Jump to content

PreWar Mercedes Benz


Recommended Posts

The rebodied 540K Spezial-Roadster went for $2,172,000, assuming it met reserve. The auction staff told me a week ago they were trying to get the owner to lower the reserve, but I don't know what it was, and with the auction conducted in French, I couldn't tell whether it sold or not. I'll look to see when the official results are posted..

News reports do not reflect that the 540K sold. The reserve must have been nearly 3X the most recent sale of a rebodied roadster. Given the mistakes in the restoration (no central lube system, too many tail pipes, too few hood handles, no distributor cap cover), I think the bidding was more than fair.

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites
Craig, what do you mean by too many tail pipes?

The Sindelfingen long-tail Spezial-Roadsters had only one tail pipe, not two like many of the other body styles, including some of the one-off roadsters. I believe this is supported by photos, and is correct according to Jim Friswold. The Prahl car has two tail pipes, probably because that's what it had from the factory as a Cab B.

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I can't say that I have ever been able to detect a pattern with the number of tail pipes. I have seen duals and singles on all body styles and assumed it was simply an option that the customer could ask for or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The seats in my 320 B are original. I have noticed small changes or a different choice during restoration of other 320B cars.

Chris

The seats on the 320 Cab B are more or less correct from what I can see. The execution maybe not so great. Looks like they used foam since you can see the edges of the foam showing sharp corners under the leather. These cars (Cab B and D) did have a combination of pleats and wider panels. One thing is for sure, you can't look at one body style and assume it's the same for another. Both my Cab A and Combination Coupe originally had significantly different upholstery treatment. And as you 500K 540K owners know, the upholstery patterns can vary quite a bit from car to car, regardless of body style.

post-102949-143142965649_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you have some other nice MB

Can you share photos of 1936 Mercedes 170V Cab A?

Thanks

Dave

The seats in my 320 B are original. I have noticed small changes or a different choice during restoration of other 320B cars.

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 170 is a very early version. The hood ornament is not the rad cap. The cap is under the hood. The car needs a complete restoration. The license tag is 1961. My dad got it in 1967 and stored it ever since. Other cars were restored and he regretted never getting to this one. Other than some interesting wiring on the generator, the car seems to be original. The car was in an accident and that is why it went off the road. The rear of the car needs to be pulled out and fixed. I am looking for the some of the wood structure that has rotted away. It would be nice to find an example to make a pattern off of. There is some sheet metal that has rusted away in the floor pan areas. All in all it is a great project that I hope to start as soon as a few other cars are sorted out.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/108090035@N05/sets/72157637491160526/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris

Davlet is the person who bought 500k cab c in MN, maybach sw38 sedan in NY. 300sl Gullwing in Connecticut and some other cars.

Some times people buy stuff some time sale. So Davlet just asked. I do apologize for your time.

Will try do not contact you any more.

Again really sorry about that.

Davlet

I just got a second request from Davlet to sell my cars. Posting about my cars is getting the wrong kind of attention.

Chris

Edited by Davlet (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found evidence of the following sales since the mid-1980's:

33 Cab A's, one didn't meet reserve (includes two coming up for sale next month)

11 Cab B's

12 Cab C's

12 misc Cabriolets, either unknown style or one-offs

20 roadsters and special roadsters (4 rebodied from Cab's; one didn't meet reserve). About half the roadster sales are since mid-2011.

They only made about 1/3 as many Cab A's as other Cab's, and yet they have appeared on the market as many times as all the other Cab's put together. I realize these numbers include multiple sales of the same cars, but why do you suppose the B/C's aren't changing hands?

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

All about Business

many people are trying to make a money on car sales most of the people are now investing money to the cars than gold or property. so best investment cars are high end cars. And fashion was on last 3 years for 300sl. that why most of the Auctions raced prices for them now when all real buyers bought all 300sl prices going down :) and will be down. that regarding 300sl :)

For cab a same things :)

most of the sales on auction was same cars. with same numbers. I do not think if you buy car for your personal collection you are ready to sale them in 2 years.

most of the real collectors are keeping car all live until last day :). even more than that.

