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'10 Hupp drive train repairs...


Tom400CFI

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Tom, it appears that the outer race was seized to the hub around the threaded end where the hub cap screws on. When you pushed the bearing race out the threaded end of the hub broke off. I see no repair that will fix your problem(safely anyways). Your best bet would be to start a search to find a used hub, plus check the other side for signs of abuse, you may need a pair. Good luck in your search. --Bob

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Well that totally stinks. I'll tell you what, the thing broke w/VERY little effort. Very little. Then when I broke the race/cup, trying to get that steel ring out...THAT thing broke even easier! I barely applied any pressure, and POP!...it was in two pieces.

What is that machined surface on what is left of the hub? Is that nothing more than a "backing" for the outer race to back up against?

The other wheel is the same (worn out) situation...should I even attempt to get the race out of that one? Hub isn't much good now anyway...with a toasted race, the way I see it.

I am planning to take the car on a tour next week....I think that I'm dead-in-the-water. Thanks for the input.

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I took a couple more pics b/c I'm still trying to understand what parts are bearing race, and what parts are hub. I don't want to attempt to take apart the other hub until I figure this out.

Here is the race (left foreground), that "steel ring" that I mentioned earlier (back ground), and the threaded part of the hub, for the hub cap....

photobucket-6324-1371498901962_zps88fff1e3.jpg

I have this idea that the "steel ring" was part of the outer race and the balls wore/cut through it, separating it from the main part of the outer race. I don't know though. Don't know why else that ring would be there, and I can't explain why the "rear" of the race is so rough -like it broke off something, itself. (?)

Stacked, it doesn't even look like the race could be pressed into the hub!...

photobucket-5401-1371498950466_zps0378e6b1.jpg

Here is just the threaded part of the hub w/that "steel ring" put of it. I'm guessing that this part...

photobucket-4935-1371498991807_zpsb82d773e.jpg

is supposed to be attached to this part...

photobucket-1424-1371499028827_zpsf14c57a3.jpg

...like this? Is this how the hub "should" look?

photobucket-6322-1371499075115_zps152b884f.jpg

...because no matter how I rotate the threaded part, i can't seem to get it to "fit" onto the end of the hub. Usually when metal breaks, you can get it to line back up and it fits together nicely. This...it looks like that threaded part never went there.

Edited by Tom400CFI (see edit history)
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Perfect, Ken. Thank you so much. That pic tells everything. Indeed, my balls "sawed" all the way through my outer race and were riding on the I.D. of the threaded end of the hub.

So that "steel ring" IS, (or was) part of the the bearing race. Yikes! Thanks Ken!

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Hubs are off/out of the wheels and down at a machine shop in Salt Lake City for a modern bearing solution upgrade. They are backed up several weeks so in the mean time, I'm considering the Ford hub ides.

Either way, Hupp won't be touring next week. It's not going to make it. :(

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Edgar Bowen

Hi Tom and Ken, Perhaps I am a bit too late for you but this is my experience:- I measured the gap between drum and crankcase at 7/32nds of an inch. Originally this gap was filled with two brass washers sandwiching a fibre washer which acted as a thrust bearing to counter pressure applied on the clutch pedal. A modern thrust bearing AXK4565 with a thin washer on each side conveniently replaces this arrangement. Similarly the bearing in the clutch on the end of the coil spring has also been replaced with a thrust bearing AXK4060 and washers LS4060 on each side plus AS4060 with a spacer fitted to take up the extra diameter necessary to enlarge the brass bush shoulder which locates them.. all the best, Edgar

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  • 5 years later...

Simon

First of all the  clutch  actuation  rod I think has to much play in it  This  will mean the clutch is not engaging fully 

Secondly  what oil do you have in the gearbox ? - Should be engine  oil  -the multiple discs  in the clutch have to separate  and the wrong thickness of oil makes this impossible .

 

Nice last couple of days in Melbourne !  Enjoyed some nice wine tasting  in the Yarra valley . Some amazing Shiraz/Syrah  ( some bottles  of which will cross the  Tasman home  with me ) However I still believe  New Zealand makes the better Sauv Blancs  and Pinot Noirs-  but maybe I'm just used to our style -Karl

 

 

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thanks for the reply Karl, I am glad your enjoying Melbourne and it crazy weather.

I have Penrite Shelsley Med sae30 oil in the box .

I believe it has a thrust washer missing between the clutch fork and clutch basket, which in return is giving the excess movement on the clutch rod, thus not giving enough disengagement of the clutch plates.

 

any thoughts anyone, before i pull the box out?

thanks Simon

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  • 1 month later...

Well I bit the bullet and pulled the gearbox out after a couple of runs in it with the clutch getting worse, not disengaging and slipping, so the works...

so after pulling the box out I find that the previous owner failed to put any thrust washer between the clutch basket and block and no thrust ball bearing behind the spring... now wonder I was having trouble.

 

if anyone has tips,tricks, sizes of bearing and washers or the correct parts I could buy, please let me know it would be greatly appreciated.

 

with further investigation on the box casing, the torque tube ball mount is cracked....Bugga, so I need to get this welded up by someone who can weld cast.

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Hi Simon and David,

 

Here are some photos I obtained from this forum when I was having a problem with my gearbox/clutch.  My engine would slow down and stall when the clutch was depressed and on pull down, I found the thrust washers were missing.  With the help of this forum, i had washers made up and now things work pretty well.

 

Cheers, Andrew.

78723d1297537194-10-hupp-drive-train-repairs-000_2479.jpg

Clutch drum thrust washers.jpg

Radiused thrust washer.jpg

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I don't have a spare  exhaust manifold but what I do have  is all the patterns to cast one .

The previous owner of my car cast mine when he restored the car and I ended up with the patterns .

If you can't find one then  I could explore what it would cost to get one cast locally. I suspect should be  reasonable as most of the money goes in making the patterns which we already have -Karl 

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  • 6 months later...
On 12/12/2018 at 4:53 AM, Simon Anderson said:

 

if anyone has tips,tricks, sizes of bearing and washers or the correct parts I could buy, please let me know it would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

I thought I included part numbers of all the modern bearings that I used.   I know I'm replying VERY late...Haven't been on this forum in a long time.  I can go back and look, but I used the stock ball thrust bearing inside the clutch, and modern, roller thrust bearings for the throw out and the thrust between the clutch housing and crank case.  

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Found it on page 4...

 

"For me, the LS4060 and it's respective races didn't fit over the shoulder of my clutch housing. I had to throw it in the lathe and cut that bit down, even with the rest of the shaft, then polish it. Came out sweet, and I'm confident that it will work really well.. WAY better than the bushing stack that originally resided there.

I didn't have to replace the "behind the spring" ball thrust bearing, but I am also replacing the "throw-out bushing" with a needle thrust bearing too. In my case, I'm using a TRD-4458, which fits awesome, and I think it will work really well. Both bearings have 7000+ lbf ratings, and 7000+ RPM limits...so I think it's safe to say that they'll last a while in this application!"

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