PreWar Mercedes Benz

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

I am sure posted before, though love these type photos of cars on the street.

 

I think so but never bad to see a Mercedes Special Roadster in period.   The skirted fenders are unique and I'm gonna guess added on by someone other than Sindelfingen.  The rear fender stone shield is another add on. 

[alsancle]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:44 PM, 540K said:

I'm sure many of you saw the dismal results of the Bonham's sale of the green Mayfair 500 K roadster at Amelia. What a haircut! The previous sales, including just last year, were $825,000 and $830,000. This year - $362,500!!  Probably a 60% loss after fees to the current owner. Not a great body style, and needs fresh restoration and a new color, but holy crap - it's still a one-of-one 500 K.

 

RHD is the US is bad news on a car that was available LHD.   I think it is a 25% discount, or more.     Based on recent public and private sales,  I would have called this a 475k car,   so the 100k discount is steep.

[md murray]

A nice tail shot of that car too.

[John_Mereness]

21 hours ago, 540K said:

I hope no one pulled up behind him.

I did notice that, though did not really give it much thought - I was trying to figure out what was parked in front.  With zero maneuverability this Mercedes literally needs a good half a car length distance front and rear.  

[John_Mereness]

20 hours ago, alsancle said:

 The rear fender stone shield is another add on. 

My guess it did not take long in any place on globe to quickly get off paved roads.  I have two Auburn's from California, with one being mainly from Pasadena the other being mainly Downtown LA, with both  pre-restoration having their fair share of mud, tar, and stones packed into the corners. 

[540K]

I guess on this trip one tire was destroyed - note the bare wheel under the spare. Also, both Netherlands and Great Britain shields on the back - maybe they got out of the Netherlands before it was occupied. My car, presumably still in the Netherlands, was wreckage after WWII.

[John_Mereness]

On 3/15/2020 at 3:09 PM, alsancle said:

I am sure this is burried on one of 80 pages, but if not:  View of Mercedes-Benz 540K convertible coupe. Typed on back: "Mercedes 540K conv. coupe (Melton)." Handwritten on back: "James Melton's 540K Mercedes."

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Detroit Public Library:  View of a woman driver posing in a Mercedes convertible. Handwritten on back: "Supercharged Mercedes. The Autocar, 16/4/34.

[alsancle]

The Melton car may be the most photographed 540K in existence, although a photo of it pre-Melton has yet to show up.    This is what it looks like now.

 

[alsancle]

Btw,   There is period evidence of Melton talking about modifying the fenders,   which is why the red version looks different.  Supposedly the car was scalloped originally,  although when they reproduced them they didn't quite get the rear one right.

[John_Mereness]

 

Claire Windsor, Conrad Nagel, on-set of the Silent Film, "Tin Hats", MGM, 1926 

[alsancle]

So this should give some of you a chuckle.   Watch big Al's face when the car starts.  I want to point out that this car always starts so I'm not sure what he's shocked about.

 

 

[edinmass]

It shocked the hell out of me........I have known you more than twenty years and i had never seen that car run..........I want sure it could move under its own power! 🦠😷

Edited April 4, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

17 hours ago, edinmass said:

It shocked the hell out of me........I have known you more than twenty years and i had never seen that car run..........I want sure it could move under its own power! 🦠😷

 

It always ran,  it's just that it burns 1000 dollar bills instead of regular gas like most other cars.      Now that you mention it, there is one really funny time a year ago.  I drove over to my parents and parked at the end of the drive.   Their driveway is about 80 feet long with a slight incline towards the garage.    It was dead as a door nail and my dad tells me to hop in and he's gonna jump start me.   He was serious.   The neighbors are across the street watching this.    I let him grunt a couple of times for effect before I made him switch places with me,  warning him not to drive through the garage door.   It fired right away.     My 3 month old Optima battery (400 bucks) was junk.

 

 

[Davlet]

On 4/4/2020 at 9:49 AM, alsancle said:

So this should give some of you a chuckle.   Watch big Al's face when the car starts.  I want to point out that this car always starts so I'm not sure what he's shocked about.

