book showing 2.49 part # 981236 Package Guide-matic available on "ALL"

And finally, the installation directions for "Special"

post-30591-143138523408_thumb.jpg

post-30591-14313852345_thumb.jpg

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)
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Guest my3buicks

I save everything when installing anything like this in one of my cars, from the original box, mounting instructions templates for mounting, operating instructions anything and everything. You just never know what you will need.

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I guess we can clone 64-65 LeMans into LeMans GTO's

PONTIAC'S NEW GTO OPTION HAS

BUILT-IN SPORTS CAR APPEAL

Pontiac Motor Division has announced an exciting new 1964

sports car option called the GTO (Grand Turissimo Omologato). Using

a basic Tempest design, it will be available in the LeMans two-door

coupe and convertible.

E.M. Estes, General Motors vice president and Pontiac general

manager, said the GTO affords Pontiac customers an even greater

opportunity to choose an automobile that more closely fits their personal

needs and tastes.

"GTO is a significant addition to Pontiac's list of individualized

sports car developments," Estes said.

Along with many performance options that enhance the sports

car theme, the GTO has its own special styling features including

bucket seats, an engine-turned aluminum instrument panel applique

and stylized air intake castings on each side of the hood panel.

The GTO standard equipment engine is a 389 cubic-inch V-8

that develops 325 horsepower. It has a 10.75:1 compression ratio

and a four-barrel carburetor. A three-speed, floor shift synchromesh

transmission and dual exhaust are standard. Four-speed synchromesh

and automatic transmissions a

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In the world of General Motors, many of the original "muscle car" models were option packages. The Z-28, for example, didn't get to be its own model until the '82 generation of the F-body. The way that Chevy small block V-8s have their "stamp codes" in front of the rh cylinder head, on the block's deck surface, if that block is ever "decked" for rebuilding/blueprinting purposes, that "DZ" Z-28 production block becomes just another Chevy small block 4.00" bore block. With the date code cast into the block behind the distributor, on the flywheel flange, you can suspect it could be correct for the car, but no way to really tie it to being a Z-28 block per se.

On the chassis part of things, there are a FEW things which are Z-28 specific, all the way through to the end of the 1981 model year. Two are related to the particular tire fitment. PM me for more information. Another one is the tachometer, with an appropriately higher orange/red line area, but I seem to recall that the Z-28 tach could also be on a particular 396 V-8, too? There were other items which were available separately which were part of the Z-28 option package, too. So, yes, there are probably MANY clones of these muscle cars--especially GM cars.

When the '82 GM F-body cars came out, they "knew" from the first spot weld if the car would have a 4 cyl, V-6, or V-8 in it. "Purpose Built" was their wording. If the 4cyl was the basic body, then each engine upgrade had additional supports/gussets on the body structure . . . which I verified in the first editions of those parts books. Like many GM things, I believe that after a few model years, they built them "all the same" in order to better streamline production and lower production costs (due to decreased production complexity).

In the world of Chrysler, the cars and engine use are easily documented on the data plate for the vehicle . . . in plain open sight under the hood. That can make it harder to legally have a cloned Chrysler product muscle car. Seems like Ford also had some registration plates, too. The later Chrysler plates were basically the "birth certificate" for the car, similar to the later GM Service Parts IDentification Labels.

Back to the "factory approved accessories" issue. If one might have a vehicle's build sheet, what came on the vehicle is completely documented, as to factory installed equipment, paint, and trim. Same on the Chrysler Data Plate (although there were usually many build sheets on many components of the vehicles--in the seat springs, etc.). I know it was this way in '67, but I know that the data plate existed before that.

I acknowledge Keith's comment about the correct name of his "auto dimming headlight control". In some cases, the same aftermarket vendor supplied similar things to many manufacturers, who had their own marketing names for these items.

In the world of factory-approved accessories, back then, the same accessory could be ordered for factory installation or could be installed by the dealer (from the appropriate accessory package from the manufacturer). BUT . . . they might not be exactly the same items. Type of accessory and functionality would be highly similar, but not the exact same parts used on the assembly line as in the factory accessory package. Plus, when the accessory was installed at the dealership, the dealership tech might not have run wiring and such in the same loom as the factory would have, where a separate-dedicated harness WITH the accessory's plug-ins would have been used. "Quality of installation" issues.

