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PreWar Mercedes Benz


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A.J. - on another thread you mention how their has not been a bonified discovery of an unknown Duesy "J" in 50 years - just curious if that is the case with prewar Classic MB? Are they a little too numerous (in general terms) and spread out across the world to make that same statement, or is their a cluster of experts who know the whereabouts of these cars?

For example, is the project Dragone is working on a "known car"?

BTW - the 4 door version is a very attractive car indeed.

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Duesys are far better documented than pre-war MBs as far as surviving examples. I'd guess that even of the supercharged 8s - i.e. 380, 500 & 540K - still one of two 'unknown' cars show up each year. Naturally, since many of these were delivered new in Germany and then stolen after WWII, quite a lot re-appeared after the fall of the iron curtain. Though some striking examples were smuggled out well before that point (as were the Auto Union racers for example).

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Agreed. Just by numbers, there was more than twice as many 540k + 500k + 380 MB built than Duesenberg Model J. Throw in a war and the USSR the cars were not tracked the way the Model J Duesenberg has been.

The 320 was a car for the upper middle class (although at 6k+ in the U.S.A not cheap) and made in greater numbers. There could be many undiscovered or untracked 320 cars.

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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Agree. I almost emailed you the link directly when I got my daily update from C&SC this morning, but figured it could ruin one's breakfast and I did not want to do that to you.... :D

Also figured I would let others weigh in but my 2 cents, I don't care if I had to hold the car for 10 years, I would do that to find the correct drivetrain. Barring that, I would come close and do the car in period. But that's just my two cents, gents.. ;)

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Prices have certainly gone up in the last 10 years. I remember when that was a 900k car not too many years ago. I can't decide if I like the 500k Cab A or the first version of the 540k Cab A better.

This particular car looks great with the painted wheels and lack of circus wagon white walls.

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As contrast to that '540K' coming up for auction, I find the 500K Cabriolet A that Gooding&Co is presenting at Scottsdale absolutely stunning.

1935 Mercedes-Benz 500 K Cabriolet A | Gooding and Company

[ATTACH=CONFIG]168889[/ATTACH]

The body of this car and the 1928 - 1934 SS are very similar, in fact, nearly identical, though the SS had 3 exhausts. I wonder how much was adapted and more of the story.

Edited by Skip Jordan (see edit history)
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This is a second (and final) catalogue version of the 540K Special Roadster, apparently pictured at the Vintage Car Store in Nyack, NY in the 60ies. Surprisingly theres a virtually identical car but in dark colors pictured in Melin II at the same location. Maybe this is the same car after a first restoration?! Quite a coincidence to see more than one of those rare birds in the same place in that timeframe....there are certainly no more than a handful of this version around today. Does someone know what became of this car?

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Stole these from another forum ^^. Pics showing a quite derelict 540K Cab A RHD ~ 1936 apparently just after having been pulled from a barn in the UK ca. late 70ies - early 80ies. Maybe someone knows S/N?!

There are only a few (if not 2) of these with right hand drive. One was originally owned by the Sultan of Johor which was restored in Dark blue with white interior and a 500k engine. Later updated with gray interior and a dark boot (roof). The other was restored in two shades of brown and was offered 10 or so years ago. Does it look like this car has an engine in it? Perhaps it is the Johor car.

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This is a second (and final) catalogue version of the 540K Special Roadster, apparently pictured at the Vintage Car Store in Nyack, NY in the 60ies. Surprisingly theres a virtually identical car but in dark colors pictured in Melin II at the same location. Maybe this is the same car after a first restoration?! Quite a coincidence to see more than one of those rare birds in the same place in that timeframe....there are certainly no more than a handful of this version around today. Does someone know what became of this car?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]174853[/ATTACH]

This car was briefly owned by a close family friend in the 1960s. He had paid 6500.00 for it in Nyack and found it to be mechanically poor so it was returned after a few weeks. He did offer it to my dad for that price but he passed because they were all in agreement it was a lemon.