 

 

Love it 

[Davlet]

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6681-1934-horch-780-b-sport-cabriolet-cabriolet/

 

This is not a Mercedes but looks great. But ther is aback graound on a car... please be advised...

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Davlet said:

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6681-1934-horch-780-b-sport-cabriolet-cabriolet/

 

This is not a Mercedes but looks great. But ther is aback graound on a car... please be advised...

 

Dav,

 

I think the price and the following paragraph give away the issue.   Btw,  I've sat in this car and it is beautiful.

 

This rare and elegant Horch is one of a handful of late-production Type 780 B models in existence, featuring gorgeous sport cabriolet coachwork by Gläserkarosserie, GmbH. This stunning automobile was meticulously restored to a very high standard by a noted marque specialist, with subtle improvements for relaxed, enjoyable touring. This car was the third-from-last 780 B chassis constructed, delivered to an unknown owner in 1934. After World War II, it made its way to Belarus, where it spent the next six decades quietly hidden away. At the time of its discovery in 2005, the original coachwork was long lost, so the restorers paired it with this marvelous and well-preserved Sportcabriolet body, understood to be a Gläser creation first fitted to a Horch Type 710 chassis.

[Dad]

On 6/17/2020 at 3:17 PM, MB Streamliner said:

Engine for identification. This is the Nurb. 500 motor but the motor is different from the original.

Who knows about these differences?

 

 

 

 

Isn't it engine from the 24KV generator?

 

Exhaust outgoing up and missing fuel pump...

 

Dad.

[MBK]

Hello,

I’m new to this forum. I’m looking for 380k, 500k and 540k parts. If anyone here has or knows someone who has original parts for sale please let me know. I can also help with parts I have in stock if someone is looking. I have 2 projects now, one 540k cab b, and one 500k, i need parts for the body in the picture 500k cab c.

Martin Biernacki

[Davlet]

54 minutes ago, MBK said:

Hello,

I’m new to this forum. I’m looking for 380k, 500k and 540k parts. If anyone here has or knows someone who has original parts for sale please let me know. I can also help with parts I have in stock if someone is looking. I have 2 projects now, one 540k cab b, and one 500k, i need parts for the body in the picture 500k cab c.

Martin Biernacki

 

 

Is that the one from Poland?

[MBK]

3 minutes ago, Davlet said:

 

 

Is that the one from Poland?

No not from Poland, it is in Poland now but originally from midwest in US. Sat for 50 years in previous owner's garage. I shipped it to Poland to restore. Why did you think of Poland? Have you heard of this car or maybe someone elses? 

 

[alsancle]

Few interesting Mercedes for sale today at Bonham's Quail auction.    Aggressive estimates in my humble opinion,  but we shall see.    30 years ago when my dad was selling his car the town car was offered up as a partial trade.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25839/lot/26

 

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25839/lot/29

 

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25839/lot/33/

 

 

The Tourenwagen sold for 1.5 in a much stronger market a few years ago.   Not sure why the estimate would be 500k more.

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo17/monterey/lots/r197-1936-mercedes-benz-500-k-offener-tourenwagen-by-sindelfingen/430292

 

[Davlet]

Maybach 

[Davlet]

Kind a quet

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, Davlet said:

Kind a quet

 

Seems that way Dav.  What deals have you been working?

 

Here is a nice 230 that sold at Bonhams Amelia for 42k all in.  Pay for 1/4 of the restoration and get the car for free.

 

 

 

[alsancle]

This 500k sold for 362k all in at Bonhams Amelia and was the cheapest decent running 500k/540k I've seen in the last 20 years.   If you don't mind RHD it was quite the deal.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25719/lot/185/

 

 

The ex-William Lassiter Jr., Paul Karassik
1934 Mercedes-Benz 500K Four-Passenger Tourer
Coachwork by Mayfair Carriage Works Ltd. of London
Chassis no. 123689
Engine no. 123689

5,019cc OHV Inline 8-cylinder Engine with Rootes Supercharger
160bhp at 3400rpm With Blower Engaged
4-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Independent Suspension
4-Wheel Drum Brakes

