Need a new trunk, methinks

[bepnewt]

When I bought my '64, it was described as "Rust free, except some surface rust in the trunk that isn't a structural concern." Until today, it seemed to match that description really well. I could see a little bit of surface rust in the trunk, but besides that, I really couldn't find any. Well, except for one small spot.

At the body shop today, we took one of those body-filler finder devices that have a magnet and you pull on it until it releases from the car and you get an estimate of how thick the paint / clear / filler is below it. The body guy was pretty impressed at the results. We checked many spots on the car, focusing on the rust-trouble areas, and it came up clean.

Anyway, to the point...

I pulled up the old, possibly original, mat stuff in the trunk and it was U.G.L.Y. under there. I hate to even do it because it's so embarrassing, but I'll attach a pic. When I pulled the matting or whatever it is that lines the bottom of the trunk up, it was stuck pretty good to the rust so I doubt the seller had even pulled it up. So, while it was misrepresented, I don't think it was intentional.

I emailed the guy I bought it from and asked if one of his parts cars has a rust free trunk that can be cut out. I hope that "pans" out, but we'll see.

In case it doesn't, I'm going to need a new trunk pretty fast. Before I start hitting all the used parts places in the Riview, I'm asking here if anyone here just happens to have a replacement trunk they don't need that would work for me. If you do, please let me know.

Thanks, as always,

-BEPNewt

[bepnewt]

As a followup, where else do I need to be looking for rust? I've read about the possibility of the rear window having a leak around it. How is the best way to check for this? I've looked all around the rear window and it looks pretty good, but that's from the outside.

I'd like to not be too surprised when the paint guy pops the rear glass out. If that area is all rusty, then I'm going to have to put the paint on hold because of how much more it's going to cost to get it done.

-BEPNewt

[J Chase]

I am in the middle of body work on my 64. My trunk did not look as rusted as yours but up toward the wheel well there were rusted thru holes. I will quote what my body shop said. (NOTE: The Mid trunk body mount on the left side is completely rusted and unusable. This is a stuctural point that could lead to excessive flex in the body causing long term Fatigue).:eek: The right side had to be done also. Hope that is not your case, but you may want to look under that rust. It is also amazing when all the old paint is removed what is found under it!!! It sure is fun doing it.

Just some thought Jim

[JZRIV]

Actually, your findings are fairly common so don't feel bad. All those unexpected surprises is the fun of part of restoring a car. :confused:

Always best to check the trunk and passenger compartment floors by peeling back the lining interior material and if thats not practical, trying to poke from the underside in various locations with a pointed object like a screwdriver. Sometimes you just can't tell by a visual inspection no matter how experienced the eye.

Is your floor actually rusted through/mushy or does it have a solid feel when you tap on it with a hammer? If its not rusted through you may be better off having it blasted, epoxy prime, then use a high build primer to help smooth out the pits.

Check the passenger compartment floor pans the same way.

You shouldn't have too much problem finding a rust free trunk pan if needed.

Good Luck

[Guest REX STALLION]

I am in the process of replacing the whole trunk section in my `64. The rear window was a source of leaking on `60`s cars from GM ,the clips that held the window in would rust away very quickly allowing water to leak into the trunk. The water would seep under the mat and sit there merrily rusting away. Also the rear lower quarters were affected as there is quite a large opening on both sides that allow water and other debris to accumulate and start the rusting process.

If you take off the fenders, there is an area by the firewall, I don`t know what to call it but it has to do with the heater/vents.Down near the bottom, water, pine needles,etc collect over the years and rust this out as well. This could be why the lower corner of the fender rusts out and perhaps why water gets into the floorpans.

You can buy trunk repair panels but if the bracing and mounts are shot as mine were, a new trunk section is in order. I paid $125.00 for a rust free one with all the bracing and mounts in good shape. I can go on about the installation of the new section but if you are getting a bodyshop to do the work, I wont bore you with the details. ....Cheers, Scott

[bepnewt]

@Jim: When you say "Mid-trunk body mount" do you mean the nut or whatever is at that spot in the picture where the dark sorta-circle is?

