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PreWar Mercedes Benz


alsancle
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Hello everyone,
I appeal to you, hoping that you may be able to help me. In May 1945, General Leclerc's 2nd Armored Division seized two Mercedes typ 770 Grosser w150s from Hitler's fleet. One was a Tourenwagen Offener, today in the Musée Henri Malartre, located in Rochetaillée sur Saône, near Lyon.
The second one, for which I am calling on you, is a Pullman Limousine registered IA-148696 (for which a false number was subsequently painted: Z96501).
When this car was presented to General Leclerc, the latter decided to bring it to General de Gaulle as a gift. De Gaulle did not want it and sent it to the Army Museum in Paris. The museum entrusted it to a fighting solidarity association called "VICTOIRE" which showed it in France, Belgium and Holland in order to raise funds for war orphans.
In 1948, the car was sent to the US to be presented to the public, but did not return to France. It was sold and for thirty years no one has seen this car again. A certain Austin Weiss showed phtos, claiming, two or three years ago, to have restored it.
In a year, we will celebrate the 75th anniversary of the end of the war, and we would love to see this car again. Does any of you know anything about this?
thank you in advance
My contact address: jeanluc.auriac@gmail.com

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On 3/29/2019 at 7:56 AM, alsancle said:

 

I'm probably over reacting to the chrome wires with white walls.  I just remember being disappointed when I saw the restored car.

I think  many early photos of it showed it was running on Firestone whitewalls (and had a set on it when "found" too).

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15 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

I think  many early photos of it showed it was running on Firestone whitewalls (and had a set on it when "found" too).

 

Many cars were defiled with white walls early in their lives but  95% of all Daimler Benz were delivered with blackwalls and every Special Roadster that I can think of.  Here is an early picture of the von Kreiger car (from Pinterest saved by Daniel Gerson)

 

image.png.de25d26868ad8bce95ab8ae3651c49ea.png

 

 

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4 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Many cars were defiled with white walls early in their lives but  95% of all Daimler Benz were delivered with blackwalls and every Special Roadster that I can think of.  Here is an early picture of the von Kreiger car (from Pinterest saved by Daniel Gerson)

 

image.png.de25d26868ad8bce95ab8ae3651c49ea.png

 

 

Great Photo  !

 

Siednote: I wonder if given size there were no "high quality" tires available in US in anything other than a whitewall. 

 

Anyway, I liked the double whitewalls as they were a little something different, but it certainly looks better with its current blackwalls.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/12/2019 at 6:08 PM, jeanluc81 said:

Hello everyone,
I appeal to you, hoping that you may be able to help me. In May 1945, General Leclerc's 2nd Armored Division seized two Mercedes typ 770 Grosser w150s from Hitler's fleet. One was a Tourenwagen Offener, today in the Musée Henri Malartre, located in Rochetaillée sur Saône, near Lyon.
The second one, for which I am calling on you, is a Pullman Limousine registered IA-148696 (for which a false number was subsequently painted: Z96501).
When this car was presented to General Leclerc, the latter decided to bring it to General de Gaulle as a gift. De Gaulle did not want it and sent it to the Army Museum in Paris. The museum entrusted it to a fighting solidarity association called "VICTOIRE" which showed it in France, Belgium and Holland in order to raise funds for war orphans.
In 1948, the car was sent to the US to be presented to the public, but did not return to France. It was sold and for thirty years no one has seen this car again. A certain Austin Weiss showed phtos, claiming, two or three years ago, to have restored it.
In a year, we will celebrate the 75th anniversary of the end of the war, and we would love to see this car again. Does any of you know anything about this?
thank you in advance
My contact address: jeanluc.auriac@gmail.com

110306491_o.jpg

110306595_o.jpg

110412894.jpg

1636467897535893126-hitler-car.jpg

hitler-mercedes-513aad2.jpg

53194152_415250189244215_879129210776453120_n.jpg

53563794_415250082577559_5910875292884271104_n.jpg

mev-10586658.jpg

 

In 2012/2013, a named Austin Weiss, from The Garage Inc in Florida, pretended restorate the car, but he don't give any information...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUnT2Va1sEk

 

92095212e26c11e194471231380ff9db_71.jpg

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On 3/5/2019 at 12:03 PM, alsancle said:

Rolf Wagner is selling shift knobs with the pattern engraved.   Definitely a good idea for any of the 4 speed 500k/540k cars.  I think all the 5 speed cars already have engraved knobs.

