Dave Henderson Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Here's another teaser. Believe it or not, this customization was done by a once highly respected full custom body builder. Who? Pictures (sorry they are so lousy) were taken in Arlington, Va. decades ago. Is there a remote possibility it still exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 George Barris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Not Barris. The firm that turned out this "mangled mopar" ('50's Chrysler) was noted for its renditions of some big league marques during the classic era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Sorry, but not really sure why a customized car is being discussed here. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CarAdMan Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Brewster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Susan, I think custom cars can be within the realm of AACA. How about Darrin Packards, the Brooks Stevens L29 Cord currently being discussed, the Brewster V8 Fords and Brunn Buicks, and so on. I thought it would interest some viewers to find out just which company, one that turned out classic era custom bodied cars, was responsible for what I think most of us perceive to be a very over the top rear end styling job. Perhaps they enjoy being challenged and maybe just the suspense of it all too. If other viewers object to this post I will no doubt be hearing from them also.Ad Man, it's not Brewster. Keep trying. Edited January 3, 2011 by Dave Henderson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Derham in Pennsylvania worked all the way up into the 1970s ~~~Bowman & Schwartz in Ca. would be my guess here however !They made some very strange coachwork ! Edited January 3, 2011 by Silverghost (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sorry, but not really sure why a customized car is being discussed here. :confused:The firm that turned out this "mangled mopar" ('50's Chrysler) was noted for its renditions of some big league marques during the classic era.You gonna tell a Full Classic owner with custom coachwork he can't come to AACA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 You gonna tell a Full Classic owner with custom coachwork he can't come to AACA?Certainly if the vehicle falls within the guidelines set forth by the AACA for such vehicles they would be welcome. Here are the guidelines as stated in the 2010 Judges Guidelines on page 19. The 2011 Guidelines are not yet available.5. NON-AUTHENTIC BODIES a. Vehicles with bodies that have beenaltered or newly manufactured that differin style and appearance from theoriginal body fitted on the chassis atthe time it was purchased new by theoriginal owner will be considered NONAUTHENTIC.Vehicles fitted with such bodies will be subject to a 40 point mandatorydeduction. b. Exceptions: 1. Precise identical duplicationof a completebody or any part of the vehicle’soriginal body, as fitted to the chassisof the originalvehiclewhen purchasednew by the originalowneris acceptable, provided such duplicationis reasonably requiredby theabsence, destruction,or deteriorationbeyondrepair.This would also includethe duplication of a “First” body, suppliedby a recognized outside sourceto a vehicle that was originally offeredas “Chassisonly”. Such an examplewould be the Commercial and StationWagon bodies mounted on the FordModel T Chassis. 2. A vehicle rebodied by a recognizedbody builder during the era contemporarywith the period that the vehicle was originallymanufactured. (Example: Classiccars rebodied during the Classic era by a recognizedbody builder.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Susan, thanks for highlighting exception 2. I believe it may have application in this case. Silverghost, it wasn't Bohman and Schwartz or Derham. Hint; it was done on another continent. Now go for it! Edited January 3, 2011 by Dave Henderson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The rear looks like Ghia to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Spohn of Germany. They did a number of cars with similarly-bizarre rear ends.TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JR Cars Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm going with Spohn as well. What they did to a Veritas was criminal! Most of these customs were created for U.S. Armed servicemen stationed in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Susan, thanks for highlighting exception 2. I believe it may have application in this case. ..... No problem. If that car, or any vehicle, meets the criteria to be shown at an AACA meet then it is acceptable without issue. I have just seen the subject of non-authentic/non-AACA approved modifications being talked about more and more here, over let's say the last couple of years. And it is being done by folks that want us to bend the rules here so that they can do it their way and they want us to tell them it is okay. It is their vehicle, they can do what they want to it. But we are not the club for them with that kind of vehicle. There are plenty of clubs where modified vehicles are welcome. The AACA mission is to preserve vehicles as they could have come from the factory. And to be a club for folks that want to support than mission within the guidelines set forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 And one wonders why old car clubs have problems keeping members. I have been a member off and on (mostly on) for 30 plus years and I sure don't have an issue with this thread. It is all the fabric of the old car hobby. Susan, lighten up and enjoy the hobby for what it is. I don't think the AACA is going to crumble to the ground because of this thread or any like it. Your attitude turns prospective members off. It only helps to convey the long held thought that the AACA was a cold elitist club. I am a purist to the core, but I sure can enjoy a thread like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 This brings up an interesting question. If a new or late model car, say a 1951 Buick, were taken to a well known coachbuilder known for their full custom bodies like Spohn or Coachcraft, would that be accepted today as an original? What about a 1951 Chrysler Imperial limousine modified by Derham to a customer's order, before it was delivered? Do you draw the line of what is customized, and what is a custom body by whether the car was modified before, or shortly after delivery?How about a car like the Sam Barris 49 Mercury? He bought the car new and chopped the top shortly after he took delivery. It would be a crime