I don't recall ever seeing a '66 Impala with a factory cruise control, but I know they were available on Chevrolets and other GM cars from the factory that year. When I got a NOS accessory cruise control kit several years ago (as payment for helping an associate score a purchase of many NOS dealership parts), when I openned the box and looked at the installation instructions, I was shocked. The cruise control "head" was mounted on the core support, beside the radiator, using a very long rod going to the carburetor, "kinked" to clear the air cleaner in the process. It came with everything to do the installation, as expected, but the mounting location was a shocker. I was going to try to adapt it to my '66 Chrysler, but not like that--no way it would fit and clear the closed hood! The Chrysler's head unit mounted, like later models, on the lh fender apron.

When cruise controls became highly popular circa 1973 (55mph speed limits), there were many dealer-installed factory accessory cruise kits. By that time, the "production" unit was the same as the "dealer-installed" unit. There could still be some "quality of assembly" issues, though, or other evidence which would indicate that it was not factory installed, other than the build sheet. BUT all dealers were not bound to use their OEM's products, either. If you find a GM vehicle with a "memory cruise" (which came toward the early 1980s), you'll have to look further to document it as what it might be. One way was on the new turn signal stalk . . . which side "ON" and "Resume" were on, in some cases. NOT to forget that each GM carline division had different cruise controls and head units . . . some brands had indicator lights on the instrument panel, for example, whereas others didn't use them. Plus "ON" and "OFF" switches on the instrument panel, too. All carline specific. I don't recall seeing those carlines' accessory cruise units, so I can't say if the kits also had new instrument panel trim pieces for the lights and switches or if the factory accessory cruises had more self-contained ways of doing the same thing.

Cruise controls are one example. Air conditioning is another. The Chevy "Cool Pak" under-dash a/c system was a factory-approved accessory, but not factory production. If the vehcile might not have been factory-equipped with a radio, there was a factory kit to install one, but it was the dealer tech's option as to exactly where to drill the outside antenna hole, although there were paper templates for such. There was some lattitude in what could be done, but if it varied from the template, it would not look "factory". Of course, if you removed the antenna, you could see the rough-drilled sheet metal.

As you might suspect, this whole situation can become a big mess for a multi-marque vehicle club! Plus, it might get in the way of the ultimate enjoyment of the particular event, the club, the national organization, and the respective operatives which make it all happen. Some people want leniency for things not being exactly correct, some expect exact accuracy, some might be more oriented toward "reasonabl accuracy", as others want any modifications/upgrades they might have made to the vehicle overlooked for judging deductions--think "halogen headlights", "radial tires", and incorrect "POA eliminator valves". The first two items have their own respective "first year used" orientations and the third item NEVER was a factory-production item--period. With all due respect, pity goes to the person who purchased a car with those things done "two prior owners" ago, but perceives them to be correct for their particular vehicle.

Ah . . . the details!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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On the issue of "factory literature" . . . in order for the sales brochures to be completed AND available for "show date", backdating from show date (usually in Sept or Oct, back then), it's easy to see that all of the pictures for service manuals and sales literature were probably done in the prior July time frame. Therefore, the vehicles used would be some of the first ones "trial-built" for the particular model year. This can explain some of the moldings which don't always line up or possibly some items which were "last minute changes" approved for "final production."

If you read the John DeLorean book on General Motors, circa 1981, it mentions that carline engineering could have their final proposal ready to go into production, but in the final sign-off for the vehicle, "Accounting" might want a certain amount of money taken out of the car. With the vehicle production slated to start very soon, the only things which might be changed would include interior trim fabrics, chrome trim, wheel trim, tire size and brand, and other "de-contenting" to hit the specified production cost spec without further delaying the start of production. I have an Assembly Manual for the 1970 1/2 Camaro. In it, there are LOTS of things which are changed before production began--one notable change was from the originally-planned 4-speaker stereo speaker system to the 1-front, 1-rear speaker arrangement that was used until about 1979. Each of these changes is signed and dated for when they were approved--usually changes which resulted in higher-level things not happening and lower-level things substituted. A wealth of information in these books--especially for correct restoration to "factory spec"!!!

