H.P.O.F.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Hi All,

I have a '37 Dodge Brothers 2 dr touring sedan Reading up on the subject it states " A Vehicle may be intirely originial OR it may have certain "orginial" features such as paint,chassis,upholstery,engine compartment,etc. My question here is the car was repainted back in the early 80's the orginial color Black.I did a major overhaul and painted the engine silver and detail it as it was delivered to the dealier.The orginial Upholstery is showing the ware bad ( brakeing away from the seams,the padding in the pleats are flaten,the material at the hog rings are pulling apart,at the door panels the material has swell to the point the window crank has worn a grove in the material.being the ruels says features if we do the interior to the same specks of whats in it now could we be loseing a great percentage by doing this?

Vern

Edited February 24, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

The vehicle needs to be around 65% original to be certified HPOF. A rough estimate would be 25% for each { under hood, underside, interior, exterior } If the car has been re-painted thats -25%; If you do the interior, -25% = -50%. 15% short. This is just rough estimation on my part and just one way to look at it.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Billybird,

Thank you

.But why in the judgeing guidelines page 47 part D exhibition classes pargraph 1 states:

"A vechicle maybe entirely orginial OR it may have certain "original" features such as paint,chassie,upholstrey,engine compartments,ect.By useing the word Features I would think that it would be ok to copy the orginial features. as long as one has prove that it was that way before one started to fix the problem.I may just try to Patch up the seats to show it in this class.But still this will be a sore eye to look at.

Vern.

[Shop Rat]

I think you may be missing the purpose of the H.P.O.F. class.

Historical Preservation of Original Features. It is to preserve for the future what the vehicle looked like when it came from the factory in it's orginial state regardless of wear and tear. So that folks that are restoring a vehicle like it can see the color, weave and designs of the cloth, the colors of the exterior and interior, etc. How the original engine parts looked. No matter how close replacement pieces are, unless they are NOS from the factory they may not be totally correct.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Hi Susan,

I agree with what you are saying.BUT when th enggine was smoking so bad members of our local aaca club would florrow me by staying a 1/4 mile back it was time to fix the problem.The engine had many layers of grease,dirt, you name it,it was on there..We hot tank the block so had to do some painting or leave the bare casting to rust.

The interior : would a patch job useing the correct material(mohair) be accept for H.O.P.F. class. I understand that a part of the car can be spot painted and not lose any deduction is this right?

vern.

[MCHinson]

Backyardmechanic,

HPOF is designed for vehicles that have had little or no restoration, that have only been maintained over the years. HPOF vehicles are sometimes referred to as vehicles that serve as a "blueprint" for restorers who are restoring similar vehicle.

You could enter it in a Meet in HPOF and see if it passes the certification or not. If I understand it correctly, Certification requires 65% originality. It is sort of difficult for me to guess if you would meet or not meet that standard without seeing the vehicle in person.

One other option to consider would be Driver Participation Class (DPC). DPC sounds like it might be perfect for your vehicle if it does not receive HPOF certification.

[Shop Rat]

Hi Susan,

I agree with what you are saying.BUT when th enggine was smoking so bad members of our local aaca club would florrow me by staying a 1/4 mile back it was time to fix the problem.The engine had many layers of grease,dirt, you name it,it was on there..We hot tank the block so had to do some painting or leave the bare casting to rust.

The interior : would a patch job useing the correct material(mohair) be accept for H.O.P.F. class. I understand that a part of the car can be spot painted and not lose any deduction is this right?

vern.

Hi Vern. Sorry this took so long, I was babysitting tonight and didn't get back home until 11.

MCHinson hopefully answered your question. I know him personally and he gives very good advice. You may want to consider the DPC class for your car if you take it to an AACA meet and it doesn't get certified in the HPOF class.

People wanting to restore a vehicle that is not good enough for HPOF or DPC may need an orginial vehicle to look at. Looking at a restored vehicle can sometimes be the wrong thing to do if it was not done correctly. They can still get awards but that doesn't mean it is all correct to the person just walking up to get ideas to work on their vehicle.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Matt&Susan,

Thank you for the replys.

Let me tell you about this car.It was purchase by the local dodge chylster dealer in the early 80's from the supposly orginial owners estate the dealer put the car thu the paint shop painted it the orginial color black The dealer drove it off an on to shows then sold it to a Doctor collector in town. in the mid 80's.I purchase it from the Doctor 6 years ago.The car was only driven 438 miles under the doctors owenship.I have spoken to the dealer he states that the interior was almost mint condition .

but due to bad upkeep the interior is in sad shape.The car had only 14,500 on the meter when we purchase it. It has 24,000 miles now as you can see we enjoy and drive it in the summer time.