As for the color, it is possible this car was repainted in black. The pictures I have of it show black, or perhaps they had 2 of these for sale in the early/mid 60s, one in a light color and one in black. That seems unlikely given how few were built.

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Good call on the Jahore car, I do remember I read it showed up without its engine at the time, the car in the photos is missing at least the exhaust pipes so it may very well be that car. As for the photos of the 540K in NY you mentioned, care to post them? I have only seen the one in Melins book, the car is identified with S/N there and looks a bit beat up but certainly very original. Unfortunately it doesnt re-appear in the chapter dealing with the surviving cars so it may have been scrapped later but who knows.

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I have 2 pictures of it in black circa 1965 or so. I'll see if I can remember to copy one next time I'm at my garage. There is no way this car was scrapped as it had made it into the 1960s as a running driving car in the U.S.A

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There was a short article in our MBCA Westchester/CT newsletter noting that Dragone here in Bridgeport, CT is in the process of restoring a 380, and the car is supposedly a local CT barnfind. They included a couple pictures which I am trying to get electronically from the editor to post here. Nothing on Dragone's site but if I can get any additional info to share I will post it. I would not imagine that many MB on Classic chassis left undocumented, although this car may likely be known already.

They finished cleaning up the car and I believe it is sold. It was a one off Sindelfingen bodied 320. This was basically the 320N short chassis Cab A body on a long chassis with the combination coupe top on it. A very attractive car that Manny got a ton of money for. It has been in Conn for 50 years or so.

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Good call on the Jahore car, I do remember I read it showed up without its engine at the time, the car in the photos is missing at least the exhaust pipes so it may very well be that car. As for the photos of the 540K in NY you mentioned, care to post them? I have only seen the one in Melins book, the car is identified with S/N there and looks a bit beat up but certainly very original. Unfortunately it doesnt re-appear in the chapter dealing with the surviving cars so it may have been scrapped later but who knows.

My "archives" are a mess. I didn't have a lot of time and could not find the originals. I have 2 or 3 Polaroids taken in Massachuetts in 1965. The car only stayed for a few weeks before it was returned to NY. I do have a picture of it on the wall, which is an enlarged scan of one of the Polaroids so it is not that great to begin with, never mind using my phone to capture through the glass of the frame.post-31305-14314173767_thumb.jpg

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Question: I am confused about conflicting information regarding Lauren's Count Trossi SSK and The Black Prince. Are they one and the same? I've found pictures identified as The Black Prince that differ from the Trossi pictures (different fender treatments, mostly), and the Lauren book doesn't use the term "Black Prince," nor does the information at Paul Russell's website. Hard to find authoritative answers on this one.

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Skip, I believe they are the same. Sometimes they are restored to a particular period in their history and other times there are liberties taken during the restoration that may account for differences in the photos.

Question: I am confused about conflicting information regarding Lauren's Count Trossi SSK and The Black Prince. Are they one and the same? I've found pictures identified as The Black Prince that differ from the Trossi pictures (different fender treatments, mostly), and the Lauren book doesn't use the term "Black Prince," nor does the information at Paul Russell's website. Hard to find authoritative answers on this one.
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This MB 500 K was gifted to the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum of the Western Reserve Historical Society in Cleveland by Walter Halle sometime in the 60's. Halle owned a large department store in downtown Cleveland. He bought the car in Europe sometime after WW II. He also had a green gullwing MB which he also donated to the museum which they still have. This car sold for 600K in November 1990 at a controversial auction the museum had. I believe it went to Switzerland at that time. It was largely original, but had been repainted, probably in Europe before Halle bought it. It had the original gas cap & hood ornament on it at one point, but they were stolen from the museum. I can't find the auction catalog now, but in it were the numbers off the car. Does anyone know where this car is today or have a recent picture of it? Hopefully it's not red or silver with chrome wheels and whitewalls.