@Jason: I don't believe it's rusted through. I pushed down on it with a lot of weight and it seemed to give just a little, but I couldn't tell if that was the metal that's left or if it was the layer of rust I was feeling slightly give. What would be a good tool ( that a normal person would have or be able to acquire ) I could use to remove a good bit of the rust so I can test the quality of the metal underneath? One of these drill attachments?

@Scott: Once I figure out where the bracing and mounts are and if they are still structurally sound, I'll look at a trunk repair panel. Is that a car-specific thing or something where the body shop just welds a piece of sheet metal over top of the rust area after blasting it and sealing it?

Thanks, folks.

-BEPNewt

[Glenn McMahon]

As part of your restoration be sure to replace the trunk weatherstripping. It looks as though water has been leaking into your trunk for some time and forming into a nice rust cocktail under your matting. Lots of parts cars in the Riview so hopefully you can get a good replacement panel for the trunk floor.

Regards,

Glenn

Stoufville ONT

ROA 12929

[J Chase]

I believe that it is what the body connects to the frame with a rubber bushing , right behind the wheel well, you can see it from underneath. my gas tank is out that might make easier. both had to redone.

Jim

[alex bonino]

I've been down this road as well, as have several other members who already posted. If you like, send a PM and I can tell you more. Also, if memory serves I posted some pics of my trunk cut out before repair so search my previous posts and you may find it.

As far as other places to look, you will also want to closely inspect the floor pans where bracing is located underneath for support. The brace channels trap water/moisture and I had problems there as well. And the rocker panels. Check behind the lower rear portion of each front fender (fender needs to come off). And yes, remove the window trim front & back as well, and scrape the gooky sealant out to see if the glass channel is ok.

[Guest REX STALLION]

@Scott: Once I figure out where the bracing and mounts are and if they are still structurally sound, I'll look at a trunk repair panel. Is that a car-specific thing or something where the body shop just welds a piece of sheet metal over top of the rust area after blasting it and sealing it?

Thanks, folks.

-BEPNewt

The panels I speak of are Riviera specific . If your mounts and braces are shot you will be looking at replacing everything from a donor car (I had to go this route)Not a real big deal, just time consuming.I am real happy to be rid of the rusty trunk! I will not be putting back the stock trunk covering, to me, it is just a place to hold moisture. I will be using roll on truck bed liner or speckle paint (Roxatone)

[RivNut]

A lot of trunk rust comes from water that builds up and creates rust in the rear window channel. Once that happens and the channel get rust holes in it, water gets into the trunk and works its way under the mat.

The body mounts in the trunk are cup-shaped and will fill up with dirt and hold moisture in them. Once they start to go, the floor around them is soon to follow. Therefore, once you get the trunk fixed make sure that you check out the channel below the rear window or you'll be doing the trunk floor again.

When I can get to my car, I'll post a couple of pictures of these mounts I had cut from a parts car a couple of years ago.

Ed

[1965rivgs]

Hi Brian,

If you saved them see my previous emails to you regarding structural rust in the trunk.

Tom Mooney

[Guest daidock]

I've just stripped the trunk and interior from my '63. Trunk floor looked horrendous at first glance but turned out to be surface rust mixed up with the rotting liner material. Looked a heck of a lot worse than it was. Cleaned it all up and it's, thankfully, all solid. My rear window is clearly leaking. the outside corners of the steel work under the parcel area were again covered in surface rust. i think this and the rock hard trunk seal had let in the moisture. I've replaced all the cars weatherstrips now (vent window was great fun) and need to sort the rear screen out. My big worry is if the screen breaks. How I'd get one over here. If you come up with a way to waterproof the rear screen without removing it, let me know! My only problem area is the drivers footwell. Like a nice piece if lace!