to "restore" such a car to its unmodified state. The same could be said of cars modified for racing that are now historical artifacts.This does not go for old cars recently modified. I suppose it goes by the history of the car. The more history, and the longer the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Its just a picture of a car customized many years ago,its not like someone is asking if they should do it to some car they just bought. I could say more but will bite my tongue this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Pininfarina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 YES! It's Spohn. Good going. After WWII they resumed coachbuilding, "catering mostly to american GI's" according to the Spohn write-up in SIA #20 of Jan-Feb '74. Here's a picture of the car, "Le Centaur" when it was freshly done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I should probably bite my tongue(or my fingers)too, but I agree with susan. When we bow to pressure and let a few hot rods in with strict guidelines then they allow a radically chopped 34 Ford 3 window coupe that raced in the 50s in as the inside back cover car of the current issue of "Antique Automobile". Where does it end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I should probably bite my tongue(or my fingers)too, but I agree with susan. When we bow to pressure and let a few hot rods in with strict guidelines then they allow a radically chopped 34 Ford 3 window coupe that raced in the 50s in as the inside back cover car of the current issue of "Antique Automobile". Where does it end?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm with Susan and Dave. Once a foot gets in the door it's all over. I belonged to a club that was specifically set up for the "purest" back in 1976. The local chapter of that club has at least 75% modified cars in it today. I'm with AACA now because of it. I do have some modified cars, but this is not the place for it.Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 So, the car was modified by Spohn, a respected German coachbuilder, when a year or 2 old. How does this differ from a Darrin Packard that was modified from an assembly line Packard coupe to order?There must be other "full classics" that were modified into their present state when they were late model used cars. How about the Mormon Meteor, used to set a record at Bonneville with its Duesenberg engine, then repowered with a Curtis Conqueror for further speed record work, and eventually rebuilt for road use with a Duesenberg engine, either the original or a replacement.You may turn up your nose at such a car and refuse to give it room in your garage but I wouldn't.I am trying to emphasize the difference between a car that was modified when new or close to new, and one that was put together recently.To me there is not that much difference between a car that had its body modified or custom built before it was delivered new, and one that was modified shortly afterwards. The quality of the work should count, and the history of the car as well. To dismiss a car as worthless because it was modified shortly after delivery instead of shortly before, seems to me to be splitting hairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 By the way, the Spohn built Chrysler that started this thread? I think it looks like hell. But that doesn't take away from its build quality or its historical significance. I think it deserves to be preserved as a historical relic of a specific time and place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 .....You may turn up your nose at such a car and refuse to give it room in your garage but I wouldn't. .....I can only speak for myself here, but I am not saying I would personally turn up my nose at such a car. I have admired many vehicles of all kinds over the years. Some more to my personal taste than others, as I suspect many here would feel the same way, but that doesn't stop me from appreciating a well done job on a restoration or maintaining an orginal condition vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The point I am making is the car was done (however tastelessly) by a known and respected coachbuilder, as were many full classics over the years. Not like it's a backyard hack job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) 2. A vehicle rebodied by a recognizedbody builder during the era contemporarywith the period that the vehicle was originallymanufactured. (Example: Classiccars rebodied during the Classic era by a recognizedbody builder.)There's no slippery slope here, as Spohn was a "recognized" builder, and the cars' re-bodies were "contemporary." Should be the end of the discussion, unless someone wants to affect a rules change.Also, there's no argument that a closed Duesenberg re-bodied as a Derham Tourster (or other open model) in the '50'-60's would not qualify. Neither should any of the Fran Roxas Packard and Duesey re-bodied creations. But here's an interesting question...what about a body, built in the Classic Era, ? Just curious.TG Edited January 4, 2011 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belvedere Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Why is no one complaining about all of the street rod and "resto-mod" photos in this Forum's Gallery? This is AACA, and if we don't recognize or appreciate these vehicles as a club, why do we embrace them in pictures? It is misleading to any visitors to this Forum and their understanding as to the mission of AACA.Mr. Moderator, I don't enjoy recently modified vehicles on the any showfield, and question why they are pictured here. As to the vehicle that started this thread, yes it IS ugly (to me), but if constructed by a respected customizer in the '50's, is historically significant. It most likely no longer exists, so we most won't need to "bend any rules". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Why is no one complaining about all of the street rod and "resto-mod" photos in this Forum's Gallery? This is AACA, and if we don't recognize or appreciate these vehicles as a club, why do we embrace them in pictures? It is misleading to any visitors to this Forum and their understanding as to the mission of AACA.