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Edited by K8096 (see edit history)
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I am looking to buy a set of 17" wire wheels correct for the mid-1930's MB 500K/540K cars. Any condition. Any leads appreciated (other than Wagner and Dayton). Thanks.

I believe I do have some ware contact info for reproduced in Europe let me know if you need that contact

David

4146302853

or email Davlet145(at)gmail.com

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’34 500K Roadster for sale. Danish nobility-owned. 20 yrs in Euro museum. Superb fit/finish, metal body, f’glas fenders w/ metal frame, bumpers, lights, interior, etc. Add your chassis. $3 million look for $45K. Photos and info: StevieRay.com/500K.htm

Oh boy--a $45.000 kit car, maybe I can just scrach up the pieces whereever cheaper--ill check the speedway cataloge!

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Oh boy--a $45.000 kit car, maybe I can just scrach up the pieces whereever cheaper--ill check the speedway cataloge!

I thought it was a pretty good deal for someone. The body is dimensionally correct, made in aluminum and would be at least twice as much to fabricate.

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Oh boy--a $45.000 kit car, maybe I can just scrach up the pieces whereever cheaper--ill check the speedway cataloge!

Prescott is entitled to his opinion, but "replica" does not necessarily mean "kit." This body was not built from a kit but is a one-off body, handmade by expert craftsmen to exacting dimensions, using some original parts. The headlights alone are worth $5K. I think it is significant that the buyer is a car builder and classic car restorer who intends to make a tidy profit. By the time he is finished, it will likely be a $200K car, much like the Sbarro cars that have recently brought that much. Even a 540K replica with a 100% fiberglass body, Ford suspension and 450SL engine sold for $400K a few years ago. Prescott, best of luck, and I look forward to photos of whatever car you put together on your budget. But I think your comment is tantamount to equating Paul Russell with a collission repair center. <label for="rb_iconid_12">icon12.png</label>

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That 540K Vanden Plas mentioned in another thread sold yesterday for about $904,000. They had been asking $100K more before the auction. I think the price reflects that it is not one of the better body styles, imho.

I personally like the Sindelfingen catalog bodies better. The market tends to reward the Sindelfingen bodies too, unless the outside coachbuilder really created something special.

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Sounds like a pretty interesting project. Hope to see some pics of the progress. A period color is a very good idea. Tough to tell in the pic you posted of the roadster body you sold, and it will likely be painted, but the only criticism I would have had from a distance is it looked like a metallic color in the pic, still stunning, though.

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Sounds like a pretty interesting project. Hope to see some pics of the progress. A period color is a very good idea. Tough to tell in the pic you posted of the roadster body you sold, and it will likely be painted, but the only criticism I would have had from a distance is it looked like a metallic color in the pic, still stunning, though.

I am finding it difficult to locate non-metallic burgundy paint samples to choose from. Even PPG could not supply me with any. Blue I have figured out if I go that route.

Can anyone recommend concours-quality automotive painters in Texas, or the Southwest?

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My "archives" are a mess. I didn't have a lot of time and could not find the originals. I have 2 or 3 Polaroids taken in Massachuetts in 1965. The car only stayed for a few weeks before it was returned to NY. I do have a picture of it on the wall, which is an enlarged scan of one of the Polaroids so it is not that great to begin with, never mind using my phone to capture through the glass of the frame.

Regarding the Special Roadster that came out of Nyak. I talked to my dad about this the other night and he clarified the story for me. Ted Billings owned the car for approx 3 months before it went back. Ted owned a restoration shop and they were working on it constantly to keep it running. My dad said it was a real lemon and Ted eventually sent it back and got a refund on his 6500.00

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We have a dark maroon color that we used on a 38 Packard Derham which is non metallic. It took us months to perfect it, but I think it turned out very nice and period correct. Send it up to Illinois and we will paint it for you! I have seen two burgundy/maroon special roadsters and they look great. Dave packard12s@hotmail.com

Dave, is there a URL where I can see photos of this car/color?

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