I OWN A Automotive Machine Shop after opening the engine up we found the top rings broken from not being used then being driven by us.So this is when I decided to go thu the engine to make it a driveable car.

The reward isn't a big deal for us but I thought it may be fun to go for it some time.

If any one of you were on the tour that came to Titusville,Pa to visit Drake Well the said car was park in the parking lot as Our AACA reagion park the tour cars.

vern

.

[sambarn]

BYM, The comments placing your car in a non HPOF class are not derogatory, just fact. I have more than 20 cars , no garbage or parts cars and thirty bikes. Of all those cars, due to the neccessary maintenance, I have one good HPOF car and two good HPOF bikes. Never restored, original paint, wiring, upholstery, The pencil marks inside metal panels that future restorers can use to see how it was assembled - exactly what it looked like leaving the factory. Any alteration, rebuild or repaint will forever remove that signature from the factory. This doesn't make it less of a car and I am very proud of my Drivers Participation cars, but engine repaint and exterior and I'm willing to bet that it is not an HPOF vehicle. That is great news,

enjoy it, restore it or just drive the stew out of it, don't get caught up in the trap of "what do they mean my cars not good enough" Come see the HPOF class at a national meet and you will understand, you are seeing history the way it rolled of the factory floor and it is a rare nand special car that can survive this long and still retain those qualities. Happy Motoring.

[Shop Rat]

BYM, The comments placing your car in a non HPOF class are not derogatory, .....

sambarn is correct in saying this.

We would love for him to bring his car to a national meet. We all just want to help him get it into the correct class for the level of restoration that has already been done. That way he will have a positive experience within the system.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Thank you all for replys and interest in this subject.I do/have been at Hershery fall meet haveing a space on the orange field (OBL 3 4 5 )and have atten the show many times.I can remember the old "blue fields"and to enter the car show while the judgeing was going on we had to show our membership card to enter the field.

Vern.

[RayBeniquez]

Hi, My 1949 Ford F1 just won the AACA HPOF award, does the AACA gives a Badge like the DPC Class, or one like the National First Prize Badge, I recived the Certification, and a Rectangular brass plate, but no badge to put on front of the car. Any help would be good.

Can you give me more information?

Thanks,

Ray

[Shop Rat]

Hi, My 1949 Ford F1 just won the AACA HPOF award, does the AACA gives a Badge like the DPC Class, or one like the National First Prize Badge, I recived the Certification, and a Rectangular brass plate, but no badge to put on front of the car. Any help would be good.

Can you give me more information?

Thanks,

Ray

Ray,

According to the Judging Guidelines "They will be recognized at the awards ceremony and will receive an exhibition award (and a mounting board at first certification). A certification badge will be presented to each vehicle upon acceptance into the HPOF category. The badge should be mounted at some visable location on the front of the vehicle."

You might want to contact the AACA headquarters to inquire as to when you will receive the badge.

[RayBeniquez]

According to the Judging Guidelines "They will be recognized at the awards ceremony and will receive an exhibition award (and a mounting board at first certification). A certification badge will be presented to each vehicle upon acceptance into the HPOF category. The badge should be mounted at some visible location on the front of the vehicle."

You might want to contact the AACA headquarters to inquire as to when you will receive the badge.

Yes, that is what I read, in the Guidelines, but I did not received the Badge for the car, with the certification. I also contacted AACA HQ, but posted it here to see if any members knew about it.

Thanks

[msmazcol]

I remember scratching my head when my Olds won an HPOF. Does it seem like maybe in an envelope taped to the backside of the large mounting board sound possible? I remember coming home and installing it on the car.

I do know they are not number stamped like a first Junior award.

[Guest billybird]

The HPOF badge is the same size as the First Junior badge. The face colors are different { yellow outer ring } and denotes Histoical Preservation of Original Features. First Junior badges have a red outer ring; Grand National Firsts have a blue outer ring and the Certified Race Vehicles I believe have a green outer ring. All four are the same size and construction { brass oval } DPC is round.

[RayBeniquez]

yes, they are not numbered, they look like this:

Instead I got a brass plate with AACA HPOF with name and car description, rectangular with 4 hole to mount on a wall plaque. But not this badge for the car. Maybe it will come in another envelope don't know

[RayBeniquez]

The HPOF badge is the same size as the First Junior badge. The face colors are different { yellow outer ring } and denotes Histoical Preservation of Original Features. First Junior badges have a red outer ring; Grand National Firsts have a blue outer ring and the Certified Race Vehicles I believe have a green outer ring. All four are the same size and construction { brass oval } DPC is round.

Yes this is true, that's why I'm asking.....what happened?

[msmazcol]

If my mind is not shot I believe it all came in the same package. Don't remember it coming later in the mail. In other words the car badge was in the same package with the wall board.