In my '66 Chrysler service manual, some of the pictures are actually of 1965 vehicles, but in these cases, there was no change between the '65 and '66 vehicles. An illustration with a drawn likeness of the '65 car to illustrate jacking points is just not that model year specific for vehicles of the same general platform. In some cases, the pictures are there for illustrative purposes, not equipment documentation per se. But, sometimes we tend to nit-pick these things when they are really reasonably the same either way.

Many manufacturers, in the 1960s especially, had "Spring Special" editions of vehicles which would start to appear in about March or so. Usually, they were special option packages with discounts, but could also include some new or special colors in the mix, too. Something "new" to get the buyers into the showrooms.

In the case of "wire wheels with Chrysler emblems", they were not correct for those years of (what I call) "bent bar" Chrysler Imperials. Only aluminum wheels of particular/unique designs with Imperial center caps. Doesn't matter what some dealer added to the car that was not factory-offered (as an option or a dealer-installed accessory). [in that general era, wire wheel covers were in vogue, with "real" wire wheels usually being aftermarket--except for the Cadillac factory equipment Boranni wire wheels.] Same with the many variations of "carriage tops" or vinyl roofs which many dealers added to vehicles. Whether these would be judging deductions or having the vehicle re-classified into a different class would be up to the particular judging administrators. The issue of Vogue Tyres could be open for discussion, though.

I realize that in this discussion, we're concerned with AACA-particular rules and orientations. Regarding the noted Charger, if you might really want to see how it might judge (with all due respect to our AACA hosts), I'd highly recommend that you take it to Mopar Nationals one year and enter it in their Concours Judging. If there's something "right" or "not right" with the vehicle, their Mopar-specific judges will most probably find it. Used to be a 1400 point judging sheet! EVERYTHING is checked, even the backside of the chrome bumpers.

I've observed that every car club group has their own specific orientations toward judging vehicles. Whether it might be AACA, BCA, OCA, WPC, GSCA, HCCA, or whomever, there are some things which are allowed, some which are tolerated, some which are approved, and some which will be deducted for. In some cases, the rules are close enough that one vehicle could easily show in differently-sanctioned events. In other cases, it would do well in one and not that well in another. The upside is that although there are many ways to look at and consider things, there should be at least one place where everyone can find a "car club home" and enjoy the hobby to the extent they desire and can afford. Finding other vehicle enthusiasts with whom they can "mesh", have a good time, and look forward to future good times with that group/organization. It just depends upon "which game" you want to play.

Everybody, please enjoy to the limit of your tolerance and desires! Make friends, network, and enjoy the hobby, the friendships, the "network" of tech and model information assistance, and an enhanced life experience.

Regards,

NTX5467

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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Thanks for the replies and information NTX5467.

AACA judging rules do not state that "factory authorized" accessories have to be installed at the factory, which, as you say, is quite different than the way other clubs judge. That is one of the reasons why single-marque clubs are of great, GREAT, value to the hobby, as no multi-marque club could ever be the last word on authenticity purely from a logistical standpoint.

For that reason, you'll probably find that most collectors are members of a club specifically catering to their brand, make or model of car, in addition to a multi-marque club such as AACA.

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I recently asked a dealer friend about how "factory authorized" accessories are installed at the dealership....

In most cases, the car has to be bought first. In other words, the car cannot be bought and "delivered" with the accessories already installed. The customer has to take the car to the service department.

So, with AACA accepting dealer-installed factory accessories, that probably means (correct me if I'm wrong) that the "documentation" merely has to show that a component was something built/made for that specific model of car. In other words, if my cousin, Vinnie, bought a 1986 Camaro, then took his car around the building to the service department and had them install rally wheels (which would be shown in the factory brochure), then this is okay according to AACA judging rules (yes? no? maybe? depends on the judging team?)

This does not (or should not) mean that if you have a factory brochure that shows a 1986 Impala with a particular component, that you won't be deducted points if you have it on your 1986 Camaro, even though the dealership's service department may have done it.

I am an AACA judge, but I'm very, very new at it. I would like to be corrected if I'm wrong with my above statements.