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Some of us have complained, but the cars are continually being posted, plus the ones already up remain.Don Edited January 4, 2011 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The Antique Automobile Club of America discussion forum is a FREE online community for those interested in exchanging information about ALL antique, classic, and collectible automobiles. AACA membership IS NOT required to register. Explore, read, contribute, and enjoy!Some of you guys missed the main message posted above when you registered to use this web site! This site is dedicated to everyone enjoying automobiles of all kinds. Yes, some members have modified cars, but if we share our love for antique cars, we may entice those modified owners to join our ranks too. We must keep an open mind and welcome everyone with automotive interests!Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 THANK YOU Wayne. But, where does one find that paragraph? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ken bogren Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 THANK YOU Wayne. But, where does one find that paragraph? BenThere may be more places, but one place is right under the photos on the forum home page. In the "Welcome" message.http://forums.aaca.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Just log out on this page, Ben. It will then be right at the top of the page!Sorry, you have to click on "Home Page", as Ken said and it's at the top!Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The Antique Automobile Club of America discussion forum is a FREE online community for those interested in exchanging information about ALL antique, classic, and collectible automobiles. AACA membership IS NOT required to register. Explore, read, contribute, and enjoy!Some of you guys missed the main message posted above when you registered to use this web site! This site is dedicated to everyone enjoying automobiles of all kinds. Yes, some members have modified cars, but if we share our love for antique cars, we may entice those modified owners to join our ranks too. We must keep an open mind and welcome everyone with automotive interests!WayneWell stated Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yup, found it. One doe's have to be 'logged out' as Wayne stated. Thanks Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 If we can make a thread out of a post about a photoshop stretched 1934 Pierce Arrow concept car (that never existed), what is wrong with this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillOutThere Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 You want to know why EVERY antique car organization is shrinking? Read this thread. \Clubs get like government and they want to be more controlling and exclude those who don't fit their tight little rule and agendas. And then there are the people who respond to threads and don't read what has already been posted. The SPOHN answer had been posted and people continued to post wrong answers afterword. Is that dumb or what?And several are showing total ignorance of one of Europe's finest body builders; Spohn of Ravensburg, Germany who bodied new chassis for Horch, BMW, Maybach, Mercedes and others. The Veritas BMWs mentioned included one with the GM /Earl LeSabre fins but Spohn did at least a dozen more bodies on Veritas without the fins. Yes, the Chrysler that started all this was not particularly attractive. Spohn had a book of styling tricks that the customer could choose from. The owner of the stodgy Chrysler had poor taste in his choices. Don't blame Spohn. Don't blame Chrysler.Like belly buttons, we all have opinions. THAT's mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I am a purist, when it come to anything with history. As most of you already know, I am fairly new to this hobby. When I joined up, ALL of you made me feel right at home, and I thank you all for that. I have never liked hot-rods, or any modifications to a vehicle. That being said, I have no problems reading a thread like this one. I understand where Susan and the others are coming from. I kind of feel the same way, but it goes a bit deeper.This site is dedicated to everyone enjoying automobiles of all kinds. Yes, some members have modified cars, but if we share our love for antique cars, we may entice those modified owners to join our ranks too. We must keep an open mind and welcome everyone with automotive interests!WayneI would like to elaborate a bit on what Mr Burgess posted. I remember sometime last year, there was a person who posted that they wanted to make some changes to their old car that they had just obtained, and was asking for opinions. Well, the way it finally turned out, he decided to restore his car to its original state. The more others posted about how nice it would look original, the more excited the owner got on his future restoration. This person could have gotten turned off by the Purist, but instead, he was won over by reading the kind opinions of others. So, we added another to our ranks.Sometimes, if a person is only around those that LIKE the modified vehicles, this is what they will want to do. BUT, if they see the other side, and get to know those who restore to original, then they too may have a different view of seeing things. I just wish I could remember the original poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 First of all, merely noting the existence of a car and asking questions about it's origins do not constitute a request for recognition of it by this or any other club. My automotive knowledge, for one, is richer for having the experience. (And I count myself among the purest of the purists here.)Just as importantly, I think it's pretty clear that (as per the rule noted by Susan in her post) if someone were to find this car and want to display it at an AACA event, it should be welcome. As a period modified car by a recognized coachbuilder, it is no different than Barry's Continental Mark II convertible, not to mention many Full Classics and nearly every prototype car and professional vehicle ever so displayed. Even the preponderance unattractive 1950s custom doesn't exactly make that car era unique. The 1980s had dozens of similar coachbuilt cars that were(IMHO) in questionable taste. See:PistonHeads Headlines - Coachbuilt Beasts From The Decade Taste ForgotONE OFF COACHBUILT SPECIAL SOLD (1985) on Car And Classic UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ken bogren Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It seems to me that the car shown in the first post in this thread is at least as worthy of being discussed here as those in the http://forums.aaca.org/f169/photo-without-caption-7-9-11-a-307420.html threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I wish you had not directed me there. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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