Custom bodied Packards

[K8096]

I bet this Rollson has a more precisely built body than its Darrin counterparts.

[Owen_Dyneto]

1934 Eight by Graber. Said to be on the 1102 chassis. Also, though I've previously given the link to it on the PAC forum, here also is one of many photos of a 35 1201 by Graber. Grabers seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately!

Edited December 23, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[trimacar]

K8096, I would agree with you on the Darrin build quality (or lack thereof). While beautiful cars, the bodies were cobbled together to look good from the outside. I reupholstered one, and if you made a panel for one side (door or inner quarter), it was completely different from the other side, with some dimensions off up to an inch!! And, with upholstery out, you can see the sloppy welds and quicky construction.

What pretty cars, though. I've twice had a chance to buy a Darrin at fair market value (back when they were 40K or so for a nice car), and passed both times....silly me....

[Dave Mitchell]

Wow, that Graber convertible sedan is great, I like it better than the victorias - very elegant and the design works well with the Packard front clip - every bit as good as a Maybach. Where is that car? Do you remember the silver LeBaron sport brougham from when Dick Haeberle owned it?

[Dave Mitchell]

The Rollston landaulet is really interesting and looks to be nicely restored. I haven't seen it in person, but the wrong front bumper guards are a little jarring. That said, I really like 38/39s, and I like to see the customs on those chassis also.

[Dave Mitchell]

When I met Chris Bohman, he told me that they did a fair amount of work for customers who bought Darrins and needed to have them fixed so that the doors stayed closed going over railroad tracks and other pesky details like that. They also built similar body styles for people who wanted better quality. That said, I think that the best looking Darrins are the Hollywood cars.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The 38 Rollston V-12 belongs to a RI collector dealer and it is a very nicely restored car. The interior is pretty cool, he sets the bar up when displaying the car. Apparently this car belonged to Doris Duke, considered in her day to be "the richest girl in the world" Google W. Shappy Classic Cars to see some cool high end stuff even if not all Packards. Be sure to check out the "projects" section - I think there is a page devoted to this car among others.

Dave, I would love a 38-39 closed V-12 or maybe a 38 super 8 someday...

Edited December 23, 2010 by Steve_Mack_CT
added info (see edit history)

[Owen_Dyneto]

A few more. 1933 Twelve by Fernandez & Darrin, this one also a Jersey car and well-known and often written about and seen at CCCA events. Also a 1934 Eight by Glaser of Germany (Zeiss Ikon headlamps if I remember correctly) and a 1938 Eight by Mayfair - a bit awkward-looking IMO. Photos by this writer and all taken at the Packard Centennial in Warren OH in 1999.

[alsancle]

When I was at Tom Mix's, he had photo albums of some of the hundreds of cars that he had owned and it was truly amazing. One that I have never heard of surviving was a 32 Twin Six vee windshield Deitrich runabout/coupe roadster. It must be out there somewhere. I think he owned it in the 50s or 60s.

Perhaps this is the one owned by "Doc" Clemens for many many years. Doc only had it out a few times in the last 40 years and never at a show. It's back in hiding as far as I know. Although Doc was from NY, he kept all his cars in Westborough Mass right down the road from Tom Mix.

[alsancle]

I bet this Rollson has a more precisely built body than its Darrin counterparts.

The Darrin's built at Connersville were fine however the ones from Hollywood, maybe not so much.

[K8096]

Now this car is interesting. This car was in Ohio for the late 1950's until about 10 - 12 years ago when it was sold out to the West Coast. The guy who had it always referred to it as a Kellner body. But when you look at it, there's really nothing European about it. He bought it this way in the late 1950's. It was painted a darker color at the time. One dealer who had it said the CCCA Classification Committee accepted the car and said it could possibly be a Rollston. There was a green restored 1937 Packard Super Eight Rollston phaeton at the Warren 1999 meet and the body on it looked nothing like this car. Some of us have hypothosized the following: The body was originally on a 1933 or 1934 Packard chassis, and after 3 or 4 years the owner had a new chassis ordered and this body installed with some alterations to the front doors and winshield areas. The windshield frame almost looks stock 1937 Packard senior convertible, and the rear 1/2 of the body looks like a stock 1933/34 Packard phaeton. I'm not knocking the car at all, but it's just not a Rollston in any sense of the word. I'm wondering if the cowl and windshield posts are stock 1937 Packard convertible, the front doors altered to fit the cowl, and the rest of the body stock 1933/34 Packard phaeton.

Edited December 24, 2010 by K8096 (see edit history)

[K8096]

This is a Brewster body on a 1937 Super Eight chassis.

[K8096]

Looks like a 1939 Rollson. Hey Dave, check out the front bumper guards. Same as the ones you didn't like on the other car.

[K8096]

Derham

[K8096]

Dietrich.

[K8096]

Dietrich. This one will be restored someday. It was sold new in Puerto Rico but is back in the states now.

Edited December 24, 2010 by K8096 (see edit history)

[K8096]

Brunn

[Dave Mitchell]

The bumper guards on the 39 Rollson in the auction photo may be correct - they are the 2 bar type, but the 3 bar ones look like 41/2 juniors.

It would be fun to see the LeBaron conv victoria done someday - last I heard the price was over $2 million and it needs to be restored.

[Dave Mitchell]

The Derham and Dietrich are both good looking sedans. I have a photo of a Waterhouse Twin Six sedan - I will see if I can find it and post it.

[West Peterson]

LeBaron. This one will be restored someday. It was sold new in Puerto Rico but is back in the states now.

That's not LeBaron, it's Dietrich. It''s been sold and is in the throws of an "all hands on deck" restoration.

[pepcak]

1928 533 Brozik (Czechoslovakia) before and after....