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..... In other words, if my cousin, Vinnie, bought a 1986 Camaro, then took his car around the building to the service department and had them install rally wheels (which would be shown in the factory brochure), then this is okay according to AACA judging rules (yes? no? maybe? depends on the judging team?)

You are correct, they would not be deducted for.

Even if he bought them through the parts department, took them to his friend who works at a garage, had his friend swap the tires from the old rims to the new rally wheels and mount them on the car, they still would be okay. They were a factory option for the year, make and model and appear as such in the factory documentation. (Which of course he should have at an AACA Meet when the Team Captain asks for it. :D ) We do not require that an owner show proof that the item/items was/were installed by the dealer.

This does not (or should not) mean that if you have a factory brochure that shows a 1986 Impala with a particular component, that you won't be deducted points if you have it on your 1986 Camaro, even though the dealership's service department may have done it.

Again, correct West. The item/items must be correct for the year, make and model they are on. And the deduction for incorrect items is the total amount that can be taken according to the judging sheet. Copies of which can be found in the on-line 2011 Official Judging Guidelines starting on page 54.

http://www.aaca.org/publications/manuals/judges/2011_Judges_Guidelines.pdf

As Wayne always says, folks that have not been to a judging school should take one in. It is free, you get a free copy of the Guidelines (they are $5 if purchased without the class) and folks can opt to fill out the card at the end of the class, get their first "Judging Chip" and think about exploring this side of the hobby.

Ownership of an antique vehicle is not required to be a member of the AACA or to get involved with judging. Just a desire to help support this hobby and help insure it's future for the generations coming behind us. :)

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Sometimes the devil is in the details. For example, here is the accessories brochure for 1956 Cadillac. Spot lights were an accessory BUT only on the driver side not the passenger side. It's very rare to see only one spot light on a car, they are almost always paired up.

1956%20access.jpg

No continental kit was available either. That didn't start till '57.

The AACA has it right. The burden of proof is on the owner. Theoretically all accessories should be questioned but that could be very time consuming.

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You are correct, they would not be deducted for.

Even if he bought them through the parts department, took them to his friend who works at a garage, had his friend swap the tires from the old rims to the new rally wheels and mount them on the car, they still would be okay. They were a factory option for the year, make and model and appear as such in the factory documentation. (Which of course he should have at an AACA Meet when the Team Captain asks for it. :D ) We do not require that an owner show proof that the item/items was/were installed by the dealer.

How about if my cousin Vinnie's brochure says, "only available on the Z/28" (or Rally Sport, or whatever? I dunno if it does or doesn't, I'm just asking a theoretical question that could easily come up.

... and in the case of the "left-hand" spotlight, the dealer's service department would install the spotlight on the right side if the customer asked for it. How would that be judged?

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How about if my cousin Vinnie's brochure says, "only available on the Z/28" (or Rally Sport, or whatever? I dunno if it does or doesn't, I'm just asking a theoretical question that could easily come up.

The documentation must match the year, make and model that the item/items are on.

If Cousin Vinnie put incorrect rally wheels on his car that they were not offered from the factory for, and the Team Captain asks him for documentation he isn't going to be able to show that the wheels are correct and he is going to lose 2 points each under Rims for as many as are incorrect. :eek: If no one on that judging team catches it then for that meet they could get away with it. :o But sooner or later it will be caught. :rolleyes:

..... and in the case of the "left-hand" spotlight, the dealer's service department would install the spotlight on the right side if the customer asked for it. How would that be judged?

It probably wouldn't warrant the full deduction as the light is a factory option, not an after market light, but it would have been installed incorrectly according to documentation.

If it is not caught the first time then most likely somewhere down the road it will be caught by another team.

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How the "factory authorized accessories" are handled at the dealership can be variable. If the new owner wants them added as a part of the deal, that can happen. If they might figure it would be less expensive to purchase the items and then pay somebody to install them, that can happen too. Typically, from what I've seen it's a cleaner deal for these things to be done prior to final delivery of the vehicle. Of course, depending upon what the particular accessory might be, if some thing somewhat oddball's desired, that vehicle had better have money paid for it one way or another.

In more recent times, when GM jumped back into the factory accessory business, if the desired accessory is installed and sold as a part of the vehicle sales deal, these things are then covered under the manufacturer's basic vehicle warranty for that particular vehicle. Otherwise, less warranty coverage for the accessory items.