[petelempert]

I had some of the same problems with my 63...like everyone else said...it's the rear window. My trunk was bad, but could be saved. I'd stay away from that big stripping tool you showed in your picture...that's like using a diabolical weed whacker. I used a brass wired wheel attached to a conventional drill to knock off the rust. Then I hit it with Rust Mort (Eastwood product) which kills all the remaining rust. Then a heavy coat of POR 15. Finally, I sealed it with epoxy primer. It looks great and is strong. Of course, non of that is worth doing if you haven't fixed the source of the leak first. I think the only thing we can be mad at Bill Mitchell for is the curse of the rear window that haunts all first gen Riv owners. Good luck. PRL

[JZRIV]

[quote name=bepnewt;857642

@Jason: I don't believe it's rusted through. I pushed down on it with a lot of weight and it seemed to give just a little' date=' but I couldn't tell if that was the metal that's left or if it was the layer of rust I was feeling slightly give. What would be a good tool ( that a normal person would have or be able to acquire ) I could use to remove a good bit of the rust so I can test the quality of the metal underneath? One of these drill attachments?

Thanks, folks.

-BEPNewt

Brian,

This is what I would use. An angle grinder with a cone type wire brush. you'll need goggles, dust mask and gloves. If you find it to be solid enough, then you can have it blasted. If you can't poke through with a screwdriver chances are you'll want to restore what you have. If blasting isn't an option, clean it up as good as you can with a wire wheel and there are rust neutralizers and other coatings specifically for going over rust. Eastwood has a variety of products to get an idea whats available.

Edited March 4, 2011 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[bepnewt]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and information; it's been quite helpful. I do have that email, Tom, and reread it - thanks.

Tomorrow is the big day. I borrowed an angle grinder with some wire brushes and have the requisite safety equipment. As long as the weather permits, I'll find out what's really going on with this trunk and see if it's salvageable.

-BEPNewt

[bepnewt]

I'll find out what's really going on with this trunk and see if it's salvageable.

I didn't have a lot of time today, but I did get a good amount of the rust brushed out so I could get a better look at what I'm dealing with.

I looked at the mounts from the underside and they look good to my untrained eye.

The rust definitely went through in spots. Is what's seen in these pics good enough to make a determination on whether I need a new trunk or not? Even real close to where those holes are, I couldn't push a small screwdriver through. The metal isn't very mushy at all.

I'm having trouble picturing where the mounts near the wheel well are from the topside. I threw a grid on one of the trunk pics. What general area will the mount be in?

I'm completely open to getting a replacement trunk if it makes the most sense at this point. My goal isn't to have a show car, but I also don't want the back-end of the car rotting on me.

-BEPNewt

[JZRIV]

Brian,

Nice work. From what is visible in the pics I personally wouldn't replace the trunk floor based on your goal. It should be plenty solid enough and now that you have stopped the rusting process, its not going to get any worse.

I'd treat the metal with a rust neutralizer/dissolver and fill the holes with a plastic or metal filler. Then apply epoxy primer, (Or you can epoxy prime first then fill) then a high build primer, then paint. There are different ways you can go about patching the holes but you definitely want it shot with an epoxy primer.

Edited March 7, 2011 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I've got a few minor spots in the passenger side floor of my '64 (so much for Arizona cars, eh?) My plan is to treat the area with Eastwood's rust converter, do a bit of "bondo" work on it then treat both sides with a rust encapsulator. That should seal it from any further deterioration. I'm also considering applying a coat of the liquid bed liner to each side of the floor - for further sealing purposes as well as some insulation properties. The bedliner stuff dries really hard and stands up to almost anything you can throw at it. Plus it's easy to clean.

Ed

[Guest Rob J]

Based on what I see, I don't think you need a new pan. My advice would be to weld up the little holes, then grind the welds down. After that, follow Jason's advice.

[1965rivgs]

Better find a good welder! Even a well seasoned pro will have trouble welding on metal that thin in that condition. Be careful!

Tom Mooney

[bepnewt]

Better find a good welder! Even a well seasoned pro will have trouble welding on metal that thin in that condition. Be careful!

Tom Mooney

Interesting timing - I was chatting on IM with my friend who has the welder when you posted this and he said he didn't think he would be able to do it.

Unless I change my mind, my plan is as follows:

1) Double and Triple-check to make sure there are no structural issues around the mounts

2) Scuff up the deck where the tire goes

3) See below **

4) Use POR-15 to cover the "upper deck" and trunk, after pretreating if needed. I've read a ton of information on this stuff and am aware of how harmful it can be if inhaled and also how hard it is to get off the skin. I considered using other rust arrestors and the roll-on bedliner, but think the POR-15 the way to go for this job.

