Guest BJM Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) 1963 BUICK RIVIERA PARTS CARI contacted the seller and was happy that he responded with some additional photos. The interior he said was white and fawn. The body he says is white. Those look like correct higher end Riviera hub caps but I am no expert. I understand this car is likely rusty. Most rust does not scare me away. I buy project cars so am not able to afford the $14,000 2+ condition cars out there. His additional photos show a "standard" interior with roll up windows. The seats look original and appear white or very light tan. No A/C - appears to be a low option car.He says original motor comes with car and is not in the car. My questions:1. Is white/white interior an actual available 63 color combination or is this likely a white and faded fawn interior?2. Didn't all 63 Rivieras come with a 425?3. I am considering offering $500 for the car. This is an older Craigs List ad and car has not sold. What do you think?I have owned a 64 Riviera. I know the shortcomings of a 63 with last year Dynaflow auto but kind of want a 1st year 63. Seems like a fair price for a full-on project. Some time ago I created a post asking what was the best 63-65 paint/interior combinations. I personally think an all black 63 looks great. The kind of car Frank Sinatra would order. But I also like an all white or white/light fawn combination. I don't see many all white 63-64's. I think the white looks great against the chrome. Also, this 63 is equipped the way I like them. With minimal troublesome power optons and no A/C. A/C is awful nice I agree but I basically buy a specific old car for it's physical beauty. Having said that, 4 of my footer listed cars are equipped with A/C. Comments and observations welcome. Edited March 13, 2011 by BJM (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest riomar000 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I know white on white would have been factory and white interior would have been an option. Unfortunately it looks to be a '64, the "R" hood emblem is a dead give away as '63's didn't have the stylized Riviera "R" yet. At least you won't have to deal with that dynaflow. Being that, from what the pics tell me, it is a '64 then it would come with a 425 cause that was the standard engine for '64. Good eye on the caps cause as you suspected they are the optional ones. It also looks like that one could have the electro-cruise on it as well. Here's a picture of my '63. It's a factory custom and laden with options that as of now need repair or restoration. I kinda wish it had less options now but it'll all be worth it in the end. Notice the absence of a hood ornament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonly Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 as stated, it appears to be a 64, prob with the 425. The biggy for me is 'no title' which makes it a parts car in my part of the country. this is about the same price that I paid for my parts car with a salvaged title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest riomar000 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yeah, the no title is sketchy. Try and get as much info as you can from the seller about that title cause if you buy a car without a title and it turns up stolen then the owner might want it back and that may be a can of worms you you really don't want to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thanks for the clarification. Shows you I am no 63/64 expert. No title does not worry me. It's nice, but no issue. I can get a Bonded title in Iowa. I highly doubt an individual will come forward to challenge me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The only way to know for sure if it is a '63 or a '64 is to have the seller give you the VIN. VIN starting with 7J is a '63; starting with a 7K is a '64.Someone might have put a hood on a '63 from a '64 parts car. Ask the seller if is says B U I C K across the trunk in block letters ('63 model) or if it says Riviera in script ('64 model). He does not include a picture of the trunk in the ad.The stock engine on a '63 was the 401. Starting in January of 1963 you could order the 425 as an option for the '63 model year.Since he has the engine out of the car (if I understood that correctly) you can ask him to read you the stamped number in the block, on the machined surface just forward of the "valley cover" (not the valve cover) on the passenger side. It is 2 letters followed by 3 numbers. First letter J is a '63 engine, first letter K is a '64 engine. Second letter is code for 401 (T), 425 (W), or 425 with dual 4-bbl carbs (X).So you get codes like JT123 or KW456. The numbers are internal Buick numbers that help them track subtle changes in manufacturing through the model year. I don't know how to decode that part of the number.The same machined surface on the block on the driver side should have the VIN stamped in it that matches the stainless steel VIN plate on the car body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) I can tell you for certain that this is a '63. The headlight switch and the wiper switch are on the console. The a/c and heater controls are NOT on the console.As stated previously, white interior would not have been an "option" it would have been a choice.Definitely purchase this one as a parts car. Did you check the date on the pictures? If they're accurate, those pictures were taken five years ago. If that's the case, what's the current condition of the car?EdJim,Does any car in your data base have the N3 option? Edited March 13, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I can tell you for certain that this is a '63. The headlight switch and the wiper switch are on the console. The a/c and heater controls are NOT on the console.As stated previously, white interior would not have been an "option" it would have been a choice.Definitely purchase this one as a parts car. Did you check the date on the pictures? If they're accurate, those pictures were taken five years ago. If that's the case, what's the current condition of the car?EdJim,Does any car in your data base have the N3 option?EdBy "purchase this as a parts car" are you thinking it is worth it only as a rare parts car or "it can't be restored as you see it"I will ask for more VIN details but my experience is that a seller trying to move a $500-$600 car has limits to how much email back and forth they want to expend on it. I felt fortunate to receive additional photos! The photos I received were specific to my requests so I would say the car is in "similar" shape. Photos lie vis a vis contrast. I can