In the case of spotlights, an aftermarket company might have made these items for the OEM manufacturer -- to the OEM's specs -- but also sold a facsimilie product in their normal product line. In the case of dual spotlights, the dealer would probably procure them from the aftermarket vendor rather than the manufacturer, typically. Better local/regional availability, typically, plus ultimate returnability if the customer changed their minds -- in those earlier times, if a dealer purchased ANY factory-authorized accessory via their OEM parts supply lines, it was theirs, not returnable for any reason, typically, but if it broke, then it could be warrantied (within guidelines). This is why some dealers were more "conservative" in stocking OEM-spec-supplied accessories unless they had a track record of selling these particular items.

With regard to Cousin Vinny purchasing new wheels from the dealership, that would mean he "had some connections" somewhere. Otherwise, he'd be scouring the tire shops looking for "take off" wheels and tires from a similar particular vehicle. From about $100.00 retail, GM's aluminum wheels have now increased to about $500.00+ each. Along about 1986, they would have probably been about $300.00 each. The tire shops would probably have sold him a complete set of tires/wheels/caps/lug nuts as "new car take-offs" for $350.00, I suspect, back then. Plus, in the case of the 1986 Camaro Z/28s, if it had a particular option code, the wheels were specific front and specific rear . . . different rim widths and most probably different tire sizes, too. In any event, there was NO swapping them front to rear at tire rotation time. PLUS the tires had directional treads on them, too! There were definitely some "ins and outs" in several areas on the middle '80s GM F-body cars, as to what would fit which vehicle they didn't come on.

In the case of dealer-installed options or equipment changes to new vehicles, ALL of those things would need to be noted on the vehicle's folder at the selling dealership. Unfortunately, after particular time limits, those folders are usually destroyed. This would leave the purchaser's original sales agreement, of which they should have received a copy of when they took delivery of the vehicle. That would be the only supporting documentation, typically.

When CB radios were popular in the later 1970s and earlier 1980s, GM and others had factory-optional built-in CB radio packages. These were pretty neat as they were a part of the factory radio kit. They could be swapped out for the normal AM/FM Stereo radios at the dealerships, too. BUT, there were also aftermarket radios which looked very similar to the factory units, just didn't have necessary "Delco" logo on the radio . . . plus they had an aftermarket-style power antenna too. Probably still some of those things sitting in personal garages somewhere today! Best to know what you were looking at, back then even.

For judging purposes, though, where the items were purchased/installed would not be important, just that they are now on the vehicle and their justification of being correctly there is the issue at hand to be determined. Correctness for the model and model year are important, if questioned, as this is where the sales/service literature can come into play as "supporting documentation".

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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..... In the case of dual spotlights, the dealer would probably procure them from the aftermarket vendor rather than the manufacturer, typically.

If they are aftermarket spotlights, or any aftermarket item, they are incorrect and would be deducted for accordingly. It does not matter if the dealership got them rather than the owner. Wrong is wrong. Dealers were/are known for putting things on vehicles that owners wanted and to them it didn't matter where it came from at the time.

Case in point, we bought a new Chevy Tracker several years ago. The local dealer took it to Ziebart and had dark window tint put on the windows. It was listed on the sheet on the window and was part of the sale price. But it was aftermarket window tint, not authorized by the factory so if it showed up on an AACA show field when it was 25 years old that window tint would be deducted for and it was on every window, including the windshield, which had an added sun shade strip of it across the top.

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How the "factory authorized accessories" are handled at the dealership can be variable. If the new owner wants them added as a part of the deal, that can happen. If they might figure it would be less expensive to purchase the items and then pay somebody to install them, that can happen too. Typically, from what I've seen it's a cleaner deal for these things to be done prior to final delivery of the vehicle. Of course, depending upon what the particular accessory might be, if some thing somewhat oddball's desired, that vehicle had better have money paid for it one way or another.

The Ford dealer (the owner and very good friend) I talked to said, "no can do." If you want something from the parts department, you have to handle the sale of the car first, then walk around the corner and order your parts.