** I'll leave the smaller "pin" holes alone but I'd like to do something with the bigger holes before putting on the POR-15. If I hadn't just filled the danged gas tank, I'd drop it and put something like duct tape over the holes from the bottom and the POR-15 will form a nice topcoat filling the holes. Since I can't drop the tank right now, I'm scratching my head on how I'm going to plug or just get some backing on the holes before the POR-15 gets brushed on.

I've mentally engineered a couple ways to do it but they seem overkill and there's got to be an easier, smarter way. My friend suggested bondo on the bigger holes, but that would still need something behind it I think. I'm open to suggestions!

-BEPNewt

[1965rivgs]

Enjoy the car until the tank is nearly empty...it wont take long! Keep in mind it will probably run dry at the 1/16 to 1/8th mark.

This kind of thing is not really my cup of tea but I would think there is some sort of epoxy/putty that is workable and grindable/sandable like bondo but water proof and more durable. Check out Eastwood products or another resto product/tool provider. Doesn`t Clark`s Corvairs sell something like I described?

Tom Mooney

[bepnewt]

Enjoy the car until the tank is nearly empty...it wont take long! Keep in mind it will probably run dry at the 1/16 to 1/8th mark.

Truth x 2!

It's on it's second tank of gas since I got it. The first one lasted barely over 1 day. I drove it ALL over going to body shops and getting quotes, etc. That day plus 1 trip to work and back drained it...

... and it ran out while showing right at 1/8. I was 1/8 mile from the gas station when it started sputtering. I'd read some other threads where people mentioned theirs runs out "early" so I crossed my fingers and made it, hoping that it really _was_ out of gas and there wasn't something else wrong.

This kind of thing is not really my cup of tea but I would think there is some sort of epoxy/putty that is workable and grindable/sandable like bondo but water proof and more durable. Check out Eastwood products or another resto product/tool provider. Doesn`t Clark`s Corvairs sell something like I described?

I'll check into it. I probably will run it out of gas and drop the tank, which will make it a bunch easier, let me see more of what's going on down there, and as a bonus, more of a learning experience. Can't beat that.

-BEPNewt

[steelman]

Truth x 2!

I'll check into it. I probably will run it out of gas and drop the tank, which will make it a bunch easier, let me see more of what's going on down there, and as a bonus, more of a learning experience. Can't beat that.

-BEPNewt

A little more work, but while you have the tank out, it would be a good idea to clean it good and maybe run some sealer through it. Better now with it out than a week after you get it all back together again.

[RivNut]

I had a vinyl top removed from a car some time ago and where water got under the vinyl top, it really created rusty place where the rear quarter was welded to the top. After having a new structural piece welded in, the guy at the body shop went over it with a coating of Everglass Tiger Hair. It's really tough stuff. It's water proof resin mixed with long strands of fiber.

Could be just the thing for your trunk.

[Glassesguy]

As I recall POR 15 had a fiberglass matting available for use with their product to accomplish just what you want to do. Wirebrush off all the loose rust, paint the pan with the POR 15, lay in the mat and cover with more POR 15. I've seen floorboards rescued this way. POR 15 is designed for use on rusty metal - not clean metal. I patched in a water drain channel that was leaking water into my trunk on my 65 convertible this way. This stuff is messy, but it seems to work. By the way this mat is not the same stuff you buy at the local chain store.

Maybe this will get you more solidly on the road with the Riviera. New trunk pan can come later.

[Guest REX STALLION]

Seems to be a lot of people in the "Goo and Go" camp! I had the opportunity to replace mine with an all steel replacement because it is off the road.Reinforce where you need to,stop the leaks, drive the wheels off it until you have the time to do a proper repair.

[page2171]

This sure is a timely thread for me. While I don't have a Riviera, the trunk of my Electra looks a lot like the pics the OP posted. I have been debating what to do with it, but now I think I have my answer...patch it the best I can and keep it on the road. Thanks guys!