[K8096]

Thanks for the correction West. I updated the original post. The pontoon fenders threw me.

[Owen_Dyneto]

I've lost some of the details on several of these. All photos but the big maroon Rollston were taken at the 1999 Centennial at Warren OH. One of the two early town cars was bodied by Kimball for Gen. Jack Pershing, though I don't recall which one. The maroon Rollston was photographed about a decade ago at the Burn Foundation Concours at Lehigh Univ. And though not a custom in the usual sense, the 1932 front-wheel drive V12 prototype is truly unique, owned then and still now (as far as I know) by Bob Bahre.

Hopefully some of you will be able to fill in the details I've forgotten.

[alsancle]

That's not LeBaron, it's Dietrich. It''s been sold and is in the throws of an "all hands on deck" restoration.

Given what the V12 Dietrichs are going for these days the 2 million unrestored price is in the ballpark, and since it's been sold I see someone else agreed.

[Owen_Dyneto]

I've just been reading an article with many photos, both at delivery, during restoration, and after restoration of a 1940 Packard 180 (1807) sport sedan by Rollson. The article appears in a copyrighted publication ( The Packard Cormorant, #54, Spring 1989) so let me just provide a link to one of the photos.

PackardClub.org • View topic - 1940 1807 sport sedan by Rollson

Edited December 24, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[alsancle]

PackardClub.org • View topic - 1940 1807 sport sedan by Rollson

Wow that's a nice looking car. I like the Darrin Sedan a lot but this might be better looking.

[Owen_Dyneto]

Glad you enjoyed it. Here's a picture from the PAC National this year at Gettysburg of Gene Tareshawty's Darrin sedan. Also a 1st Series (143) Eight by Fleetwood owned by Don Hansen.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)

[Owen_Dyneto]

A few more for those with an interest. The 1937 Junior (120) is a LeBaron, the former Ed Hermann restoration. A pair of 1940 Darrin convertible sedans, the gray one is perhaps the former Bill Hirsch car, photo at the 1999 Centennial, with an unfinished Darrin sedan to the right. The blue one is perhaps the Ralph Marano car. A rear view of the previously shown 1938 by Mayfair, photo taken at Stone Barn restoration shop. A 1938(?) Super Eight, perhaps by Rollston?. And a 1939 Twelve, perhaps by Brunn? I've forgotten the details on the last two and hope someone can fill in more information. All photos by this writer.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto
adding info. (see edit history)

[Guest 39Super8]

... A 1938(?) Super Eight, perhaps by Rollston?...

A '39 actually. Very interesting example. Thanks for sharing!

[Dave Mitchell]

West, who owns the 34 convertible victoria now and who is restoring it? Are they aiming for Pebble this year? It will be fun to see that car done.

[Dave Mitchell]

A 32 Twin Six in the snow. I think this is a Waterhouse, but I can't find the original photo with notes on the back.

[Dave Mitchell]

Brunn laudaulet town car

[alsancle]

A 32 Twin Six in the snow. I think this is a Waterhouse, but I can't find the original photo with notes on the back.

Have you ever seen a bad looking Waterhouse?

[West Peterson]

West, who owns the 34 convertible victoria now and who is restoring it? Are they aiming for Pebble this year? It will be fun to see that car done.

Dave

I don't know if I'm at liberty to say who bought it, but Dale Adams is doing the restoration.

[Owen_Dyneto]

I'm wondering if interest in this thread is waning, but I'll post a few more. A 1941 LeBaron limousine taken at Warren OH, argueably IMO the most stately of the just-prewar limos. A Derham 8th series roadster with a 9th series update kit as auctioned recently at Greenwich CT. I've marked it as an 845 on the back, don't know if that's correct. A 1934 LeBaron town car, #1108-56 at Automotive Restorations in NJ. And a 1937 Rollston taken at Warren in 2008. This was supposedly badly chopped into a hot rod and was in the midst of a long slow process of returning it to stock.

Is there any interest in the 34 LeBaron 1106s and 1108 phaeton? With about 6 or 7 of them in NJ plus some pictures I took at the Bahre collection some years back, I've got scads of photos of them. Let me know, please, if you're interested.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

For what it's worth, keep them coming Owen and others! I figure Dave gets the nod for best Packard thread of 2010 by far!

[West Peterson]

Dave

The "regular production" 1931 Packard Super Eight roadsters were on the 840 chassis. I don't know about the custom that you have pictured, I guess it could be an 845.

I like the car on the left of that photo!!!

[alsancle]

I stand corrected on the Connersville Darrins. I was talking to my dad last night about his car and he didn't think the build quality was that great. He said that the wheel wells had been hammered down (by hand with a hammer) so that the top boot would clear. There are a bunch of examples of this sort of workmanship in the car. I told him I thought the first 40s were built in Hollywood and that perhaps his was one of those but he felt they were all built at Connersville. I will say that his car does not rattle or shake and the doors have always fit well.

[K8096]

That red 1937 conv victioria at Warren a couple years ago pictures above is no Rollston. It's a 1935/1936 standard conv victoria body someone put on a 1937 chassis. The quarter windows were added long after the car was built. We were looking at it at the show (I saw it in person) and we thought they were 1950's GM. It seems like whenever someone has a late 1930's Packard with a screwed up body they just claim its a Rollston to get away with it. Compare this body with a stock 1935/36 body and its identical save for the quarter windows. 1935/36 Packard victorias had front opening doors, while in 1937 they switched to rear opening. (I hate the term suicide doors - so undignified.)

Edited December 27, 2010 by K8096 (see edit history)

[Owen_Dyneto]

K9086, I had the same questions when I looked at it, but took the owner's word for it's origins. You may very well be correct. I wish I had gotten the thief-proof number (body dash number) from it.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history)