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Perfect example of this would be our 70 el camino SS 396 that has dealer order invoice (old carbon copy type paper) that has hand written in on the invoice tonneau cover. Now, I can only speculate that the Chevy dealership ordered it and installed it as I can not find anywhere in the original sales line magazine about a tonneau cover but I do know that there were optional equipment that were not in the magazine as well in another magazine that Chevy put out. Items such as tissue boxes with the manufacturers logo, under dash 8 track player, dealer add on a/c, stuff like that. Now I know at every AACA show that we bring the elky too, we point out the paper work. We have yet to get our Junior Grand national first place but I have to suspect it might be something to do with this tonneau cover. We have original paperwork showing such but with a lack of a part number on the tonneau cover, the dealer invoice is the only piece of paperwork we have proving it left the dealership that way. Some judges at other shows refused to accept it because the cover itself does not have a part number on it. Well, the original cover that was on the elky when we got it did not have a part number stamped, sewn, or molded into the cover anywhere either. In order to preserve the original feature of the car, we had to have a new tonneau cover made up. Exact same in appearance as original, only maybe a little thinner material compared to the original.

Now, using my example, how would this be viewed? Or would it all come down to the opinion of the judges?

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Guest my3buicks

Sounds like the dealer added on an after market tonneau cover - there is enough 70 Chevrolet literature out there to substantiate it as a factory approved option/accessory if it really was.

i have some really rare options/accessories on my 67, some that most have not seen, but with a little effort, anyone could substantiate any one of them by looking through 67 Buick literature.

I also have an original invoice for my 67, hand written on it was undercoat & Glaze and a price for the item - I know that was a dealer "add on" as it is not an option/accessory and/or could not be substantiated by a part number to reference it back to.

It all comes back to what you can point your finder at as hard factory approved evidence.

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Anyone that has an item/items on their vehicle that there might be a question about, and they do not have factory documentation for it/them but believe it was factory (NOT just dealer supplied) authorized, should contact the AACA Library and Research Center to see if they can help.

Members of the AACA that are current on their dues receive 1.5 hours of free research. Copies can be had for a nominal cost.

The burden of proof is with the owner.

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Again, here lies the question of how it left the factory vs how it left the dealership. I cite the dual quad Ford cars as an example that were delivered from the factory with a single 4 bbl carb and intake on the motor and the "correct" dual quad carbs and intake supplied in the trunk and where the factory deemed it was cheaper to reimburse the dealership to install the dual quad carbs and intake and fine tune them at the dealership.

Now using the above example, are owners with these high performance cars supposed to reinstall the single carb and single 4 bbl intake back on the cars and carry around the factory supplied but not installed carbs and intake in the trunk? Same can be applied to hub caps, majority of the cars were shipped with the hub caps in the trunk to prevent them from getting stolen off the cars in transport. Once at the dealership, the hub caps were installed.

I know it is a catch 22 but what would be correct then?

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You should send a letter to the VP of Class Judging regarding this and get an official ruling on this oddball situation.

People here can offer their opinion on what should be done, but that is not the opinion that counts. Get an official answer from the person who's job it is to research this and give a ruling. That is your best bet for the right answer. :)

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resq302,

While Susan is technically correct, I would not waste the VP of Class Judging's time on this question. AACA Judging is designed to use common sense.

This is not really that difficult...

"Any feature, option, or accessory shown in the original factory catalog,

sales literature or company directives for the model year of the vehicle, will be accepted

for judging."

Certainly you would not receive a deduction for having such equipment installed as intended by the factory. This subject requires just a little bit of common sense, there are probably lots of similar examples of things that the factory left for the dealer to install.

A few examples that I can think of... on Chevrolet Police Cars, we used to receive them with the "Caprice Classic" emblems in the glove box, rather than installed. On Ford Police Cars, we often received them with the front door mouldings shipped loose. This was to allow badge door stickers to be placed on the car and then have the mouldings installed over the stickers. A little bit of common sense goes a long way in judging.