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Someone told me these aren't correct, that the originals were more flat  on the top rather than ball-shaped. I know the shape he's talking about but haven't seen anyone making those.

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, 540K said:

Someone told me these aren't correct, that the originals were more flat  on the top rather than ball-shaped.

 

None of the 500k's had an engraved knob to my knowledge in any event.   If you google up the James Melton car, RM has pictures of the shift knob.   Put your original knob in the glove box!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, jrbartlett said:

The car at the side of the Mercedes sure looks like it has a Murphy body on it -- very similar to the one on my Duesenberg. Dual-cowl with split vee-windshield in the rear.

 

Im thinking AL Minerva. And agreed on Murphy body.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Only two 500 K / 540 K up for sale in Monterey this year, both at Gooding. A gorgeous Cab C, and an ugly Cab A. I cannot recall seeing a worse paint color than what is on the Cab A. It looks like gray primer. Maybe it looks better in person. On the other hand, best color on the Cab C. As they sit, I'd take the Cab C. With a repaint I'd take the Cab A of course.

poster.jpg?1 poster.jpg?1

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I have played around with the Cab C. It’s is the  best Mercedes I have ever worked on. Well sorted, (yup, I helped out), starts, drives, shifts, steers, and stops great. Almost no one will spend the money to sort these cars out..........And I can tell you straight away, this is the best there is. No excuses, history from new, always cherished, and lovingly maintained by the current owner, who has had a 500/540 in the garage since he was born.........simply none better. Ed

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The two cars are dimensionally identical and practically mechanically identical.   The hoods would interchange,  but the low raked windshield and lower roofline makes quite a  difference on the Cab A.   That is why a RHD Cab A that probably needs 700-800 worth of restoration to be the same as the Cab C would be worth twice as much money.

 

The 5 speed is rare on the Cab A,  and having the original engine in such a late car is even rarer.   Would be interesting to drive to see how it compares with the 4 speed that was in 90% of the cars.

 

 

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Dav,   you know th Cab C was a US delivery car.  No war time action for that one.   I think the gray faded in the last 50 years on the A, it might have looked better in 1965.

 

Craig,   there is no such thing as an ugly Cab A.   It needs the sidemounts put back,  but to paraphrase a more  famous saying:  " I wouldn't throw the Cab A out of my garage".

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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42 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Craig,   there is no such thing as an ugly Cab A.   

Yeah, that's what I thought until I saw this one. I think the only way it could be worse is to add lime green polka dots and whitewalls. As is, I'd still take the Cab C regardless of value, because I'd rather see that in my garage every day.

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1941 Mercedes-Benz 540 K Cabriolet A has chassis number 189392 and AUFTRAGS № 286828. 

This AUFTRAGS № 286828 should belong to Chassis 16939x that was made in 1938.

Also all Chassis from 189381 - 189430 was made in 1938.

In 1941 - 189412 and 189423 were converted to armored  Spezial Aktion VIP Armoured Cars.

How can this chassis 189392 have a date of 1941?

Probably the owner of this car is lying about the story.

In 1941 were made only from 408359 - 408430. 

 

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If you read the description: This fascinating 540 K Cabriolet A, chassis 189392, was built later in the model run, with its chassis being completed in July 1938, and its coachwork was not completed until October 1939. Built in right-hand drive, 189392 was originally intended for the British market. However, with the outbreak of WWII, German cars could not be exported to the UK and, according to documents with the car, it remained in storage, unsold throughout 1940. In April 1941, 189392 was purchased through the Mercedes-Benz dealer in Helsinki, Finland, by Baron Gustaf Wrede.

 

It is my opinion Gooding should not be advertising this car as a 1941. 1938 chassis, 1939 coachwork, sold new in 1941. I say it's a 1939.

 

408425 was started in 1939 and not completed until 1952 according to Kienle, the last 540 K ever finished. I think Kienle calls it a 1939/52 which seems cumbersome but descriptive. 

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
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The AUFTRAGS № 286828 is for 1938.

Mercedes never sold a car without a finished body.

Even if the body was ready in 1939, the AUFTRAGS number should have numbers, which are relevant for 1939 starting from 288xxx.

In 1940/41, these AUFTRAGS numbers started from 301xxx.

In 1941. AUFTRAGS 321xxx  -  343xxx

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Mercedes dated a car based on when it sold, not when it was constructed.  There is a lot of variation of features vs “year” but ultimately the chassis number tells all.

My one question would be the 5 speed on such an early chassis.  That seems to be an anomaly.

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