HQ should be able to answer this one.

Edited March 18, 2011 by msmazcol (see edit history)

[RayBeniquez]

I suppose it should, I had a 41 Woodie it got DPC, and all came in, in one envelope.

[Greg J]

Tagging in on an old post here..Long time lurker, first time poster. I have a question regarding HPOF. Recently bought a superb condition 73 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Car has been garaged it's entire life, original paint,interior, chrome- all in excellent shape. Have had the car looked at by several AACA members and all feel like qualifies for HPOF. A rough estimate would be in the 90% original range. I also bought the car to be a driver..And have discovered it needs valve cover gaskets. If I replace these gaskets, and paint the valve covers, will it be a detriment to me when I show the car in HPOF? The oil has taken the paint off the bottom of the covers, and it's not in my nature to not paint them, but I've also never had an HPOF car. Will be showing at Charlotte next spring.

[MCHinson]

Greg,

Welcome to the Discussion Forum. While I am not an expert, the idea of HPOF is preservation of the original features. My answer would be to do whatever you have to do, but not anything unnecessary. If you could install new gaskets and reinstall the valve covers without painting them, it would be preferable in HPOF. With that said, if it is 90% original, painting the valve covers should not really be a problem.

[novaman]

I'm an HPOF owner. Matt is correct on the best way to handle your oil leak. With the car being 90% original, you should be able to repaint them without it being a qualifying issue, but at the same time, it does take away from the "original-ness" of the car. What I have done is where there is bare metal, flaking paint etc. is to hit it with a little clear to protect it from the elements but at the same time it doesn't hide the fact that there was an issue and what was there to begin with.

[WireWheel]

I believe there should be a minimum condition of a vehicle being awarded the HPOF. I have seen some "barn fresh" vehicles that were not preserved. I would not have wanted to get in or drive some of the vehicles in the HPOF class. Isn't it supposed to be Historical PRESERVED Original Features?

[Shop Rat]

The value of non-restored vehicles is so that someone that has a partial vehicle that is missing items can look at the non-restored vehicle to see what they need to be looking for. Or if items have been changed out to non-authentic items it helps to see what the item should look like even if the example is not perfect.

[WireWheel]

I believe the operative word is Preservation. I don't believe it is preserved if the stuffing is falling out of the upholstery and it is covered with rust and dirt. Please tell me if I am wrong.

[MCHinson]

WireWheel,

Actually, I would suggest that the most important word in the acronymn is "Original". The primary idea is that these cars can be used as a blueprint for restorers. It is best to leave as much alone on an HPOF car as possible. Anything that gets disassembled to "preserve" or "improve" a part means that the car is a little less original, and may not appear exactly as it did when it left the manufacturer.

[R W Burgess]

WireWheel,

Actually, I would suggest that the most important word in the acronymn is "Original". ...........

Exactly...preservation of whatever "original features" that are left to educate!

W.

[novaman]

Wirewheel

In response to your post, Matt pretty much nailed the general idea of the class, and answered the third part of your post, but regarding the other two items;

"I believe there should be a minimum condition of a vehicle being awarded the HPOF."

There is two minium requirements for HOPF compared to the judged classes.

1. ALL Classes - cars must been driven onto the show field (expect race car & Motorcycles which can go through a "prove it runs" process to the chief judge) So an extreme minimum example would be if you entered something that looked like a demo derby winning car in a judged class (even as a do not judge)

2. Minimum requirement for HPOF cars is per AACA Juding Guidelines "The Historical Preservation of Original Features program encourages owners of vehicles 3.5 years old and older, retaining significant original features to allow them to remain in this original condition, and to show them at National Meets. A vehicle may be entirely “original” or it may have certain “original” features such as paint, chassis, upholstery, engine compartment, etc., that are essentially as delivered. They will be certified using a percentage system which includes a total average percentage of the original features of the exterior, interior, chassis and engine. " Other thing is the vehicles are required to be driven onto the show field. If you start repairing that percent decreases very quickly.

"I have seen some "barn fresh" vehicles that were not preserved. I would not have wanted to get in or drive some of the vehicles in the HPOF class."

Those "barn fresh" vehicles are probably trailered to the national meets, and because AACA requires vehicles be driven onto the show field, therefore may have had just enough work done so it runs and stops at low speeds.

Isn't it supposed to be Historical PRESERVED Original Features? Matt already answered.

Edited August 27, 2011 by novaman (see edit history)

[John_Maine]

I've entered my '72 LTD in HPOF at Hershey - assuming my registration arrived in time. I'm very interested to see how it's judged.

[novaman]

Don't forget to fill out the owner's part of the judging form, where you check off the area the car is original.