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West, your Ford dealer friend may well choose to do things as you mentioned, but as I said, it's a variable situation. Where I've been for the past 34+ years, if a customer purchases a vehicle and wants something done to it (including, but not limited to, spray-in bed liners, lift kits on pickups plus appropriate tire/wheels, alarm systems (before they were factory-installed), window tint, pin stripes, undercoat, radio upgrades in the 1980s and prior, CB radios (back then, too), pickup grille guards, trailer hitches and trailer brake controllers (GM used to supply factory-accessory Class I trailer hitch kits, but if you wanted anything heavier, they had to come from the aftermarket vendors), different pickup rear bumpers, 5th wheel hitches), it gets written up on the sales order and happens BEFORE delivery of the vehicle. This way, WE have control of what happens and who does it . . . which can greatly reduce further customer complaints about things THEY had done that they want US to fix under warranty. In some cases, we do refer customers to known, trusted aftermarket vendors/installers. Your Ford dealer friend might be surprised at how much money HE could be making (parts and labor) installing factory-supplied accessories . . . money he's sending down the street. I suspect he's decided to do things as he does due to some former issues in this area, which I understand and appreciate. As I mentioned, this whole situation is a variable situation. Just as some dealers absolutely will NOT sell a vehicle to an employee, yet other dealers might not take kindly to having an employee purchase a vehicle from a same-brand competitor--another highly variable situation based upon past experiences or orientations.

In the 1970s, there were some promotional deals which GM did for various vehicles. One was the tonneau covers for El Caminos, as I recall. These items were sent to the dealerships from Chevrolet and then the dealer sold them to the customer at the point of sale as part of the promotional deal. These were somewhat common on the '76 or so El Caminos, back then. Usually, there were some decals with the name of the package, too.

Another thing which was popular in the Dallas Zone for Oldsmobile in the middle 1970s. The Dallas Area Oldsmobile Dealer group (The Bold Men of Olds) had regular Cutlass S 2-door hardtops built with Cutlass Supreme front clips on them . . . from the factory. It was a part of a promotional package they'd put together. It made a neat looking car . . . Supreme coming and Cutlass S going. This happened prior to the 1978 model year, usually in the spring sales season. This made it interesting for the parts people who worked front end wrecks on these vehicles . . . but once you knew what it was, it was fine.

As for "trunk parts", that's how the first-gen Z/28 factory headers were shipped . . . in the trunk. These exhaust headers were unique from the aftermarket items, so they were obviously what they were. I suspect that these "trunk parts" were done before there were any aftermarket vendor shops which were set-up to handle these types of parts installations. Just as the '69 Dodge Daytonas (i.e., "Wing Cars") were sent "off-site" for the installation of the "wing car-specific" parts . . . which also generates the THREE layers of overspray on the underside of the car . . . which much be there for the restored cars to be completely correct.

To me, the worst kind of "accessories" are the ones which dealers add to make the cars "sell better" (meaning, generally, more profit). This would be the non-factory pin stripes, decal kits, radio kits with aftermarket radios and aftermarket antennas, padded vinyl roofs (although some were really factory units, the gain of the vinyl will usually give it away as non-factory), "Opera windows" (think middle 1970s), and other things to make their vehicles different from what other dealers had. In some cases, you'd have to know what you were looking at to know what was what. The original customer knows that "It came that way from the dealer", presuming they were factory-installed items.

Some of the factory promotional "kits" were typically never in a sales brochure (at least the ones printed at the first of the model year) unless some brochures came with the shipment of promotional kits. Or they were announced in Dealer Information letters. In many cases, GM didn't design these things themselves, but had them done by existing outside vendors who'd put the GM logos and such on them for them as a part of the deal. Hence, the similarity to existing aftermarket accessories, typically. In many cases, you'd have to have been there when these things happened to know about them . . . at least from what I've seen . . . none of these things typically NEVER showed up in any GM parts books back then.

In many cases, these promotional packages were regional rather than national and could be in conjunction with some consumer product. For example, there was a Chevy Truck promotional package where the customer would get a Winchester Rifle for purchasing a Chevy pickup with the promotional equipment package (seems like there was a "Winchester Edition" nameplate or decal?).

This whole issue can get somewhat sticky and involved, in some cases. The odds of some of these vehicles showing up at a show event is rather small. Seeing a Buick "Olympic Edition" or "Texas Sesquicentenial" Edition LeSabre vehicle would be much more probable. Similar to the many "Spirit of '76" Chevy models in 1976, too.

HIGHLY Variable Situations!

Regards,

NTX5467

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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