tell you the seats are either white or very light tan. They are not clothe so they are likely leather.3 of the 4 seats are intact and nice. The door panels look white and I believe it's what you Riviera experts refer to as a Standard interior because it's crank windows and small arm rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Jake,I'd approach the seller as a purchaser of a car that I'd be parting out and see what kind of price you can agree on, but keeping in mind that it would be possible to restore it. What you have to consider is "in reality are there any parts on this car that could be sold to recover the purchase price plus make me some money for my time and a little profit." It could be that it's complete enough for a restoration but you might be needing a whole bunch of stuff for it. If it's got the standard interior in it, I'm betting that it's not highly optioned either. You need to keep that in mind when it comes time to part it out. Why does a '63 have a '64 hood on it? Does it also have '64 turn signal housings? If so, was it in a wreck and the only front end they could find was from a '64? Why was the project abandoned by the seller? Perhaps he found out 1) there are no parts on it that anyone wants. or 2) there are no parts out there to replace what he needed.If I were you, I wouldn't do anything until I could have a knowledgeable third party take a look at it and give you an honest opinion on what's there. I just don't trust pictures. (I bought an Arizona car and had a friend look it over. Still when I got it home and I pulled the carpets back, there were rust pin holes in the floor boards and I broke a couple of bolts removing the seats. Just because it's from a dry climate doesn't mean it's rust free. From what I could tell on mine, it looks like water soaked the carpet. Windows down during the one thunder storm they had in Prescott, AZ in 1998 then they rolled the windows up after it got wet inside? Or did someone drive it from MI to AZ two years before I bought it. ) Do you have pictures of the floor boards under the carpets? What about the typical rust problems in the trunk and under the rear window? Those are things that won't show up in pictures unless that's what the seller wants you to see. Does the engine turn over by hand? Remember, it's a '63 - Finding someone who can overhaul a Dynaflow is like discovering a new species of dinosaur.Caveat Emptor!Ed Edited March 13, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Jim,Does any car in your data base have the N3 option?No, not yet.Only 755 cars left the factory with the N3 A/C-ready option but without A/C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Here is his response to an email. Seller is being great in communications for a $500 parts car. The photos are current....calendar in camera a few years off....the vin is 7j1105084....style 63-4747..will have to get engine code when weather breaks...This appears to be a 63 Riviera with a standard interior in white vinyl. The interior photos he sent show no usual wear or crease lines typical of leather. This might have been answered up further but.... white leather? That seems like a bad option due to white fading or wearing prematurely but I guess I have seen white leather in Electra convertibles. Here are his comments from 1st email:THE CAR IS ALL WHITE...PARTS OF INTERIOR ARE KIND OF AN OFF WHITE OR TAN..(THE CARPETING ON THE FLOOR AND DOOR PANELS..CAR WAS VERY NICE WHEN PARKED BUT HAS DETERIORATED ) THE ENGINE IS NOT THE ORIGINAL, ACCORDING TO THE GUY I GOT IT FROM, BUT I HAVE THE ORIGINAL SHORTBLOCK WITH A BURNED PISTON...BELIEVE IT WAS A 401 OR 4SOMETHING NAILHEAD MOTOR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hi Bryan,I paid $600.00 for a parts car with a worse body than that one has! From the pictures, it looks like a guy could do OK on restoring it or using it for parts. I did a bonded title on a '41 Plymouth in Minnesota (the state where nothing is legal) back in the 80's, not a huge deal, Iowa might be even easier!I agree with Ed, definately a 63 with 64 parts up front, not a deal killer by any means. You'll have to do some adapting to get the 64 425 to mate to the 63 dynaflow or you could source a 64 Super Turbine trans, cross member, transmission mount, linkage, shifter and driveshaft and modernize the driveline somewhat, too. I'd say even for the $650 asking price, you couldn't get hurt on the car unless the trip to get it home would be a long one, most tow vehicles drop a significant amount of fuel economy when hauling a Riviera home! (Don't ask me how I know this!)Keep us posted and long live the '63 Riv!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 TimThanks. I have the inside track on it. Having owned a 64 Riviera I like them and they are great road cars. I drove mine from Spokane Wash across to Columbia, Missouri. It had a tired 425. It was red and I don't personally care for red on a 1st gen Riv. I think, except for white, the 63-64 Riv is best in black, maybe silver or grey metallic, but that's just one guy's opinion. They all look good at a BCA / ROA meet. I have been looking for a white on white or white on light tan project 63 Riviera for about 5 years so that should tell you how scarce they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim63riv Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Bryan,My brother has a white 63 with blue interior and a friend of mine in Minneapolis has a white 64 that is very nice! Both of the cars are loaded, too. I like Black but it is a PITA to keep it clean and looking good! Go get that one, as the weather improves, the buyers will start coming out, too!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From what I see, $500 seems like a decent deal. You'll have your work cut out for you if you do decide to restore it. Just keep in mind, if you do restore it, it will cost you more than 14k to bring that car back to life. But, I am a glutton for punishment too, so who am I to speak. LOL.Good luck with it.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dales90 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Jake,The 63 I can confirm could come white with white leather, as my army buddy in 1969 El Paso had one. It was totally loaded, incl power vents, and was a real cream puff. Years later, catching up with him, he told me it got totaled by a train, leaving him with one leg in pinned conditon, no other details. Wondered if it just didn't quite get across the tracks, and how much the beauty protected him.Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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