*One of just eight RHD 500K chassis delivered to England for custom coachwork
*Believed to be the only Mayfair-bodied 500K
*Matching numbers
*Restored in the 1990s
*Lightweight aluminum body

[alsancle]

There was a time in my younger dumber days where something like this would be very interesting.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25838/lot/355

 

 

1935 Mercedes-Benz 290 Cabriolet A
Coachwork by Sindelfingen
Engine no. 101829.352

2,867cc Inline 6-Cylinder Engine
Single Updraft Carburetor
68bhp at 3,400rpm
4-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Independent Suspension
4-Wheel Hydraulic Drum Brakes

*Sporting and elegant Cabriolet A bodywork
*Enticing 'Barn-find' condition, with outstanding originality
*A rewarding restoration project with great potential
*Offered from the Petersen Automotive Museum Vault Collection


Previewing in Los Angeles, California by appointment. Please contact motors.us@bonhams.com for scheduling.


THE TYPE 290

Introduced in 1934, the Mercedes-Benz Type 290 (or W18 as it was referred to internally) was descended from one of the Stuttgart factory's most important and influential designs: the Type 170. The latter was the work of the company's Technical Director, Hans Nibel, a man more famous as the creator of Mercedes-Benz's successful W25 racer. With the market for its luxury models hard hit by the Depression, Mercedes-Benz had sought to establish itself in the medium-priced family car market sector with the 170. Launched in 1931, the latter embodied Nibel's advanced ideas on chassis design, featuring a box-section frame with independent suspension all round and four-wheel hydraulic brakes. Its power unit was a six-cylinder side-valve of 1,692cc, which transmitted its modest maximum output via a four-speed gearbox to a rubber-mounted differential.

Competitively priced, the 170 was a huge success and spawned a family of larger-engined, more-powerful models, the first of which - the 200 - appeared in 1932. The 200 was joined in 1934 by the outwardly similar six-cylinder 2.9-liter 290, the latter featuring revised front suspension among other improvements.

Capable of a maximum speed of more than 120 km/h depending on the style of coachwork fitted, the 290 was available in both short and long chassis variants, the latter affording coachbuilders greater freedom of expression. In Germany, there were as many as 14 different body styles available, with the majority hand-crafted by Mercedes-Benz' renowned in-house coachbuilder Sindelfingen. There were no fewer than four different Cabriolet body types with two or four doors and between two and four seats available, designated as the Cabriolet A, the Cabriolet B, the Cabriolet C and the Cabriolet D. The Cabriolet A was the most sporting and remains the most desirable model to this day, featuring light and elegant two-seat, Roadster-like bodywork.


THE MOTORCAR OFFERED

The charming 'Barn-find' Mercedes-Benz 290 offered here features the desirable and sporting Cabriolet A coachwork by Sindelfingen, and the beautifully flowing body design fitted on the short wheelbase Type 290 chassis gives it a dramatic and elegant look. Made to order in 1935 and believed to have been delivered new to Burgundy, France, this Cabriolet A has a very interesting provenance. Originally ordered by a wine maker in a dark red color, it ended up at a dispersal sale in Marseilles after the war. In 1957, an American working in France purchased it from a mechanic in Arles for about 200 dollars. The mechanic told him that it came with a box full of German banners, flags, and flag mounts, but the box was still in Marseilles. The American drove the car up a bustling street to the address given to him by the mechanic, but by the time he had turned around to park, the street was suddenly and mysteriously dead, devoid of people. His knocking went unanswered for some time, and he thought it best to leave the strong emotions apparently elicited by this vehicle in Marseilles. He drove the car to Switzerland, around Paris, and eventually to Frankfurt, where he had it serviced and inspected by Mercedes-Benz engineers. He later imported the car to New York, driving it successfully during its long journey to Baltimore, MD.