That what I think

I have found evidence of the following sales since the mid-1980's:

33 Cab A's, one didn't meet reserve

11 Cab B's

12 Cab C's

12 misc Cabriolets, either unknown style or one-offs

20 roadsters and special roadsters (4 rebodied from Cab's; one didn't meet reserve). About half the roadster sales are since mid-2011.

They only made about 1/3 as many Cab A's as other Cab's, and yet they have appeared on the market as many times as all the other Cab's put together. I realize these numbers include multiple sales of the same cars, but why do you suppose the B/C's aren't changing hands?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but high water raises all boats. Gullwings went up first, and then the roadsters went with them. Why aren't more of the B/C owners trying to capitalize on the high prices?

All about Business

many people are trying to make a money on car sales most of the people are now investing money to the cars than gold or property. so best investment cars are high end cars. And fashion was on last 3 years for 300sl. that why most of the Auctions raced prices for them now when all real buyers bought all 300sl prices going down :) and will be down. that regarding 300sl :)

For cab a same things :)

most of the sales on auction was same cars. with same numbers. I do not think if you buy car for your personal collection you are ready to sale them in 2 years.

most of the real collectors are keeping car all live until last day :). even more than that.

That what I think

Edited by 540K (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

They might be a real collectors.

Not many request on big action houses for cab b/c. But privet sales are going from $700K to up $1 mil. and the b/c more was build and survived more than cab a.

Now it hard to find an original cars In some Europe counters you can find more and more reproduction or re-body cars. So some of the cars even has only 50% original parts. Same with that 320 sales on auction for 1 mil. everyone who in touch with villeinage Mercedes Benz know that it is a b..... s....

But that is strategy of market they will try now sale other cars cab c/b/ for higher price if real buyer will bit something high all prices will go up. :) if not you will not see any of them on auctions for next 2 years.

I did a lot of analysis and there is a different ways to bring prices up.

Yes, but high water raises all boats. Gullwings went up first, and then the roadsters went with them. Why aren't more of the B/C owners trying to capitalize on the high prices?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone. On the subject of replicas, I have come across someone in Poland who builds spezial roadster and cabriolet A bodies out of steel. They weigh about 600 kg, and he claims they are dimensionally accurate, being based on original technical drawings. There are some pictures on this link:

http://www.aukcjoner.pl/gallery/012853692-7.html#I7

Now the bonnet hinges do no look very 30's, and there is too little curvature on the real deck where the body meets the fender, but for the asking price of around £15,000, it does look like a good basis on which to build a replica. Any views around here, from seasoned prewar MB experts? Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello everyone. On the subject of replicas, I have come across someone in Poland who builds spezial roadster and cabriolet A bodies out of steel. They weigh about 600 kg, and he claims they are dimensionally accurate, being based on original technical drawings. There are some pictures on this link:

http://www.aukcjoner.pl/gallery/012853692-7.html#I7

Now the bonnet hinges do no look very 30's, and there is too little curvature on the real deck where the body meets the fender, but for the asking price of around £15,000, it does look like a good basis on which to build a replica. Any views around here, from seasoned prewar MB experts? Thanks.

There are so many incorrect aspects I wouldn't know where to start. It is better perhaps than the old Marlene and Thoroughbred kit cars, but my opinion is he does a fair job just shooting from the hip based on photos.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 year ago that body was sold for 50K euro

so someone might be trying to sale only photos :)

Hello everyone. On the subject of replicas, I have come across someone in Poland who builds spezial roadster and cabriolet A bodies out of steel. They weigh about 600 kg, and he claims they are dimensionally accurate, being based on original technical drawings. There are some pictures on this link:

http://www.aukcjoner.pl/gallery/012853692-7.html#I7

Now the bonnet hinges do no look very 30's, and there is too little curvature on the real deck where the body meets the fender, but for the asking price of around £15,000, it does look like a good basis on which to build a replica. Any views around here, from seasoned prewar MB experts? Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
One more 320 Cab F was found

[ATTACH=CONFIG]296986[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]296987[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]296988[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]296989[/ATTACH]

Looking at the buildings in the background and the Red lada parked there ,i am guessing this car was retrieved from somewhere in the former Soviet union?