This elegant Mercedes-Benz 290 Cabriolet A has been preserved in largely original condition and is an impressive example of prewar Mercedes-Benz sporting luxury. Inside a very old red interior is in situ, and the classic white-faced VDO gauges adorn the dashboard. The car appears largely complete, with many parts packed into the cabin. The bodywork is tied to the chassis for shipping purposes and might have been off the chassis at some point. These rare and beautiful Sindelfingen Cabriolet A's are highly sought after on the international collector car market, and this example offers the perfect starting point for a Concours level restoration back to its former glory. The car is offered from the Petersen Vault Collection.

[Davlet]

I think this car was sold in same condition 2 years ago in New York by Peter

[alsancle]

5 hours ago, Davlet said:

I think this car was sold in same condition 2 years ago in New York by Peter

if it was that one it was a lot of money.

[md murray]

Why would Bonham's take pictures of every nook and cranny of the car but not show the engine? It would be cool, particularly in this case, to be able to see.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, md murray said:

Why would Bonham's take pictures of every nook and cranny of the car but not show the engine? It would be cool, particularly in this case, to be able to see.

 

Simple.  It would be a tremendous let down given the otherwise very sporty and nice styling of the car.   It looks a lot like this:

 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Simple.  It would be a tremendous let down given the otherwise very sporty and nice styling of the car.   It looks a lot like this:

 

I see NOTHING wrong with a pre war car using an engine similar to this! 🤫

[alsancle]

The 370 is a precursor to the 290 - Mercedes "middle class" offering.  Actually, maybe upper middle class.    I've always thought these were really cool except for the downward slope on the side window.  Not sure why they did that.

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/0620/open-roads--fall/lots/r0024-1931-mercedes-benz-370-s-mannheim-sport-cabriolet/995579

 

The provenance of this 370 S is documented by a copy of its factory commission sheet, noting its delivery with engine and chassis both numbered 87058 and “Sport Cabr./2” coachwork, thus confirming its delivery in the desirable configuration in which it is presented today. It was ordered by the Mercedes-Benz agent in Vienna, Austria, for Count Ferdinand, of the noble Austrian Arco-Zinneberg family, for delivery to his home in St. Martin im Innkreis. A subsequent owner was likewise of noble birth, a “Freiherr” by the name of Rudolf von Hudolin, in Salzburg. Von Hudolin sold the car on 25 February 1960, to Koos Blakestein. These ownership changes were noted in the original Austrian registration booklet, which was sadly destroyed in a 2018 house fire; fortunately, the historical details it contained regarding the 370 S’s early life had been previously recorded.

Koos Blakestein subsequently relocated with the car to the Netherlands in 1960; he advertised the 370 S to American buyers, using the same photo as had been depicted in its Austrian registration booklet, in the September 1960 issue of Sports Cars Illustrated. The car was then purchased by longtime Mercedes-Benz Club of North America member Allen Bishop of Deerfield, Illinois, in suburban Chicago, and thus arrived in the United States.

In an article he wrote for The First Century, Jules Barsotti noted that he acquired the car in Chicago, presumably from Mr. Bishop, in 1966, paying $6,000 for it. Noted San Francisco enthusiast Martin Swig (then the European Motors sales manager) helped arrange the transaction. With the assistance of his father, himself a skilled inventor and fabricator who had built the world’s first amphibious automobile in 1914, Mr. Barsotti completed a brief cosmetic and mechanical restoration, and put the car in his showroom. It left the dealership to attend the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance in 1972 and 1973, winning 3rd in Class the latter year.

Longtime Concours co-chair Jules Heumann, appreciating the car with his connoisseur’s eye, suggested to Mr. Barsotti that he do a proper restoration, as the 370 S “was really worth it.” The owner listened, and after a rather adventurous four-year restoration effort—including the purloining of the car by a former employee, and its subsequent retrieval—the Sport Cabriolet did, indeed, win Best in Class at Pebble Beach in 1977.

Many more exhibits followed, including more years on display in the San Francisco showroom of European Motors, and appearances at Pebble Beach and in the Natural History Museum in 1986, for which the car received a new California blue license plate: “100 YEARS,” replacing its longstanding “BENZ 28” (honoring what was thought, at the time, to be its model year). Eventually, as its owner aged, it was put into storage in the City by the Bay—alongside other significant cars that Mr. Barsotti had collected over the years—until it was purchased by its present owner and consignor in 2017.

Since acquiring the Mercedes-Benz from the Barsotti Collection, the consignor has set about doing the mechanical work necessary to return it to running and operating condition. Its engine was removed and serviced, and now benefits from custom Arias pistons, new Total Seal rings, and new wrist pins; the head was milled, and a custom head gasket fitted. Further, both carburetors, as well as the water pump, were rebuilt, the gas tank removed and cleaned, and the brake system overhauled. The car’s wire wheels, six in total, were cleaned, trued, and powder coated, after which new Excelsior Stahl Sport radial tires and new tubes were installed. Accompanying invoices attest to the work performed. The consignor does note, however, that the vacuum booster for the brakes leaks; vacuum lines for the brakes as well as the overdrive control are currently disconnected. It should be noted that while the 370 S is operational, it has not been driven any distance or fully sorted for long-distance road use, which would be advisable before attempting any extended touring.

Cosmetically, the car’s restoration is aged, yet it remains very solid and complete. Plenty of originality is evident throughout. Its next owner could, if they choose, complete this 370 S Sport Cabriolet’s mechanical refurbishment and enjoy the car in its patinated state. Alternatively, it would also be an ideal basis for authentic restoration of a rare and beautiful Mercedes-Benz—one made all the more appealing by its notable provenance—perhaps with an eye to returning it to the Pebble Beach lawn again one day in the future.

 

[edinmass]

The above car appeals much more to me than the "Big Boy Toy" 500k & 540k. Classic German looks, great engineering, and none of the over complicated BS of the big boys. I think the above car is fantastic........and I would own it. AJ....start bidding......I will become a 370 expert for you. 👍👍

[alsancle]

On 9/30/2020 at 4:20 PM, alsancle said:

There was a time in my younger dumber days where something like this would be very interesting.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25838/lot/355

 

 

1935 Mercedes-Benz 290 Cabriolet A
Coachwork by Sindelfingen
Engine no. 101829.352

 

 

Sold for US$ 362,500 inc.premium

 

Keep in mind,  400-600k will probably buy you a running driving 500k these days.  I don't understand.

 

 

[Davlet]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Sold for US$ 362,500 inc.premium

 

Keep in mind,  400-600k will probably buy you a running driving 500k these days.  I don't understand.

 

 

That called auction big games. Let see how long it will take get back to auction again??

[Davlet]

https://roadscholars.com/restoration_projects/1935-mercedes-benz-290a-sindelfingen-swb-cabriolet/

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, Davlet said:

https://roadscholars.com/restoration_projects/1935-mercedes-benz-290a-sindelfingen-swb-cabriolet/

 

I have never understood how preservation means maintaining the dirt on the car from 10 years ago and not the paint on the car from 80  years ago.

[Matt Harwood]

37 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

I have never understood how preservation means maintaining the dirt on the car from 10 years ago and not the paint on the car from 80  years ago.

 

I am frustrated by that as well--you've surely seen me mocking the preservation of the dirt. The whole concept of "preservation" and "originality" is getting distorted, just as "restoration" has. Dirt isn't part of preservation. We should really create [yet another] category called "as found" or something like that. A preserved car is one that has always been loved and maintained and used, not restored. Something you drag out of a barn after 40 years and get it running well enough to limp onto a show field isn't really a "survivor," it's more of an "exister." Not the same at all.

 

It's just another flavor of the month for the trophy hounds to pursue, I guess. I'm sure we'll eventually hear some auction house start touting cars that still have the original oil in the crankcase or original air in the tires, and that will become the new gold standard for the ultra-wealthy.

[John_Mereness]

On 9/30/2020 at 6:20 PM, alsancle said:

There was a time in my younger dumber days where something like this would be very interesting.

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25838/lot/355

 

 

1935 Mercedes-Benz 290 Cabriolet A

Just needs a new top, tires, hubcaps, some wax, and a couple hundred thousand dollars thrown at it - this is the pep squad here.