;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you talking about the Mayfair? Generally the English bodies don't do as well as the catalog bodies. I think it is not bad looking but the right hand drive is never popular with our German (or American) friends.
unless it's a pre1960 Alfa,lancia etc ...:D
Link to post
Share on other sites

Which museum boasts a collection of 16 Kompressor Mercedes comprising 2 400K, 2 630K, 3 SSK/710 SS, 2 500K, 3 540K, and 4 770 including a chassis? The museum also has the actual Mercedes G4 used by Hitler when he entered Austria, and an incredible collection of steam locomotives, airplanes, main battle tanks and organs. It's also the only spot on earth where you are likely to see Concorde and the supersonic Tupolev TU-144 together.

Answer: The Auto & Technik museum in Sinsheim, Germany, located between Mannheim and Stuttgart. Well worth a detour even if you live half-way around the world. Here are some photos of my recent trip there to feast your eyes.

https://www.pinterest.com/saderca/auto-technik-museum-sinsheim/

Edited by HispanoSuiza (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not all of these are the real deal (SSK, 540K Special Roadster) but the collection is still one of the best worldwide. Most of these cars are in "driver" condition, no concours bling bling. But much better than the cars in the Molsheim Bugatti museum.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Which museum boasts a collection of 16 Kompressor Mercedes comprising 2 400K, 2 630K, 3 SSK/710 SS, 2 500K, 3 540K, and 4 770 including a chassis? The museum also has the actual Mercedes G4 used by Hitler when he entered Austria, and an incredible collection of steam locomotives, airplanes, main battle tanks and organs. It's also the only spot on earth where you are likely to see Concorde and the supersonic Tupolev TU-144 together.

Answer: The Auto & Technik museum in Sinsheim, Germany.

My understanding is the "low door" Special Roadster is rebodied from a limousine, which I thought would have been called a 500K, but maybe the put a 500K body on a 540K chassis? They have a Cab B and Cab C I know. What are the other two 500/540K's there?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

The issue with the Mayfair is trying to tell a RHD car in the U.S. American buyers will discount it and the euro exchange was not helping. Also the 1980s Red does not help these days. Otherwise I thought an attractive car that probably should pull the 1+ estimate if it was sold over in England.

The Cab A that RM is selling will probably do very well. I would expect numbers in the 2.5 plus range or more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The issue with the Mayfair is trying to tell a RHD car in the U.S. American buyers will discount it and the euro exchange was not helping. Also the 1980s Red does not help these days. Otherwise I thought an attractive car that probably should pull the 1+ estimate if it was sold over in England.

The Cab A that RM is selling will probably do very well. I would expect numbers in the 2.5 plus range or more.

I agree re RHD. The Mayfair just sold 7 months ago for $825K in Monterey. Did they really think they would get more at Amelia Island? Crazy. I watched parts of the auction. There were a lot of no sales and cars that sold well under the low estimate. Just my opinion from watching the majors for the past several years, but I don't think Bonham's auctioneers are nearly as good as RM and Gooding at keeping bidding going. RM's "Maximum Max" is probably the best, and it doesn't hurt he speaks several languages.

Bonham's will get two more shots in Stuttgart - yet another Cab A, and a 770 Cab D.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The other thing is that the 500k/540k chassis is probably the only one I can think of where having a coachbuilt body by anybody other than the factory actually hurts the value.

Agreed as to most non-Sindelfingen bodies, but I don't think the Erdmann & Rossi bodies would suffer in value. There was also a Saoutchik that might command a premium, the Mayfair roadster (not to be confused with the plain tourer) is stunning, and the Vanvooren coupe falls narrowly short of the Sindelfingen coupe with the rear spats. But you are right, I can't think of another factory that was consistently as good as or better than the premium coachbuilders. Rolls-Royce farmed their best stuff out, didn't they? It always irks me when journalists write about the great coachbuilders and completely overlook Sindelfingen just because it was a factory operation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The Cab A that RM is selling will probably do very well. I would expect numbers in the 2.5 plus range or more.

The Cab A sold for $3,025,000, nearly double the last sale (that I know of) of this car in 2006. RM's estimate seemed to be closer to reality than Bonham's were earlier this week. Ferarri's continue to hit it out of the park.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody would ever say the boys at RM don't know what they are doing and this just reinforces the idea that the factory bodies bring the dough. I can see that I won't be stepping up to a Cab A any time soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...